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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 11:12 pm 
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Trevor Keogh
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Tackling aside, as its already been represented enough in this thread... what does my head in is no Plan B.

Harry goes down, we have no other talls to kick it too (sadly TDK isnt a forward, cant recall the last mark he took above his head in the forward 50) but we continued to bomb it in.

Why has the simple skill of leading been lost on this group? or is it really our game plan to just not do that?

We needed to lower the eyes today and hit up targets. We really did need a back up plan

Oh yeah

We cant kick for (*&^()

and Cottrell needs to be dropped

and have I mentioned we need a tackling coach?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 11:20 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:14 pm
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Location: Melbourne
showbag wrote:
When does Stocker get to turn in to Brett Ratten? I'm sick of watching him being mismatched in the back pocket.


Took Ratts till his 5th season to go into midfield.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 11:31 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:14 pm
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Location: Melbourne
Walsh wrote:
So Weitering, H, Charlie, Jack, Stocker, De Koning Cunners, Fisher are busts? Okay.

Maybe abit of Champaign comedy. Bad loss today...but these youngsters have 10 years in front of them not 2 thats what the rebuild is for. What happens next 2-5 years is to be seen.


Yes we have botched large parts of this but we don’t just give up and start again.

We actually have something to work with, but we lack depth everywhere. People bag Plowman but without him we have literally no one to play on small opposition forwards, Harry goes down and that’s it as far as our forward presence goes, and getting Ed to make way for Dow in the middle showed why we don’t do it that often. I’m still confused to why our mids can’t play anywhere outside of their preferred position.

Then we have fisher and Martin under done, Murph finished, Cottrell should have his papers stamped after today, and LOB given a go.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 11:44 pm 
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Ken Hands

Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:57 pm
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Location: next to you in the outer
Adam Chatfield wrote:
Walsh wrote:
So Weitering, H, Charlie, Jack, Stocker, De Koning Cunners, Fisher are busts? Okay.

Maybe abit of Champaign comedy. Bad loss today...but these youngsters have 10 years in front of them not 2 thats what the rebuild is for. What happens next 2-5 years is to be seen.


Yes we have botched large parts of this but we don’t just give up and start again.

We actually have something to work with, but we lack depth everywhere. People bag Plowman but without him we have literally no one to play on small opposition forwards, Harry goes down and that’s it as far as our forward presence goes, and getting Ed to make way for Dow in the middle showed why we don’t do it that often. I’m still confused to why our mids can’t play anywhere outside of their preferred position.

Then we have fisher and Martin under done, Murph finished, Cottrell should have his papers stamped after today, and LOB given a go.


Cottrell is a kid and should go back to the VFL and work on his deficiencies, he has time.
Murphy should not play again, serious liability now and never ever ever wins a contest, weak as my piss after 3 litres of water. Not sure how he fits into this side.
I think LOB needs another chance, years shot so let’s see what he’s got before we cut him.
Play the future now.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 11:50 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Adam Chatfield wrote:
Walsh wrote:
So Weitering, H, Charlie, Jack, Stocker, De Koning Cunners, Fisher are busts? Okay.

Maybe abit of Champaign comedy. Bad loss today...but these youngsters have 10 years in front of them not 2 thats what the rebuild is for. What happens next 2-5 years is to be seen.


Yes we have botched large parts of this but we don’t just give up and start again.

We actually have something to work with, but we lack depth everywhere. People bag Plowman but without him we have literally no one to play on small opposition forwards, Harry goes down and that’s it as far as our forward presence goes, and getting Ed to make way for Dow in the middle showed why we don’t do it that often. I’m still confused to why our mids can’t play anywhere outside of their preferred position.

Then we have fisher and Martin under done, Murph finished, Cottrell should have his papers stamped after today, and LOB given a go.


With H down we definitely lost the last of the talls today. Caz out of the team and terribly out of form. Gov is Gov and pretty much plays 1 and misses 6. Charlie missing for 2 years and who knows what the future holds. All that says that there's no Plan B (ie: How to attack with smalls in the forward line).

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:27 am 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:14 pm
Posts: 5872
Location: Melbourne
dablues wrote:
Adam Chatfield wrote:
Walsh wrote:
So Weitering, H, Charlie, Jack, Stocker, De Koning Cunners, Fisher are busts? Okay.

Maybe abit of Champaign comedy. Bad loss today...but these youngsters have 10 years in front of them not 2 thats what the rebuild is for. What happens next 2-5 years is to be seen.


Yes we have botched large parts of this but we don’t just give up and start again.

We actually have something to work with, but we lack depth everywhere. People bag Plowman but without him we have literally no one to play on small opposition forwards, Harry goes down and that’s it as far as our forward presence goes, and getting Ed to make way for Dow in the middle showed why we don’t do it that often. I’m still confused to why our mids can’t play anywhere outside of their preferred position.

Then we have fisher and Martin under done, Murph finished, Cottrell should have his papers stamped after today, and LOB given a go.


Cottrell is a kid and should go back to the VFL and work on his deficiencies, he has time.
Murphy should not play again, serious liability now and never ever ever wins a contest, weak as my piss after 3 litres of water. Not sure how he fits into this side.
I think LOB needs another chance, years shot so let’s see what he’s got before we cut him.
Play the future now.


Cottrell just doesn’t have the tools to make it, unless he improved out of sight.

Murph is a liability in a side which is already soft and doesn’t put enough pressure on. Is it a coincidence we were worse after he came on v Sydney and then today?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 6:26 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:22 am
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I’m astounded that the media are highlighting all te WC outs but not mentioning that we went in without Plowman! :wink:


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 6:40 am 
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formerly King Kenny
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Adam Chatfield wrote:
Walsh wrote:
So Weitering, H, Charlie, Jack, Stocker, De Koning Cunners, Fisher are busts? Okay.

Maybe abit of Champaign comedy. Bad loss today...but these youngsters have 10 years in front of them not 2 thats what the rebuild is for. What happens next 2-5 years is to be seen.


Yes we have botched large parts of this but we don’t just give up and start again.

We actually have something to work with, but we lack depth everywhere. People bag Plowman but without him we have literally no one to play on small opposition forwards, Harry goes down and that’s it as far as our forward presence goes, and getting Ed to make way for Dow in the middle showed why we don’t do it that often. I’m still confused to why our mids can’t play anywhere outside of their preferred position.

Then we have fisher and Martin under done, Murph finished, Cottrell should have his papers stamped after today, and LOB given a go.


Dow is the middle had to happen, he is the future, not Ed. Dow had a good game, it was more playing Martin there who is still underdone and out of form.

In saying that, around the ground I’m not sure what Ed was doing or who he was on, but surely a hard tag on Sheed or Gaff was a simple choice?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 7:25 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 15685
Ed played half back. He went onto Sheed in the last quarter when the damage was done. So we couldn't hold our nerve and went back to the old firm of Ed, Cripps and Walsh.
Dow should have been there., not Cripps. To 3/4 time, Dow had 4 centre clearances. Cripps had 1. But no, when the heat was on, the coaches again didn't have the guts to back the younger option in. To our detriment.

Selection integrity also applies to game day positional selection.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 7:37 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
Posts: 17465
Location: North of the border
BV you are hinting that this game was there to won at 3/4 time. WC were never going to lose this game.
Every time we got close they stepped it up .
They completely had our measure and at no stage did it ever look like they were going to lose.




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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 7:47 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 4972
Location: Singapore
Parks would have been handy to play on Ryan.

Ed is a more effective on baller than Cripps right now so it should have been Cripps who made way for Dow and Martin. Unfortunately there’s nowhere on the ground we can hide Cripps as he’s too slow, it’s like watching Kouta in the last part of his career when he was still strong at the contest but the opposition mids always ran off him.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 7:49 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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…and Honey should have been picked instead of Murphy (phew, dodged an Azza post there)


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:24 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 15685
Sydney Blue wrote:
BV you are hinting that this game was there to won at 3/4 time. WC were never going to lose this game.
Every time we got close they stepped it up .
They completely had our measure and at no stage did it ever look like they were going to lose.


I said Ed went onto Sheed when the damage was done. Our midfield were getting smashed throughout the game. Cripps had 1 centre clearance to 3/4 time yet they persisted with him and flicked Dow. Unfortunately Crippa was a defensive liability. I watch Cripps during a set play kick out by West Coast in the last quarter. Cripps was standing next to Sheed. Sheed jogged off, and Hurn easily hit up Sheed 60 metres away from our goal whilst Cripps guarded grass achieving nothing. Our set plays are abysmal. Stoppages, Defensive kickouts, offensive kickouts.
There's zero accountability.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:53 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Saw that Carlton were favourites before the game and did I ever LOL.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:57 am 
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John Nicholls
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Blue Vain wrote:
I said Ed went onto Sheed when the damage was done. Our midfield were getting smashed throughout the game. Cripps had 1 centre clearance to 3/4 time yet they persisted with him and flicked Dow. Unfortunately Crippa was a defensive liability. I watch Cripps during a set play kick out by West Coast in the last quarter. Cripps was standing next to Sheed. Sheed jogged off, and Hurn easily hit up Sheed 60 metres away from our goal whilst Cripps guarded grass achieving nothing. Our set plays are abysmal. Stoppages, Defensive kickouts, offensive kickouts.
There's zero accountability.


:clap:
It's been that obvious - even I can see it.


Last edited by SurreyBlue on Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:57 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:49 pm
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Heavs wrote:
At the very least I'm sending an email to cancel auto-renew. We live interstate and seldom attend, the money is a donation. But if all these cauliflower are going to continue being conditional them so am I


Same here, I live interstate but have Captain’s Club Membership, I usually only get to 1 or 2 games a year. Have been a passionate supporter of the Club since 1966. Have been happy to support the club I Love financially, but they have finally broken me, I like many others now watch them play, detached emotionally. Unless there is a drastic improvement in the last 10 games, I will be taking the basic Interstate Membership from 2022, as I will never desert the club entirely.

How can all we supporters stay passionate when it so damm obvious that the players apart from a few don’t give a stuff about the club, the jumper they are privileged to wear.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:59 am 
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John Nicholls
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Blue Vain wrote:
Ed played half back. He went onto Sheed in the last quarter when the damage was done. So we couldn't hold our nerve and went back to the old firm of Ed, Cripps and Walsh.
Dow should have been there., not Cripps. To 3/4 time, Dow had 4 centre clearances. Cripps had 1. But no, when the heat was on, the coaches again didn't have the guts to back the younger option in. To our detriment.

Selection integrity also applies to game day positional selection.


Enjoying your input today BV. :thumbsup:


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:01 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 1673
I think the biggest positive out of this match is there is no hiding anything, and finals are out so we now have a bit more freedom to set some harsh standards (that should have been set a while ago).

It's going to be a huge challenge to get Murphy to 300 - I imagine they'll do it via the Medical Sub. And he can take it or leave it. (And I'm a big Murphy fan but frankly its over for him - unless he does a Travis Boak and reinvents himself BUT he'll need to do it from the position of medical sub). I think Cottrell needs a spell in the VFL. And Setterfield has lost me (I realise I'm late to this party). I agree we need to see what LOB can do - I'm not optimistic but I'd rather be sure before we jettison him.

I think there is a lot wrong but I don't think we need to put a line through the whole rebuild. Remember it was only a couple of seasons ago, AFTER they had played finals that Melbourne finished at the bottom (I think finished the season in 5th in 2018 and then or 17th in 2019...). And the personnel has not changed that much since then. I see a lot of similarities between us and the Demons' rebuild.

And I don't buy the thinking that Cripps isn't up to it. To me, this is one of the biggest indictments on the coaching staff - we need to have a better plan to ensure Cripps is able to contribute at his optimum level. FWIW, I think we should stick with Teague but replace some of the assistant coaches and get in a football guru to complement Teague - like Neil Balme did at the Tigers, Mark Williams at Melbourne (and to a lesser extent Don Pyke is doing at the Swans...). Worsfold could be the right person but needs to be full time (certainly not remote...).


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:29 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:36 am
Posts: 6978
Cons:

Mostly related to the coaching.
Yet again, onfield talent was beaten by system and tactics and key match ups. Harry's injury didn't help, but the opposition again found scoring far easier than we did. We consistently seem to play in a way that allows considerable space in our defensive 50. Other teams don't. It's not hard, coach.
I'm sure it was good experience for Stocker, but why would you expose him like that when you want to win? And why would you play Ed half back, when your midfield is struggling?
We tried, but didn't play with the kind of intensity that would have given us a win. When you're outtackled by the non-tackling Eagles, you know you've got a problem.
Every week I see them the players look more and more like they no longer believe in what the coaches are trying to get them to do. We're either tentative or panicked.

Goalkicking.
Not enough players in the top 10 on the ground.
Docherty has been pretty invisible the last 2 weeks. They've got to work out what to do with Docherty, Williams and Saad. We need to defend better against small forwards, and we need more impact from this trio offensively.

Pros:

Watching the game 24 hours later, knowing we've butchered another opportunity, makes it less traumatic.
Walsh.
Encouraging performances from Owies and De Koning.
Liked Fisher's 1st half and Dow's 2nd half.
A number of guys were better than I was expecting. Although Pittonet was monstered in the last quarter, I thought he was reasonable. Good to see him taking some marks, including 2 in forward 50 (which is way better than Levi was giving us). Setters had a pretty good 1st half.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 7:40 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Dow was the only bright spot in yesterday's game.


As for game analysis - the old saying holds true "A champion team will always beat a team of champions - but in our case its a TEAM that will always beat us.

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