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John Elliott - RIP
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Author:  dannyboy [ Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: John Elliott - RIP
RIP
Author:  Cazzesman [ Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: John Elliott - RIP
sinbagger wrote:
Cazzesman wrote:
Neil Mitchell on 3AW suggesting this morning the Elliot's name go back on the stand.

Why is it that after a person dies all their past sins, selfishness and gross misdeeds should be forgotten and forgiven. I don't get that. Why sweep stuff under the carpet and pretend it didn't happen. It happened. It's not Fake News.

I get the stories that Elliot loved the club. I'm sure they are all true. But if that is true why did he single handedly bring it to it's knees with the 'Brown Paper Bag Affair' and his lust for more and more power.

I don't want to speak ill of the dead but let's call a spade a #$%^ shovel. Elliot's selfish, megalomaniac actions as President of the Carlton Football club ultimately sewed the seed for close to a generation of failure.

He may well have been a great bloke, funny, gregarious, generous, a larrikin, a fine businessman and great father. But I only know him as the guy that cast a black cloud over the Club I support and bought it to the brink of handing back the keys to the AFL in 2002.

If Ian Collins had not come to the rescue I doubt Michael Voss would have had a club to Coach today.

For those that loved and admired Elliot, commiserations on your loss. Just please don't start to re-write history. I was there.

Regards Cazzesman


Forgive me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t every club handing out paper bags and we were just unlucky as being the club picked to be made an example of?

If it was the scum who were first singled out and Elliot cleaned up his act like the other clubs did after the fact then we all wouldn’t be questioning his legacy.


Guess that makes it all alright then. :thumbsup:

But........................................(from the Age - Sept 13th 2002- Collins also said Carlton's debt was $9 million, about "triple that of any other AFL club". He said the social club, which carries most of the debt, was probably technically insolvent and Carlton faced a trading loss of up to $1 million this season - a figure disputed by Elliott, who put the loss at $500,000.

The Brown Paper bags cost the club $1 million (rightly or wrongly) plus the loss of all those draft picks. But that was the tip of the iceberg.
Elliot had the club running on the 'never, never.' With no money coming in the club could hardly function. It was running on the smell of an oily rag.

In 2004 when I first started the 'Recruiting Department', for want of a better name, was basically 1 man and a dog and I was the dog.

I kid you not, there was Wayne Hughes full time and about 5 part timers across Australia. Shane O'Sullivan helped out, but he had his other job at the club. It went on like that for years. Hughesy was basically a one man band. I was part time, brand new and trying to find my feet and I was traveling all around the country. The club simply couldn't afford to pay another full timer.

Denis Pagan arrived thinking he was coming to the Mega AFL club and couldn't believe the financial state it was in. Sinbagger it goes far deeper than Lunch Bags.

Regards Cazzesman
Author:  Rod Spooky Galt [ Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: John Elliott - RIP
Cazzesman wrote:
Rod Spooky Galt wrote:


So, so, so good RSG. Nail/Head.

Regards Cazzesman


Yeah but you had a beer or a piss with him one time so he was a great bloke...
Author:  camel [ Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: John Elliott - RIP
GWS wrote:
Uncanny timing as the club launches into a new era.


This was my first thought, too, quite symbolic timing…

GWS wrote:
He spent the last part of his life living two blocks from my business and I had dinner with him once a long time back. Despite his public image as an uncouth pig he came across as incredibly intelligent and remarkably polite.

I was never a fan of him as our president but I found myself liking him as a person.


…and thanks to you GWS, and plenty of others as well, for sharing the human side of Jack. I've never had any dealings with him and it's a side of him I'm not easily able to relate to.
Author:  sinbagger [ Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:40 am ]
Post subject:  John Elliott - RIP
Cazzesman wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
Cazzesman wrote:
Neil Mitchell on 3AW suggesting this morning the Elliot's name go back on the stand.

Why is it that after a person dies all their past sins, selfishness and gross misdeeds should be forgotten and forgiven. I don't get that. Why sweep stuff under the carpet and pretend it didn't happen. It happened. It's not Fake News.

I get the stories that Elliot loved the club. I'm sure they are all true. But if that is true why did he single handedly bring it to it's knees with the 'Brown Paper Bag Affair' and his lust for more and more power.

I don't want to speak ill of the dead but let's call a spade a #$%^ shovel. Elliot's selfish, megalomaniac actions as President of the Carlton Football club ultimately sewed the seed for close to a generation of failure.

He may well have been a great bloke, funny, gregarious, generous, a larrikin, a fine businessman and great father. But I only know him as the guy that cast a black cloud over the Club I support and bought it to the brink of handing back the keys to the AFL in 2002.

If Ian Collins had not come to the rescue I doubt Michael Voss would have had a club to Coach today.

For those that loved and admired Elliot, commiserations on your loss. Just please don't start to re-write history. I was there.

Regards Cazzesman


Forgive me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t every club handing out paper bags and we were just unlucky as being the club picked to be made an example of?

If it was the scum who were first singled out and Elliot cleaned up his act like the other clubs did after the fact then we all wouldn’t be questioning his legacy.


Guess that makes it all alright then. :thumbsup:

But........................................(from the Age - Sept 13th 2002- Collins also said Carlton's debt was $9 million, about "triple that of any other AFL club". He said the social club, which carries most of the debt, was probably technically insolvent and Carlton faced a trading loss of up to $1 million this season - a figure disputed by Elliott, who put the loss at $500,000.

The Brown Paper bags cost the club $1 million (rightly or wrongly) plus the loss of all those draft picks. But that was the tip of the iceberg.
Elliot had the club running on the 'never, never.' With no money coming in the club could hardly function. It was running on the smell of an oily rag.

In 2004 when I first started the 'Recruiting Department', for want of a better name, was basically 1 man and a dog and I was the dog.

I kid you not, there was Wayne Hughes full time and about 5 part timers across Australia. Shane O'Sullivan helped out, but he had his other job at the club. It went on like that for years. Hughesy was basically a one man band. I was part time, brand new and trying to find my feet and I was traveling all around the country. The club simply couldn't afford to pay another full timer.

Denis Pagan arrived thinking he was coming to the Mega AFL club and couldn't believe the financial state it was in. Sinbagger it goes far deeper than Lunch Bags.

Regards Cazzesman


Fair enough but you didn’t mention any of that in your original post, this one is clearer.

As others have mentioned I think we all have mixed feelings about his legacy, a guy like him was always either going to orbit the sun or crash and burn. He managed to do both for Carlton. RIP.
Author:  keogh [ Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: John Elliott - RIP
kingkerna wrote:
keogh wrote:
Great then partially destroyed the club
An arrogant individual who was outdated long before they took his name off the grandstand

Arrogance is required in that role

Sent from my SM-G986B using Tapatalk


Arrogance by definition is an over exaggerated view of ones’s self worth.
That spells poor leadership.
In 1987 I ticked a box in life.
I witnessed a Carlton flag live
Actually we won the magoos as well

Needless to say I watch the reply the next day including the post match stuff from the ABC

Peter Gee interviewed Elliott on the ground afterwards and he said he would step down as President after we win our next one.
If only he fulfilled his promise
The club wouldn’t have endured the shit we have had to put up with the last 20 years.
Sure he was sacked 20 years ago but the damage had been done

Sometimes you’ve got to know when to hold them
Sometimes you’ve got to know when to fold them
Elliotts time was up
In 1995.
His arrogance meant he stayed on too long.
That’s what individuals with distorted views on how great they are do
Author:  jamespul65 [ Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: John Elliott - RIP
good or bad John Elliot was a great carlton person ,may he RIP.
Author:  frank dardew [ Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: John Elliott - RIP
Good posts Cazz and you are right about the mess he left when he exited the Presidency at Carlton and nearly cost us our club absolutely diabolical

No acknowledgement at all that he ever did anything wrong

Did preside over flags so on that level successful but otherwise very destructive and tended to leave whatever organisation he was in charge of either football or business in a frightful mess and with difficulties with the regulators
Colourful Racing /Sports Identity would be the description most apt

And before those acolytes shoot me down there also was a matter of what he said on oath to the National Crime Association too back in the day

Getting a good ride on 3AW his daughter in law interviewing his son her husband eulogising Jack -butter wouldn’t melt in the mouth
If you want a balanced assessment have a look at the articles in SMH

Here in Melbourne pure hagiography
Author:  Phoenix [ Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: John Elliott - RIP
Cazzesman wrote:
Neil Mitchell on 3AW suggesting this morning the Elliot's name go back on the stand.

Why is it that after a person dies all their past sins, selfishness and gross misdeeds should be forgotten and forgiven. I don't get that. Why sweep stuff under the carpet and pretend it didn't happen. It happened. It's not Fake News.

I get the stories that Elliot loved the club. I'm sure they are all true. But if that is true why did he single handedly bring it to it's knees with the 'Brown Paper Bag Affair' and his lust for more and more power.

I don't want to speak ill of the dead but let's call a spade a #$%^ shovel. Elliot's selfish, megalomaniac actions as President of the Carlton Football club ultimately sewed the seed for close to a generation of failure.

He may well have been a great bloke, funny, gregarious, generous, a larrikin, a fine businessman and great father. But I only know him as the guy that cast a black cloud over the Club I support and bought it to the brink of handing back the keys to the AFL in 2002.

If Ian Collins had not come to the rescue I doubt Michael Voss would have had a club to Coach today.

For those that loved and admired Elliot, commiserations on your loss. Just please don't start to re-write history. I was there.


Regards Cazzesman


Here what you're saying but perhaps today's not the day for this, probably a bit early for these sorts of comments
Author:  billc3 [ Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: John Elliott - RIP
Heavs wrote:
I guess this means the curse is done?
I was thinking exactly the same thing.... and I am a very science /facts based individual! :smile:

Go Blues
Author:  Mickstar [ Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: John Elliott - RIP
RIP....................... i like triers myself . And Jack tried his very best for our Club . Did what he thought was best at the time . Sure , things went haywire , but he didn't deliberately stuff the Club . Poor judgement aint a crime and i for one will be forever grateful to a man who served our Club to the best of his ability for so long .

PS..............reckon he would be wrapped we signed Vossy . Jack loved the glamour , the superstars , the people with aura . Yep , he will be happy for sure ..................bring "em home to the Heatley end .
Author:  london blue [ Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: John Elliott - RIP
Mickstar wrote:
RIP....................... i like triers myself . And Jack tried his very best for our Club . Did what he thought was best at the time . Sure , things went haywire , but he didn't deliberately stuff the Club . Poor judgement aint a crime and i for one will be forever grateful to a man who served our Club to the best of his ability for so long .

PS..............reckon he would be wrapped we signed Vossy . Jack loved the glamour , the superstars , the people with aura . Yep , he will be happy for sure ..................bring "em home to the Heatley end .


Brilliant! Thanks Mickstar
Author:  GWS [ Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: John Elliott - RIP
Mickstar wrote:
Poor judgement aint a crime...


It is sometimes... :lol:
Author:  TheDenominator [ Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: John Elliott - RIP
keogh wrote:
kingkerna wrote:
keogh wrote:
Great then partially destroyed the club
An arrogant individual who was outdated long before they took his name off the grandstand

Arrogance is required in that role

Sent from my SM-G986B using Tapatalk


Arrogance by definition is an over exaggerated view of ones’s self worth.
That spells poor leadership.
In 1987 I ticked a box in life.
I witnessed a Carlton flag live
Actually we won the magoos as well

Needless to say I watch the reply the next day including the post match stuff from the ABC

Peter Gee interviewed Elliott on the ground afterwards and he said he would step down as President after we win our next one.
If only he fulfilled his promise
The club wouldn’t have endured the shit we have had to put up with the last 20 years.
Sure he was sacked 20 years ago but the damage had been done

Sometimes you’ve got to know when to hold them
Sometimes you’ve got to know when to fold them
Elliotts time was up
In 1995.
His arrogance meant he stayed on too long.
That’s what individuals with distorted views on how great they are do


@#$%&! mate, let the bloke rest in peace

RIP Big Jack
Author:  Rexy [ Sat Sep 25, 2021 10:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: John Elliott - RIP
Sorry, but in my view he was an embarrassment for the football club and lived off the hard work of others.

Then, as a person, who could forget this...
Author:  frank dardew [ Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: John Elliott - RIP
No poor judgment isn’t a crime lying on oath to the National Crime Authority is
Very lucky not to be sent to jail


I get we all want to airbrush history but let’s be reasonable in our assessments
Author:  keogh [ Sat Sep 25, 2021 1:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: John Elliott - RIP
TheDenominator wrote:
keogh wrote:
kingkerna wrote:
keogh wrote:
Great then partially destroyed the club
An arrogant individual who was outdated long before they took his name off the grandstand

Arrogance is required in that role

Sent from my SM-G986B using Tapatalk


Arrogance by definition is an over exaggerated view of ones’s self worth.
That spells poor leadership.
In 1987 I ticked a box in life.
I witnessed a Carlton flag live
Actually we won the magoos as well

Needless to say I watch the reply the next day including the post match stuff from the ABC

Peter Gee interviewed Elliott on the ground afterwards and he said he would step down as President after we win our next one.
If only he fulfilled his promise
The club wouldn’t have endured the shit we have had to put up with the last 20 years.
Sure he was sacked 20 years ago but the damage had been done

Sometimes you’ve got to know when to hold them
Sometimes you’ve got to know when to fold them
Elliotts time was up
In 1995.
His arrogance meant he stayed on too long.
That’s what individuals with distorted views on how great they are do


@#$%&! mate, let the bloke rest in peace

RIP Big Jack

I was responding to a post about arrogance
Arrogance creates a toxic work place
The one thing constant in life is change
Some people don’t recognize that
Author:  TheBluesMuse [ Sat Sep 25, 2021 2:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: John Elliott - RIP
I met Jack quite a few times. My only memorable interaction with him was when we were hanging around the players at naughtons hotel, I think it was? Sometime after the 95’ grand final and he handed my mate Danielle a $20 note and told as to skedaddle …he said something about it not being the right place for young girls. The old bugger kicked us out pretty much …I hated him for it at the time but on reflection it was probably a decent thing to do.

RIP
Author:  Teddy Hopkins [ Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: John Elliott - RIP
TheDenominator wrote:
keogh wrote:
kingkerna wrote:
keogh wrote:
Great then partially destroyed the club
An arrogant individual who was outdated long before they took his name off the grandstand

Arrogance is required in that role

Sent from my SM-G986B using Tapatalk


Arrogance by definition is an over exaggerated view of ones’s self worth.
That spells poor leadership.
In 1987 I ticked a box in life.
I witnessed a Carlton flag live
Actually we won the magoos as well

Needless to say I watch the reply the next day including the post match stuff from the ABC

Peter Gee interviewed Elliott on the ground afterwards and he said he would step down as President after we win our next one.
If only he fulfilled his promise
The club wouldn’t have endured the shit we have had to put up with the last 20 years.
Sure he was sacked 20 years ago but the damage had been done

Sometimes you’ve got to know when to hold them
Sometimes you’ve got to know when to fold them
Elliotts time was up
In 1995.
His arrogance meant he stayed on too long.
That’s what individuals with distorted views on how great they are do


@#$%&! mate, let the bloke rest in peace

RIP Big Jack


All posters are doing are revealing the complete Jack Elliott. What people forget is that he was a great self promoter, something very important when he was in the business of consumer products. He may have loved CFC but I can't help thinking that it was in his interest as well.

Plus CFC won two flags in his 20 year era. Compared to the immediate past it was not a great return.

Then as we all know he almost single handedly destroyed the club. Something we as supporters are still suffering for.

Have ANY other premiership winning CFC presidents ever caused the harm Jack Elliott did.

It is not so much as speaking ill of the dead but looking at the history.
Author:  Cazzesman [ Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: John Elliott - RIP
Teddy Hopkins wrote:
TheDenominator wrote:
keogh wrote:
kingkerna wrote:
keogh wrote:
Great then partially destroyed the club
An arrogant individual who was outdated long before they took his name off the grandstand

Arrogance is required in that role

Sent from my SM-G986B using Tapatalk


Arrogance by definition is an over exaggerated view of ones’s self worth.
That spells poor leadership.
In 1987 I ticked a box in life.
I witnessed a Carlton flag live
Actually we won the magoos as well

Needless to say I watch the reply the next day including the post match stuff from the ABC

Peter Gee interviewed Elliott on the ground afterwards and he said he would step down as President after we win our next one.
If only he fulfilled his promise
The club wouldn’t have endured the shit we have had to put up with the last 20 years.
Sure he was sacked 20 years ago but the damage had been done

Sometimes you’ve got to know when to hold them
Sometimes you’ve got to know when to fold them
Elliotts time was up
In 1995.
His arrogance meant he stayed on too long.
That’s what individuals with distorted views on how great they are do


@#$%&! mate, let the bloke rest in peace

RIP Big Jack


All posters are doing are revealing the complete Jack Elliott. What people forget is that he was a great self promoter, something very important when he was in the business of consumer products. He may have loved CFC but I can't help thinking that it was in his interest as well.

Plus CFC won two flags in his 20 year era. Compared to the immediate past it was not a great return.

Then as we all know he almost single handedly destroyed the club. Something we as supporters are still suffering for.

Have ANY other premiership winning CFC presidents ever caused the harm Jack Elliott did.

It is not so much as speaking ill of the dead but looking at the history.


Well put Teddy. It's the truth when they were alive and it's still same when they are not.

Regards Cazzesman
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