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 Post subject: Re: Sakc Malthouse!!!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:10 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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bax wrote:
Seroiusly discuss!!! Please.....


I think you'll find it's "Sakc"!

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 Post subject: Re: Sack Malthouse!!!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:13 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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mikkey wrote:
Bunch of Richmond supporters....


Well, that's what our club is fast becoming, so we may as well tag along for the ride.

Now, where was I? Oh, that's right, does anyone know where I can get a truckload of chicken manure?

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 Post subject: Re: Sack Malthouse!!!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:19 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Bigredisback wrote:
jim wrote:
Problem isn't our list it's our poor work ethic, poor attitude and poor culture. MM has probably realised what he has walked into and it's someything you don't fix overnight. In 1991, when Parko come back, we lost our last 8. He had a huge clean out, not only blokes who weren't up to it but also cleaned out blokes that simply didn't work hard. We were in a similar malaise having won 11 games in 1990. What he did there got us in a GF in 1993 and won us a flag in 1995. We got younger blokes would worked their ring off for the club. just makes such a difference. We can look most sides in the eye with our list but it is useless if they don't work.

MM, as he showed at collingwood is similarly up to this job. Only 15th in his first year there after a good start but humiliating loses near the end. In 2 more years he was in a GF. Don't except to change overnight but he'll get blokes who want to play his way.

Spot on


I suspect Ed Curnow has gone up in Mick's estimation quite a lot since he arrived at the club.

Eddie Betts, not so much. Which is a real shame, because Eddie at his best is the equal of any small forward who's played the game in the last 10 years or so. We just don't see his best often enough.

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 Post subject: Re: Sakc Malthouse!!!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:29 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Carlton have gone from 16th for long kicking in 2012 to 2nd in 2013.

Sydney are first for long kicks in 2013, but have based that on the players available - lots of contested inside ball winners, a couple of beacon forwards and monster rucks.

Carlton's current playing list is NOT suited to long kicking, just as it wasn't in 2003.

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 Post subject: Re: Sakc Malthouse!!!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:50 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Effes wrote:
Carlton have gone from 16th for long kicking in 2012 to 2nd in 2013.

Sydney are first for long kicks in 2013, but have based that on the players available - lots of contested inside ball winners, a couple of beacon forwards and monster rucks.

Carlton's current playing list is NOT suited to long kicking, just as it wasn't in 2003.


The frustrating thing for me has been that we have shown we can deliver the ball better into the forwardline.

An example being the Bombers game. All over them in the first quarter but we just kept bombing it in so didn't get the reward.
Second and some of the third, still all over them but regularly switched the ball across the field until we could find a target on a lead.

We ran out of puff but I still thought it was a good example of using the football well and building from the back.

I was disappointed with the loss but felt that we had played some good footy and I was encouraged by it.

We've had some reasonable efforts since then but haven't tried to replicate what worked so well in that game since.

Given we don't have Tippet, White, Pike and flint hard, running machine midfielders (to press) I figured that we might concentrate more on deliberate ball use than bombing it to monsters.

Not to be and a major part of my frustration.

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 Post subject: Re: Sakc Malthouse!!!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:32 pm 
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formerly Army the Wonderkid
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Can't stand the guy, never have, never will. But we're paying over the odds for the pleasure of a dual premiership Coach so let's give him some time to see what he can do to change the culture of the place from mediocrity to structured. We all know the Board won't do it.

I think it is clear that we picked the wrong team yet again on the weekend, I mean, dump 2 midfielders and bring in 3 flankers.... who are we kidding? That had to have deliberate didn't it?

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 Post subject: Re: Sack Malthouse!!!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:34 pm 
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formerly Army the Wonderkid
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camelboy wrote:
mikkey wrote:
Bunch of Richmond supporters....


Well, that's what our club is fast becoming, so we may as well tag along for the ride.

Now, where was I? Oh, that's right, does anyone know where I can get a truckload of chicken manure?


Short sighted, like our constant messiah complex and associated expectations?

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 Post subject: Re: Sakc Malthouse!!!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:52 pm 
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Vale 1953-2020
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Ando the Wonderkid wrote:
Can't stand the guy, never have, never will. But we're paying over the odds for the pleasure of a dual premiership Coach so let's give him some time to see what he can do to change the culture of the place from mediocrity to structured. We all know the Board won't do it.

I think it is clear that we picked the wrong team yet again on the weekend, I mean, dump 2 midfielders and bring in 3 flankers.... who are we kidding? That had to have deliberate didn't it?

I think you'll find that's pronounced triple!!

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 Post subject: Re: Sack Malthouse!!!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:01 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24714
Location: Bondi Beach
anthopides wrote:
Malthouse has destroyed one of the most talented footballers in the competition Chris Yarram's confidence is at all time low he has failed to get the best out of Eddie Betts Mitch Robertson.
Mark Murphy Michael Jamieson have had ordinary seasons. Notwithstanding improvement from Lachie Henderson and Ed Curnow. Malthouse's first season has taken Carlton backwards.Carlton senior players are coming towards the end of there careers. Malthouse handling of confidence players like Yarram and Robinson is appalling.A clean out might extend Malthouse's tenure.His inability to read and encourage Yarram's undoubted talents are a disaster for the young player.


"Destroyed" is a bit rich.

I think you're over rating Yazza's 4 years with us.

Yazza is still alive and kicking...and still shows the same glimpses of brilliance but NEVER puts in 100 minutes.

He is lazy and that was the only thing going against this prodigious talent.

Talent is one thing, effort and commitment are another thing.

You should be pissed off with Yarran the way he doesn't respect our jumper EVERY time he runs out on the field.

Why can't Yarran perform as a HF/ wingman for MM and us the supporters as he was as a HBF under Yarran? Nothing to do with MM.
The issue is between the ears and something around the area you find the ticker me thinks.

As for Jammo...you forget that half of TC wanted him dropped 2 years ago, Murphy...you blame MM for him too...he's playing the same position he has since he started here at Carlton.

Carlton have been going backwards since 2001.

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 Post subject: Re: Sack Malthouse!!!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:12 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:18 am
Posts: 1321
Location: Melbourne
SnickerS wrote:
Can we please shut this thread down.
Its pathetic and Richmond like.


Why shut it down? I started this thread and the reason I did was to get people's opinion. All along I felt MM's appointment was a mistake and I tell you what a lot supporters where I sit every week are thinking the same thing.

Because he has failed miserably this year he is now stating the our players are not good enough. These are the same players that had us premiership favorites at round 3 last year before our horrid run of injuries, these are the same players that but for a bit of luck and lack of concentration could have beaten some of the top teams just 8 or so weeks ago.

This is coming from the same coach that played three ruckman against St Kilda in a selection move that blind Freddy could see was a mistake. This is coming from the same coach that took three midfielder's out of last weeks team and replaced them with none against a team whose midfield almost ran riot against the Swans.... This is the same coach that could not see that Henderson was required back against the Bulldogs when we were being killed back there. But no our list is not good enough to make finals... we are two games out of the 8 right? We'll here's two that we should have won but for his poor coaching.

And to the players, what he is doing to Yarran is a disgrace, what he is telling him is that he is not good enough to be in our starting 18, what 3 or 4 times he's been the sub and dropped once? Instead of realizing we can't play 4 small forwards he allows Yarran to take the heat that MM should otherwise take. The way some Carlton supporters are turning on Yarran has me disgusted!!

Why do Curnow, Cachia, Armfield and Rowe keep getting games? Say what you want about these guys but the all have their limitations. How many clangers did Curnow make on the weekend, he missed a simple goal from 15 meters out and couldn't even make the distance from 35m!!!! But hey two of his clanger kicks turned into flukey goal assists so he'll be in again this week.

How can so many players go backwards all in the same year? Who has improved under his watch, I struggle to name more that Henderson and Touhy? How many have gone backwards... How much time do you have?

So don't ask for this thread to be closed, make a counter argument, back something up with some facts.

If our list is so bad then did Ratten overachieve and if he did then he was a good coach right?

Here's a question for you, Have you considered that appointing MM was a mistake?


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 Post subject: Re: Sack Malthouse!!!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:24 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 2:01 pm
Posts: 2099
bondiblue wrote:
anthopides wrote:
Malthouse has destroyed one of the most talented footballers in the competition Chris Yarram's confidence is at all time low he has failed to get the best out of Eddie Betts Mitch Robertson.
Mark Murphy Michael Jamieson have had ordinary seasons. Notwithstanding improvement from Lachie Henderson and Ed Curnow. Malthouse's first season has taken Carlton backwards.Carlton senior players are coming towards the end of there careers. Malthouse handling of confidence players like Yarram and Robinson is appalling.A clean out might extend Malthouse's tenure.His inability to read and encourage Yarram's undoubted talents are a disaster for the young player.


"Destroyed" is a bit rich.

I think you're over rating Yazza's 4 years with us.

Yazza is still alive and kicking...and still shows the same glimpses of brilliance but NEVER puts in 100 minutes.

He is lazy and that was the only thing going against this prodigious talent.

Talent is one thing, effort and commitment are another thing.

You should be pissed off with Yarran the way he doesn't respect our jumper EVERY time he runs out on the field.

Why can't Yarran perform as a HF/ wingman for MM and us the supporters as he was as a HBF under Yarran? Nothing to do with MM.
The issue is between the ears and something around the area you find the ticker me thinks.

As for Jammo...you forget that half of TC wanted him dropped 2 years ago, Murphy...you blame MM for him too...he's playing the same position he has since he started here at Carlton.

Carlton have been going backwards since 2001.


Spot on BB, precious petal Yazz only puts in when it suits him, doesn't bleed Navy blue. I still cringe at that last effort against Bombers, I pretty much had him strapped to the trade table after that game, nothing I've seen since has changed my mind.

Let's hope his latent "talent" can get us something decent in the off season in terms of picks or a trade.


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 Post subject: Re: Sakc Malthouse!!!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:26 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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When did Yarran become a superstar?

One half decent season since we drafted him...

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 Post subject: Re: Sack Malthouse!!!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:32 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24714
Location: Bondi Beach
bax wrote:
SnickerS wrote:
Can we please shut this thread down.
Its pathetic and Richmond like.


Why shut it down? I started this thread and the reason I did was to get people's opinion. All along I felt MM's appointment was a mistake and I tell you what a lot supporters where I sit every week are thinking the same thing.

Because he has failed miserably this year he is now stating the our players are not good enough. These are the same players that had us premiership favorites at round 3 last year before our horrid run of injuries, these are the same players that but for a bit of luck and lack of concentration could have beaten some of the top teams just 8 or so weeks ago.

This is coming from the same coach that played three ruckman against St Kilda in a selection move that blind Freddy could see was a mistake. This is coming from the same coach that took three midfielder's out of last weeks team and replaced them with none against a team whose midfield almost ran riot against the Swans.... This is the same coach that could not see that Henderson was required back against the Bulldogs when we were being killed back there. But no our list is not good enough to make finals... we are two games out of the 8 right? We'll here's two that we should have won but for his poor coaching.

And to the players, what he is doing to Yarran is a disgrace, what he is telling him is that he is not good enough to be in our starting 18, what 3 or 4 times he's been the sub and dropped once? Instead of realizing we can't play 4 small forwards he allows Yarran to take the heat that MM should otherwise take. The way some Carlton supporters are turning on Yarran has me disgusted!!

Why do Curnow, Cachia, Armfield and Rowe keep getting games? Say what you want about these guys but the all have their limitations. How many clangers did Curnow make on the weekend, he missed a simple goal from 15 meters out and couldn't even make the distance from 35m!!!! But hey two of his clanger kicks turned into flukey goal assists so he'll be in again this week.

How can so many players go backwards all in the same year? Who has improved under his watch, I struggle to name more that Henderson and Touhy? How many have gone backwards... How much time do you have?

So don't ask for this thread to be closed, make a counter argument, back something up with some facts.

If our list is so bad then did Ratten overachieve and if he did then he was a good coach right?

Here's a question for you, Have you considered that appointing MM was a mistake?


Hi Bax

can you please post the team you would have selected against the Bulldogs in this thread?
I would like you to prove your point.

I thought we had one less tall than needed the week before so I was comforted with the inclusion of Waite.
The Kreuzer injury was a ruck for ruck replacement.
Bootsma was a surprise granted....but when we had our mids against their mids in the first and second quarter, prior to injury, fatigue etc...they shitted on us.
You cant blame the coach for our blokes not going hard enough....sure MM could have benched them, like Murphy, then you'd be screaming out we're short of mids if he had done so.

Have a look at what the players dished out in Pagan's last year, Ratten's last year and MM's last week....it is the players who are the problem...I'm not sticking up for them.

Lets get some lfe into this list. We need someone from the outside to point out that we are a middle of the road club.
I've come to that realisation, after it has cost me a lot of $$$$ that they are average...there's a thread on that too.

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 Post subject: Re: Sakc Malthouse!!!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:35 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24714
Location: Bondi Beach
I dont want to trade Yarran...........unless we can get a Boyd for him.....even then I'd like to be looking at someone else to trade.

I like Yarran...a lot...but he's @#$%&! lazy...thinks the world owes him.....his performance thus far has been below average for a pick 6.

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 Post subject: Re: Sack Malthouse!!!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:50 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24714
Location: Bondi Beach
bluegirl72 wrote:
dannyboy wrote:
Those saying its just the coach or just the players really are not getting it. Its a club that wins a flag sure the players get the hugs and the coach gets the CV but its the club - why is that? Cos it takes a whole club to win one of these !@#$%&!

It is not Ratts per say

Not Mm per say

Not players per say

and certainly not Pagan per say

its a club a club that refuses to have a good hard !@#$%& look at itself and decide living in the past is done.

Not us we're Carlton !@#$%& the rest

and the rest laugh and say, "Carlton? !@#$%&!"

yes!!


But Bluegirl you've just jumped on the anti MM blame game wagon.

Blue Vain is the pide piper with the anti MM stance...I'm glad he is...and playing devils advocate. He loves Carlton like we all do, but that doesn't make him right....nor me......the players have always shown flair in the past, but when Carrazzo went down last year we fell in a heap.Why?

Why can't we question the players?

Prior to this year, this amazing list which nearly got to a Prelim in 2011 hadn't proven to be good enough to beat the best in the business in that time.
What's changed? The coach. What has he doe with the list. Not much else other than beat bogey teams Adelaide when they were down and out...oh yeah we also beat GC who beat us last year when we had 2 out injured and they had 10.

Refer to Dannyboys post...it is not about Ratts, MM and the players...it is the club...it needs an overhaul.....no doubt about it.

Seriously, who, including you BV believes that Carlton would win 5 flags by 2020? 2 by 2015? There you go....don't believe the hype.

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 Post subject: Re: Sack Malthouse!!!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:55 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:06 am
Posts: 1826
camelboy wrote:
mikkey wrote:
Bunch of Richmond supporters....


Well, that's what our club is fast becoming, so we may as well tag along for the ride.

Now, where was I? Oh, that's right, does anyone know where I can get a truckload of chicken manure?

Most of it has been spilled out in this thread, so you shouldn't have to look too far.


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 Post subject: Re: Sack Malthouse!!!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:57 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 2:09 pm
Posts: 17210
bax wrote:
So don't ask for this thread to be closed, make a counter argument, back something up with some facts.


ok...from a purely business perspective - it's @#$%&! madness, not to mention shocking governance, which is bad enough already, so the last thing the club will be doing is removing a coach one year into a three year term.

This was never going to be a quick fix. MM and coaches are trying to implement and develop a style of play that requires discipline. It's now a revised version of what he had intended because as he soon discovered, it's difficult to coach this group of largely self-centered introverts.

I'm fine with criticism of the coach, but to seriously call for his sacking does nothing to enhance the debate on whether or not we require change at other levels, whether his appointment was justified (if that's your argument) or how to fix it. Malthouse fan or not - you sure as hell won't change this group by removing the current coach. To even contemplate it is pure stupidity.


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 Post subject: Re: Sack Malthouse!!!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:58 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:17 pm
Posts: 2033
bondiblue wrote:
bax wrote:
SnickerS wrote:
Can we please shut this thread down.
Its pathetic and Richmond like.


Why shut it down? I started this thread and the reason I did was to get people's opinion. All along I felt MM's appointment was a mistake and I tell you what a lot supporters where I sit every week are thinking the same thing.

Because he has failed miserably this year he is now stating the our players are not good enough. These are the same players that had us premiership favorites at round 3 last year before our horrid run of injuries, these are the same players that but for a bit of luck and lack of concentration could have beaten some of the top teams just 8 or so weeks ago.

This is coming from the same coach that played three ruckman against St Kilda in a selection move that blind Freddy could see was a mistake. This is coming from the same coach that took three midfielder's out of last weeks team and replaced them with none against a team whose midfield almost ran riot against the Swans.... This is the same coach that could not see that Henderson was required back against the Bulldogs when we were being killed back there. But no our list is not good enough to make finals... we are two games out of the 8 right? We'll here's two that we should have won but for his poor coaching.

And to the players, what he is doing to Yarran is a disgrace, what he is telling him is that he is not good enough to be in our starting 18, what 3 or 4 times he's been the sub and dropped once? Instead of realizing we can't play 4 small forwards he allows Yarran to take the heat that MM should otherwise take. The way some Carlton supporters are turning on Yarran has me disgusted!!

Why do Curnow, Cachia, Armfield and Rowe keep getting games? Say what you want about these guys but the all have their limitations. How many clangers did Curnow make on the weekend, he missed a simple goal from 15 meters out and couldn't even make the distance from 35m!!!! But hey two of his clanger kicks turned into flukey goal assists so he'll be in again this week.

How can so many players go backwards all in the same year? Who has improved under his watch, I struggle to name more that Henderson and Touhy? How many have gone backwards... How much time do you have?

So don't ask for this thread to be closed, make a counter argument, back something up with some facts.

If our list is so bad then did Ratten overachieve and if he did then he was a good coach right?

Here's a question for you, Have you considered that appointing MM was a mistake?


Hi Bax

can you please post the team you would have selected against the Bulldogs in this thread?
I would like you to prove your point.

I thought we had one less tall than needed the week before so I was comforted with the inclusion of Waite.
The Kreuzer injury was a ruck for ruck replacement.
Bootsma was a surprise granted....but when we had our mids against their mids in the first and second quarter, prior to injury, fatigue etc...they shitted on us.
You cant blame the coach for our blokes not going hard enough....sure MM could have benched them, like Murphy, then you'd be screaming out we're short of mids if he had done so.

Have a look at what the players dished out in Pagan's last year, Ratten's last year and MM's last week....it is the players who are the problem...I'm not sticking up for them.

Lets get some lfe into this list. We need someone from the outside to point out that we are a middle of the road club.
I've come to that realisation, after it has cost me a lot of $$$$ that they are average...there's a thread on that too.


I too think this thread "Sack Malthouse" is pointless

Do people seriously believe that Carlton will sack Malthouse and pay out $2m. I don't think so.

I haven't got an issue with people debating the merits of his coaching and the way he was appointed. I have some early concerns also. However, we really need to reserve judgement until his third year.

No one would be capable of transforming this team into a premiership contender within 12 months. Not even Ken Hinkley.

We have issues that go beyond the 22 players that play on the field. Hopefully, Malthouse can leave a legacy that at least puts us in the right direction for sustainable success. Otherwise, we will be in the wilderness for a while longer.


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 Post subject: Re: Sakc Malthouse!!!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:06 pm 
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Bob Chitty

Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 9:46 pm
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Well said Doc.


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 Post subject: Re: Sakc Malthouse!!!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:10 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:32 am
Posts: 10482
moshe25 wrote:
Ando the Wonderkid wrote:
Can't stand the guy, never have, never will. But we're paying over the odds for the pleasure of a dual premiership Coach so let's give him some time to see what he can do to change the culture of the place from mediocrity to structured. We all know the Board won't do it.

I think it is clear that we picked the wrong team yet again on the weekend, I mean, dump 2 midfielders and bring in 3 flankers.... who are we kidding? That had to have deliberate didn't it?

I think you'll find that's pronounced triple!!


I can see why you were bullied at school. :razz:


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