I love Tbird as a player and believe that he is grossly underrated by many including blues supporters, but I am not sure that he has mentor / leadership qualities as his forte.

I am not a big fan of large leadership groups and my ideal is about 5 and I know that I am on the outside looking in and have no right to judge him, but I don't see what role he has to offer in the leadership group.

Im not to sure if i'd have Carrazzo in the leadership group. I think he may be forced out of the side if not this year, next

I'd like to see Simmo and Jammo as joint VC

I think he has put away his tendency to lose it over everything that doesn't go his way, and particularly last year, demonstrates a capacity to lead on field through his deeds.

Speaks well enough, keeps his nose clean, trains hard and would certainly be respected. Marshals the defence well enough too.

I'd name 6 players:

Judd
Simmo
Waite
McLean
T-Bird
Carrots

With apologies to Murphy (needs to round out his game), Gibbs, Kreuzer (leave them out of the centre of the politics for a little while yet), Jamo (unlucky) & Russell (probably needs another solid year to be considered but clearly can inspire his team mates).

Plenty of good eggs to balance out the faint smell of sulphur that still exists on the list.

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

C'mon, surely after all these years we can give Carrots a nomination for Vice-Captain

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

I think Jammo is the man tolead this cub one day, i see similarities to Tom Harley that he is not the best of players but a wise mature man with plenty of respect from everyone and may have onfield presence

..i agree with what yer sayin' but if the Hawks were sniffin', and offerin' him what he felt he was worth, then he'd not be gettin' overpaid.. ..in those days some senior players were on big salaries, and he mighta started feelin' short changed.. .... ..and in regards to his rebounding, alot of his hesitancy is because of lack of options up-field.. ..he won't just bang it on his boot and hope for the best, he'd rather retain possession.. ..he can move the ball quickly out of defence just as well as anyone, he's simply more cautious.. ..after the years of watchin' the ball rebound back over his head from sloppy/rushed attempts at getting rid of the ball [read - defensive unit] you can't blame him.. ..his last two seasons have been much better, and 2009 especially saw him become in my opinion, our best defender [don't consider waite a defender, though he can play the position well,, for me he's a natural fwd]..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

Judd
Simmo
TBird
Waite
Murphy
Scotland, or Hadley
McLean (possibly)
Gibbs or Russell, if they're ready.

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I absolutely love Carlton Football Club.


Rambo Robinson #12

Judd, Simmo, McLean and Waite are the definites.

Add one or two out of T-Bird, Murph and Russell for mine.

I don't get how some are naming Mclean ahead of Jammo, Murph, Gibbs and Thornton. The blokes been at the club 5 minutes and some have him ahead of blokes who been at this club that could potentially captain the club.

I think that you have under sold Carrazzo.

While we have been recruiting more quality mids that he will be competing spot with, he has improved his game every year that he has been at the club to the point that he now has very few flaws and still can find the footy better than anyone who could take his spot.

Not every player we recruit is going to be elite natural talent and that is why he should be in the leadership group, to show them that you can make it if you are prepared to work your arse off to get there. Remember leadership is an assessment of character, not skill

Went to a tops school as well.

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The only way for some people to understand is for them to be on the receiving end

Left wing moralists
In self serving denial
They shit me no end

..agreed, with an injury interrupted season Carrots still had a good, and influential season.. ..once again proved his versatility as a defensive forward capable of kicking crunch time goals.. ..very under-rated, and easily in our best 22 for years to come..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

Well,I disagree only because I think Jammo IS a great player.

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That’s not a political statement — it’s a harsh reality, and we must act,” she said. “He is a clear and present danger to the things that keep us strong and free. I support impeachment.”

Agree Steve. He is the second leader after Judd I think. He has overcome lots of rejections to become a solid player, is disciplined, determined, unselfish, doesn't seem to belong to cliques and I thought was good last year especially in some defensive forward roles. Seems mature, and he can put two words together reasonably articulately and without being a smart alec.

I was interested to not Fish was in the leadership group, which I first thought was a bad idea, but if he has the personal qualities the fact that he might be leading in the Ants mightn't be a bad thing, might help the group learn a bit of humility and work harder. I'd leave Murph, Gibbs and Big K out at this stage, although Big K would be my next captain (in some years time).

Jamo is a must for the leadership group, good head on his shoulders, mature, not dumb, can talk sensibly, qualities relatively rare at AFL level.

I disagree. I think come 2011 Carrots might be pushed aside by our emerging young talent - thought there were times last year that he was close to being dropped. Players like Yarran, Cachia, Davies, Lucas, Brown, Armfield, Tiller and Kerr will be pushing for selection and someones gotta be left out.

Carrots has been serviceable in a time of need and not much more (as harsh as it sounds). Now that we have depth and a bunch of promising young kids, i think the likes of Carrazzo, Scottland and Houlihan will finally be found out.

Im not trying to stir the pot here,

I just think that the likes of Scottland, Carrazzo, Wiggins and Houlihan don't offer us anything more than we've already seen. They've been around for some time now and every now and then you gotta change things up. Example; Michael Voss, now some may find his recruiting at the end of 2008 as over the top but what he's actually done is change the make up of the team by bringing in something different. They had to many of the same types and honestly were just as predictable as us. I don't see a problem with that at all and maybe its a step we need to take.

Maybe the Carrazzos, Scottlands, Walkers, Houlihans, Wiggins need to know what its like to be not guaranteed a spot each week, and the younger guys know if they perform they will get a gig.

Totally agree Steve and BKB!!!

Carrots is Tops

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When you're a Jet you're a Jet all the way!

I respect your opinion and get that you don't rate him, but of that list none have proven to be anything more than potential. Remember when carrots played in the Ants last year he was getting 40+ possessions in a game, showing clearly that he is above that level.

When these players that can perform to that level in the Ants, I will be happy for them to replace Carrazzo or whoever in the seniors, but they have to earn that spot and right now Carrazzo is quite a bit in front of them.

..in my opinion Carrots is our most complete midfielder, and our most versatile.... ..a v.good 'jack of all trades' type, excellent team player and no ego to get in the way of coaching instructions..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

I think we undersell the importance of any player at the club by saying he cannot be in the leadership group if he isn't in the senior team.

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

I agree with this. Along with Jamison, the best I've heard/read in interviews. Presents the club in a very positive light. The fact that both Carrazzo and Jamo are hard-working ex-rookies is a plus as well, I would have thought. I agree with those who argue that leadership is not about talent, but about character. Surely no one thinks Nick Maxwell is Collingwood's best player? Or Brett Kirk the Swans' best player?