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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 3:09 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:58 pm
Posts: 4299
Crusader wrote:
keogh wrote:
robertbb wrote:
I'd say Gov, but he's injured too much.


McGovern is simply overrated
Still overrated
Is lazy
Not a team player
Not disciplined enough
Isn’t 3 years of evidence enough for ya
I personally would love to be pleasantly surprised
The guy isn’t good enough in my opinion

Marchbank isn’t good enough to be a key defender injured or not
He is a third tall
A good interceptor
But not a key defender
Plowman is simply crap
So overrated and not big enough

Young is going to have to be it
I would look at Zac Strom from South Freo or someone of that ilk from the lower leagues who would be strong enough to play on the big mothers which was Jones role
Rance
Tahlia
Ha ha
Some posters have no idea

The idea of McGovern as a defender is straight up comical. As the intercept, they'd waltz around him when he plonks his fat arse in the hole. Locking down a key target, they'd make two leads and he'd be gasping for air. He's a fat full forward that will be good for the development of mids in the twos. It's not his fault the club is paying him what it is.

Agree that Young is going to be in the frame (by default), but I'd have Oscar as the clubhouse leader for the lockdown defender spot. He might be giving away a couple of inches (at 196cm :eek: ), but he's hard to move when they get into a wrestle and, from what I've seen, plays at a high intensity that will allow him to peel off his man and kill the contest third man up if necessary.

With Doc out of the picture, I think we'll play a better defensive game. One that doesn't get torched by mid-to-small forwards as much. One that might open a few eyes as to how much Plowman is bringing to the table each week.


Agree with this. Gov is not the answer.
Am far from sold of him, but need to give Young the opportunity and see what he can do.
As another posted said the other day, with more of a focus on team defence and mids running hard both ways, we will hopefully be able to cover the loss of Liam more easily.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 3:55 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Levi > Gov... and I'm over Levi

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 7:38 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/cas ... 599rm.html

This article indicates Carlton is meekly requesting pick 64 to use (which the club already has) for this situation.

Meek, weak and feeble.

Carlton is just rolling over to the AFL.

No wonder Carlton never plays in finals. This is an example of a weak mind set & an unwillingness to push back and demand what you want.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:27 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 9:26 pm
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tap in 79 wrote:
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/casboult-likely-to-get-vaccinated-ahead-of-rookie-draft-20211117-p599rm.html

This article indicates Carlton is meekly requesting pick 64 to use (which the club already has) for this situation.

Meek, weak and feeble.

Carlton is just rolling over to the AFL.

No wonder Carlton never plays in finals. This is an example of a weak mind set & an unwillingness to push back and demand what you want.


Umm…

Did you actually read the article closely?

We can’t use pick 64 as things stand and would have to pass due to list lodgement rules.

We are actually pushing for an exception to be made. It’s not weak or meek.

What did you want us to do? Get pick 1???

Seriously…

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:56 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
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Location: Australia
We should be asking for an end of first round pick


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:03 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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I reckon p 26 would be fair compensation and wouldn’t rock the boat.
Put whatever spin one wants on it , we’ll be adversely affected for couple of seasons at least.
Due to a situation not created by negligence or lack of due diligence on the part of CFC.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:23 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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I reckon p 26 would be fair compensation and wouldn’t rock the boat.
Put whatever spin one wants on it , we’ll be adversely affected for couple of seasons at least.
Due to a situation not created by negligence or lack of due diligence on the part of CFC.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 6:27 am 
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Horrie Clover
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We'd be the first to complain if a compensation pick was given to clubs that was ahead of our draft pick.

We've lost an important player in Jones thanks to what is largely an over reach of government controls.

There isn't an athlete on the planet that has contracted a severe case of covid and ended up so bad that their career is over.

There are a few that missed significant time of their careers but they all recovered and returned to sport.

If everyone else gets vaccinated then this shouldn't have been necessary.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 9:06 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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Yes we would be the first to complain but like we have been told to suck it up, other clubs can suck it up too.
We got stooged when AFL gave us minimal in compo for being shit for so long, yet 12 months later, despite having only won one or two more games the preceding 4 years, they gave GC the world.
We got stooged when they gave the Lions a priority pick at end of first round and gave us nothing.
We got stooged when they changed the priority pick rule from immediately after your pick to end of first round when we needed it most.
We are owed more than one. Nobody is asking for pick 1. All we are asking for is fair consideration given the circumstances.
And this whole Liam hasn't given an official reason for resigning so we can't do anything is the biggest load of crap ever.
Floors me that people here are stupid enough to buy that garbage.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 4:48 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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https://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/10308 ... next-steps

On replacing Jones, Brad Lloyd says:

Quote:
We’ve got Lewis, Oscar McDonald and Caleb Marchbank returning from injury and some younger players coming through.

Who are the “younger players” he is referring to? Kemp is an obvious one, but who else? I wouldn’t have thought Parks has the size to be included in a KP conversation.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 6:58 pm 
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Ken Hunter

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Channel 7 news said that the AFL has knocked back our request for an extra pick in the upcoming draft.
Not sure if we applied again or this is old news.
Seriously would it have been that big of a deal if we were allowed an extra pick?
We are not asking for any compensation, just a pick at the end of the draft.
Wonder what their response would have been if this was a club such as the Suns who found themselves in this position.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 7:00 pm 
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formerly Fevola

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I dont like the noise about us not getting a mature guy to replace Jones. Oscar McDonald, Kemp, Marchbank, McGovern. Not even in he same standard. Bar Kemp the others either cant stay on the park, or are not in the same league.

They never learn. Lets wait and see i guess.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:41 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:24 pm
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Location: Bridge, Starship Enterprise
kezza wrote:
Channel 7 news said that the AFL has knocked back our request for an extra pick in the upcoming draft.
Not sure if we applied again or this is old news.
Seriously would it have been that big of a deal if we were allowed an extra pick?
We are not asking for any compensation, just a pick at the end of the draft.
Wonder what their response would have been if this was a club such as the Suns who found themselves in this position.


When one looks at the compensation clubs such as Suns, Demons; cheats, have received over the years due to their own ineptitude or illegal actions and we receive nothing due to the AFLs own policy it reeks of restraint of trade as yet another source of action.

Our new administration has shown it is strong internally now it needs to show some external strength and publically challenge the AFL on the facts and its history of precedents previously set.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 9:18 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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kezza wrote:
Channel 7 news said that the AFL has knocked back our request for an extra pick in the upcoming draft.
Not sure if we applied again or this is old news.
Seriously would it have been that big of a deal if we were allowed an extra pick?
We are not asking for any compensation, just a pick at the end of the draft.
Wonder what their response would have been if this was a club such as the Suns who found themselves in this position.


Let's hypothesize here ......
OK Jones is 1 player. What if 3 decided to retire OR 6 OR 9 what would the AFL do then? I'm sure it would be a lot different.
The AFL are telling us that Jones is expendable.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 7:23 am 
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John Nicholls
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Did I misunderstand when Cook said, in his interview yesterday, that other clubs may find themselves in a similar boat and perhaps the AFL is waiting to understand numbers before deciding anything...?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 7:32 am 
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Rod Ashman
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Teddy Hopkins wrote:
kezza wrote:
Channel 7 news said that the AFL has knocked back our request for an extra pick in the upcoming draft.
Not sure if we applied again or this is old news.
Seriously would it have been that big of a deal if we were allowed an extra pick?
We are not asking for any compensation, just a pick at the end of the draft.
Wonder what their response would have been if this was a club such as the Suns who found themselves in this position.


When one looks at the compensation clubs such as Suns, Demons; cheats, have received over the years due to their own ineptitude or illegal actions and we receive nothing due to the AFLs own policy it reeks of restraint of trade as yet another source of action.

Our new administration has shown it is strong internally now it needs to show some external strength and publically challenge the AFL on the facts and its history of precedents previously set.


I agree with your comments.

The AFL loves to copy the NFL in everything from woke politics to player unions to tv rights to salary caps etc...
I am surprised they didn't realise that the NFL doesn't have a blanket policy on this.

Aaron Rogers - a fit athlete - actually survived COVID 19!! shock! horror! If you are under 50 your survival rate is 99% so really I can see how they can mount an argument not to take the vaccine if you are in this age group. (I have taken the vaccine, but I can at least rationalise people having different views. The media tell us not to rationalise different attitudes.)

btw - if Carlton was losing someone of the ability or importance of a fringe player I would be a lot more accepting of this situation, but Liam Jones is a key pillar of the spine. This blanket policy is not of Carlton's making, so the AFL needs to step up and take consequence of their decisions.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/n ... 284838001/


Last edited by tap in 79 on Fri Nov 19, 2021 7:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 7:39 am 
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Geoff Southby
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robertbb wrote:
Did I misunderstand when Cook said, in his interview yesterday, that other clubs may find themselves in a similar boat and perhaps the AFL is waiting to understand numbers before deciding anything...?

I took what he said to mean that the AFL is reluctant to give us anything because it will create an unwanted precedent for when this situation arises again.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 7:44 am 
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Rod Ashman
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aboynamedsue wrote:
robertbb wrote:
Did I misunderstand when Cook said, in his interview yesterday, that other clubs may find themselves in a similar boat and perhaps the AFL is waiting to understand numbers before deciding anything...?

I took what he said to mean that the AFL is reluctant to give us anything because it will create an unwanted precedent for when this situation arises again.


But the AFL (largely at the forceful prompting of the govt) made this policy - so there are consequences for every decision.

You can't run away from the consequences of those decisions.

If Tom from down the road decides to drink and drive and he runs into a lamp post and destroys his car - HE has to take consequence for that decision to drink and drive. He has to pay for it. He has to own up.

We live in a society where people make decisions and feel they can run away from the consequences of those decisions.

If the AFL did COVID testing before every game-and had an education policy on COVID - that is ANOTHER way of dealing with this. They went down the coercion path - so take ownership of that path.

If 6 people don't want to take the vaccine - take ownership of the outcomes of your policy. Six clubs (if players are from six different clubs) ALL need to be compensated.

This is simple stuff.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:44 am 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
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aboynamedsue wrote:
robertbb wrote:
Did I misunderstand when Cook said, in his interview yesterday, that other clubs may find themselves in a similar boat and perhaps the AFL is waiting to understand numbers before deciding anything...?

I took what he said to mean that the AFL is reluctant to give us anything because it will create an unwanted precedent for when this situation arises again.

Same.

From the AFL perspective, the ‘situation’ isn’t limited to covid and vaccinations, rather every retirement that’s lodged after the deadline.

Liam announced his retirement after the 2pm deadline on Wednesday 10th. I suppose that means we can only fill that spot during the SSP beginning in January?… or worse, the mid-season draft.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 11:58 am 
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formerly Fevola

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Nice position Liam put us in..just shows the culture we have. could have at least done it before.


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