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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2024 2:08 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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bondiblue wrote:
Those turnover goals have nothing to do with rucks. Zero. And some posters are making up stories that its due to TDK being in the ruck to suit their narrative for one ruck. Baloney.

Its a new layer in our game. We have a super fit team who can run run run, and adding Walshy's 15km to the team will see more run.


See, this is why I said you were too dismissive in an earlier post.

The argument is that having two rucks, one of whom can't run or mark or kick goals, reduces our mobility and ability to create targets, making a rapid turnover game harder to execute. You yourself are happy to talk about all the running capacity we've added but seem to overlook the fact that you have to take away a big chunk of that run to accommodate the man who improves our contested game. It's not that hard to understand, and you do other posters a disservice by repeatedly attributing it to bias or emotion. Did you answer my question about who should make easy for Pitto? There's a fair chance I missed it.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2024 2:51 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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CK95 wrote:
It's 16 here in Melbourne & I've got lamb shank soup on the stove :thumbsup:


Can i come round ? say yeah and i'll bring the fresh bread rolls and some french butter .

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2024 2:54 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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GreatEx wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Those turnover goals have nothing to do with rucks. Zero. And some posters are making up stories that its due to TDK being in the ruck to suit their narrative for one ruck. Baloney.

Its a new layer in our game. We have a super fit team who can run run run, and adding Walshy's 15km to the team will see more run.


See, this is why I said you were too dismissive in an earlier post.

The argument is that having two rucks, one of whom can't run or mark or kick goals, reduces our mobility and ability to create targets, making a rapid turnover game harder to execute. You yourself are happy to talk about all the running capacity we've added but seem to overlook the fact that you have to take away a big chunk of that run to accommodate the man who improves our contested game. It's not that hard to understand, and you do other posters a disservice by repeatedly attributing it to bias or emotion. Did you answer my question about who should make easy for Pitto? There's a fair chance I missed it.


I just typed out my team for tonight before teams come out and how we fair against the Crows and lost it because I answered the doo and got stuck with a builder.

I'm not sure what your point is GE re dismissive. In fact I don't think you represent my position at wall well in your post.

I'm saying we already have the run in the team with the players I've mentioned. Players who this year are clocking up 15kms and providing great support on the last line and following up the ball to the forward line, and... the rucks have nothing to do with that. Rucks. Plural.

I'm also saying that TDK as the sole ruck is not the reason for our improvement on turnovers. That applies to both TDK and Pitto. TDK doesnt give us run, but is a target when he's the 3rd tall forward. That's when he is a target like last years Final vs Dees. Pitto isnt a great forward target, but if he's sitting in the goal square an opposition coach would have to be a fool to believe he is useless, and he can't mark and can't kick a GOAL. we are moving the ball quickly with a plan and any tall on their own would be dangerous on their own. im saying and providing the stats that TDK isnt a marking ruckman around the ground, as we are led to believe, and neither is Pitto. Pitto is good at the tap and TDK is a good target in the forwardline. And together they can give us a chop out AND protect TDK from the big bully rucks AND help us with our contested game.

I'm sayin the net improvement in our turnovers isnt going to be lost with 2 rucks, and I'm saying with the two rucks we will regain our contested ball AND give is another target in the forwardline AND avoid risking injury to Harry in the ruck, whilst leaving Charlie on his own against multiple defenders and not being able to kick goals whilst that is happening.

Im saying neither player is useless and the sum of the two give us a target and a contested bull in the ruck. The running players are helping us with turnover this year, but without Pitto we seems to have lost the ruck and the contested ball that goes with it. I'm asking for any evidence of anything different to that. I'm not getting it.

This week against OBrien I want Pitto playing, as I would in Finals and against teams with huge rucks: too big for TDK. Next week for example the ruck for GWS is Briggs whilst Preuss is out injured and I dont think we need Pitto unless he is responsible for our weapon at stoppages.

I am not being dismissive of other posters, I am not accepting descriptions like "useless" as the basis of an argument. What is "useless" suppose to imply? The proof is last years wins that Pitto isnt "useless". Useless is not an answer. Its an emotional adjective. It doesnt explain anything. Nor does just saying "we are a better turnover team because TDK is the sole ruck", when in fact he is not part of the turnover sequence of play. I ask for explanation.

As for who does replace Pitto I did explain who and how it would work above, but I will put up my team for this weeks game for you to glean.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2024 2:57 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Mickstar wrote:
CK95 wrote:
It's 16 here in Melbourne & I've got lamb shank soup on the stove :thumbsup:


Can i come round ? say yeah and i'll bring the fresh bread rolls and some french butter .



Mate if you can pick up tommi on the way he can bring the fresh herbs :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2024 2:59 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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CK95 wrote:
Mickstar wrote:
CK95 wrote:
It's 16 here in Melbourne & I've got lamb shank soup on the stove :thumbsup:


Can i come round ? say yeah and i'll bring the fresh bread rolls and some french butter .



Mate if you can pick up tommi on the way he can bring the fresh herbs :lol:


Yes CK , but does Tom like lamb shank soup ?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2024 3:31 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Great news about Walshy playing:

I'm expecting Fogarty and Hollands as the two outs and marchbank not fit.

I hope to see the following team for this week against Crows with OBrien as the Crows ruck

IN: Walsh Pittonet

B: McGovern Weitering Boyd
HB: Saad Kemp Williams

F: Pittonet Hewett Cerra
C: Acres Cripps Hollands

HF: Walsh McKay Cottrell
F: Owies TDK Curnow

I: Newman Kennedy Durdin Fantasia
S: Carroll/ Cincotta

Crows OBrien gave TDK a smashing last year, literally.
Pitto got injured after 14 minutes of play.
Crows mids won the clearances. Crows won easily.

This week Pitto can do the smashing into OBrien, and hopefully we unleash TDK onto a fatiguing OBrien in the 2nd half od quarters and he can return the favour to OBrien for last years smashing.
Crows 2nd ruck Burgess 193 isn't tall. Walker and Fogarty do a bit of their ruck in the forwardline. TDK can easily beat Burgess.

Crows have 3 tall defenders

Burgess 193 v TDK 203
Butts 194 v Harry 203
Smith 193 v Charlie 194

We have a distinct height advantage.

Would like Charlie to be more mobile than standing at FF waiting for the ball when TDK can do that and have 10cm on his opponent.
Charlie is a target and players upfield with ball usually and will look for him. If Charlie is moving around, providing a lead, theres more chance of players lowering their eyes because they cant help but gravitate to Charlie. Charlie can kick goals from 50.

With running machines Walsh and Cottrell running up and down the ground providing link and support, we have a relatively open forward line with 3 huge targets on a fast dry track made for marking players.

We can cover their 3 key forwards Walker 192 Fogarty 193 and Nankervis 190 with our 3 tall defenders.

If Pitto isnt fit / not selected, and Marchbank is, then I would have Marchbank at CHB and Kemp as the marking 3rd tall against Smith. If we don't have Pitto playing and Harry goes in the ruck we have at least 2 mobile talls target with Kermp in the forwardline with Charlie, not just the one.

With the running power/ endurance/ stamina of Walsh I dont think we need Carroll and Kennedy. I will go with Kennedy if we can bring the contested game back. Vossy has given hints we will go to work on this. Fantasia has been playing a fantastic defensive role around the centre blocking the oppositions lane/ avenue and part of the reason why we have Owies and Durdin providing 50% of our turnovers in the forwardline. Fantasia knows where to run and follow Vossy's instructions.

I just hope, if Pitto doesnt play, our team doesn't fall for the trap thinking with the inclusion of Walsh our Clearance game will magically appear and rest on that thought because they will be letting a hungry Crows outfit to take the game away from us and the 4 points.

If Marchbank and Pitto dont play, we need TDK to try and nullify the opposition ruck man's dominance and let the ball fall in the favour of our midfield bulls to give them a chance in the contest, where they will go to work, and they then can dish it off to Walsh running past. Last year the Crows hit the ball out of the contested area at stoppages and they ran off with the ball from the outside. This is their weapon over us. Walsh and Cotterll arent quick enough to magically appear at CBs to give outside support.

This is a danger game from an improving and Crows team who is hurting and looking to repeat their effort on us last year. They believe they can beat us. Lets hope no one gets injured. No Pitto, and no Marchbank means no 2nd marking forward (at least for another 5 weeks till Martin returns or Kemp plays that role) when Harry gives TDK a chop out. An injury to TDK will stuff up our structures badly. I'd rather lose the ruck than lose TDK.

With Pitto 5-6 goal win

Without Pitto win by 2 goals....please

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2024 3:32 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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CK95 wrote:
Mickstar wrote:
CK95 wrote:
It's 16 here in Melbourne & I've got lamb shank soup on the stove :thumbsup:


Can i come round ? say yeah and i'll bring the fresh bread rolls and some french butter .



Mate if you can pick up tommi on the way he can bring the fresh herbs :lol:



My middle name is Herb. Can I come too. :wink:

I'll show you my herb if you show me yours.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2024 4:00 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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I would be keen to see Cincotta have a go at the small forward role. He is a bit of a beast, is fast and can tackle hard. Wouldn’t surprise if he is the sub.
I also wouldn’t mind seeing Binns come in for O.Hollands. I would like to see what Binns can do at the level.

But I believe the following is more likely:
Out: Fogarty, E.Hollands
In: Walsh, Owies


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2024 4:57 pm 
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Ken Hunter

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Looks like it will be a big crowd. Only single reserved seats available and no GA tickets. Members can still scan their card and there will be some GA areas.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2024 5:18 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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kezza wrote:
Looks like it will be a big crowd. Only single reserved seats available and no GA tickets. Members can still scan their card and there will be some GA areas.



I'm confused by all this stuff even though the way you've put it sounds pretty simple

I just want to turn up against a non Vic side & easily get a seat, like back in the good old days when we were shit :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2024 5:30 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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CK95 wrote:
kezza wrote:
Looks like it will be a big crowd. Only single reserved seats available and no GA tickets. Members can still scan their card and there will be some GA areas.



I'm confused by all this stuff even though the way you've put it sounds pretty simple

I just want to turn up against a non Vic side & easily get a seat, like back in the good old days when we were shit :lol:


Ease up . Even in our dark days we pulled a decent crowd .

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2024 6:23 pm 
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Robert Walls
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Location: looking for a good bloke to have a beer with
In: Walsh

Out: Fog

Round 5 team v Adelaide

Backs: Brodie Kemp Jacob Weitering Nic Newman

Half-backs: Adam Saad Mitch McGovern Nic Newman*

Centreline: Ollie Hollands Patrick Cripps Blake Acres

Half-forwards: Elijah Hollands Harry McKay Matthew Kennedy

Forwards: Orazio Fantasia Charlie Curnow Matthew Owies

Followers: Tom De Koning Adam Cerra George Hewett

Interchange: Jordan Boyd Jack Carroll Matthew Cottrell Corey Durdin Sam Walsh


Emergencies: Jaxon Binns Lachlan Cowan Marc Pittonet

* From the club site - should be Williams

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2024 7:10 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Good news that Elijah is ok to continue. And obviously great about Walsh, but we've known about this for some time.

After all the red ink spilled this week, it's anticlimactic not seeing Pitto in the team, but maybe reintegrating Walsh is the priority this week and we can mix and match game styles later.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2024 8:14 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Interesting to see if its Durdin or Carroll as sub

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2024 8:43 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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I don't expect Elijah to play.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2024 8:50 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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jake_h03 wrote:
bender wrote:
Mickstar wrote:
PS ................... why is everyone piling it on Bondi when all he wants to do is bring in Pitto to give Tom a bit of a chopout . Pretty basic i reckon .


its coz he gives us facts, Mick

we dont want facts here at TC - well, i dont anyway - i want conjecture, speculation, unfounded rumours, uncontained bias, opinions (all of them), emotion, passion, rage, tears, joy, nervousness and constant Essendon*** bashing

but facts???? pfft... who needs them

btw, bondi's work was top notch, and quite correct.... in my opinion


Chill out it’s a fan footy forum not the Supreme Court. Not everyone is going to write a dissertation on why a certain player should or should not be selected


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mate, i was having a bit if a joke.....

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2024 8:56 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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CK95 wrote:
It's 16 here in Melbourne & I've got lamb shank soup on the stove :thumbsup:


geez, you blokes need to come to england - mid spring and it was 4 degrees this morning!!!!!

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2024 9:00 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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bender wrote:
jake_h03 wrote:
bender wrote:
Mickstar wrote:
PS ................... why is everyone piling it on Bondi when all he wants to do is bring in Pitto to give Tom a bit of a chopout . Pretty basic i reckon .


its coz he gives us facts, Mick

we dont want facts here at TC - well, i dont anyway - i want conjecture, speculation, unfounded rumours, uncontained bias, opinions (all of them), emotion, passion, rage, tears, joy, nervousness and constant Essendon**** bashing

but facts???? pfft... who needs them

btw, bondi's work was top notch, and quite correct.... in my opinion


Chill out it’s a fan footy forum not the Supreme Court. Not everyone is going to write a dissertation on why a certain player should or should not be selected


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mate, i was having a bit if a joke.....


Funny you say that Bend . I got a couple of mates who are real characters . A couple of hilarious blokes who are a barrel of laughs , BUT , when it comes to footy they get all serious and there sense of humour goes out the window . I tell you mate , footy sends people REAL strange . What is it about our game ? real looney tunes stuff with my mates to the point i never footy up in there company coz it sends "em off the planet . Real weird i tell ya .

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2024 9:03 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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jake_h03 wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
CK95 wrote:
bondi, if you scroll up I think you'll see he was quite conciliatory in his response to you.


The response to bender? If that's what you're referring to, I don't think the correct word is concilliatory....telling him to chill out?

I miss the old jake. He was full of analysis and facts supporting his arguments. I didn't always agree with him but he was convincing at most.

I prefer him to give us more than Pitto is "useless"...compared to who? why? and what proof is there so I can have reason to not worry about missing our 2 rucks playing together?

Its cold outside again in Sydney today. 23 but feels 15. I need to be stimulated....indoors.


Hey Bondi, I come in peace. How on earth did I attack you?

I don't rate Pitto outside the ruck contest, that's all. I think he is a decent enough ruckman when playing in the ruck but with the trajectory TDK is on I just don't have in my best 22 and am surprised that others do. It's just an opinion. I don't think I said anything too inflamatory.

I said I was happy to concede as you presented a far more detailed and insightful argument and I didn't have time to enter a robust discussion.

Bender posted something about not presenting facts relying conjecture and speculation or whatever, I just said chill out, we don't all have to do hours of research to validate an opinion on a footy forum. For me TC is like chatting about footy at the pub. I do it for fun and don't take it so seriously.

FWIW I miss the old me too. I've got a lot going on in life at the moment and just as much time to devote to this site as I used to

Love your passion and long analytical posts even if I don't always have time read them. We're all blue baggers and love the club, so we're all on the same team here. And if Pitto is selected I'll be hoping he plays a blinder


jakey, you are kinda right in what i posted, but read my post again with your tongue in your cheek (no, i'm not being rude...), i was just having a bit of fun about how i see TC. i'm sorry if it hit a nerve, there was no malice in it at all - like most of my posts, there was no harm meant, i was just trying to show some levity

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2024 7:36 am 
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Robert Walls

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bondiblue wrote:
Mickstar wrote:
PS ................... why is everyone piling it on Bondi when all he wants to do is bring in Pitto to give Tom a bit of a chopout . Pretty basic i reckon .



No one is piling it on me Mickstar. Some posters are just giving their opinion on Pitto as a ruck man, albeit vulgar in some instances, with no facts to back it up.

I'm just sick of people writing off our players with emotive language instead of reasoning: facts, not made up emotive bullshit or a hunch. This isn't me sticking up for the list, its more than that.We have a coach and team mates haven't written anyone off. See what TDK said about Pitto yesterday.

Every player on this list plays an important role. We will notice that at the end of the year when we have to let go 5-6 players.

Pitto will play this year, whether some personally like it or not, and we are going to appreciate it when he does, because he will be picked when he's required especially so given there is no other ruck on our list who could play the ruck role without disrupting the structure of the team. Some weeks that will be more important than others.

I'm going to piss myself if, but hopefully not, TDK can't get up due to injury, fatigue, cocaine management (joke), whatever, and if he's not already playing AFL, he is picked, and we win with the so called "useless" player.

With 7 Best 23 players out injured we are still winning, which goes to show how important depth is, and the importance of player no. 30 is on our list.

In this scenario Pitto might be player No 31 for some. He can do the job when callled up. He's not useless and we are not a worse team with Pitto playing as some suggest. He's in my best 22 in Finals, ie horses for courses, and when we are up against 2 rucks, or a ruck who is too dominant for TDK. Doesn't matter, there is a reason to play him with TDK and there will be a need for Pitto to play when in need. He doesnt have to play every week. Like TDK said, at present Vossy is having a look at rucking TDK on his own. Just happens Pitto wasn't fit when round 0 team was picked, and not because we've moved on from Pitto in the ruck (which is just an opinion put forward as a fact).

Last year we had posters wanting to trade Harry because they suggested he didn't want to ruck. You'd think they had a hotline to Harry and he told them that. Opinion stated as fact.

They are all our boys and they all have a role to play. Players don't make the decision on the team, nor do posters, the coach and MC do.

This is a good list, even with 7 of our best out. There was good reason to sign up Pitto for 4 years. Its smart. Call him depth, call him insurance, and in Finals I would bet Vossy will call on him, just like Clark Keating was for the Lions in their three peat and that selection was done for good reason.

There's a case for nearly every experienced player to be selected. The MC have a choice with all of them, and they will make selections unpopular with some (case every week) based on what player form and fitness and what they can give the team to help them win.

Say nice things, be reasonable and don't write any player off after 4 rounds of footy; that's all I ask.

Well said Bondi Blue :thanks:


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