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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:45 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
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The theory of keeping the coach and backing him to improve is only valid when the coach is willing to change.
Teague appeared intent on making "his plan" work and the resultant outcomes indicated a reluctance to compromise.
If that was in fact the outcome of the review, the correct decision was made.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 2:49 pm 
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Robert Walls

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Blue Vain wrote:
The theory of keeping the coach and backing him to improve is only valid when the coach is willing to change.
Teague appeared intent on making "his plan" work and the resultant outcomes indicated a reluctance to compromise.
If that was in fact the outcome of the review, the correct decision was made.


Correct...which, despite all the niceties, platitudes and praise thrown his way toward the end actually shows he was an incredibly immature, ill-equipped, possibly arrogant leader of men with little situational awareness

The Review was scathing on him...more than even I imagined

I wish him well but he will not be missed!!

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 2:52 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Maybe our broader failing was we didn't give him a Roos type for his first few years like Goodwin got. Although that would've been bloody difficult with Covid

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:55 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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jim wrote:
Kouta wrote:
dannyboy wrote:
He speaks a lot better than I expected.

Surprising and a lot more eloquent than Teague.

Enjoyed his interview with Barrett.

Was sacked, but there's a Caroline Wilson article stating that Melbourne's former President who is still a board member tried to remove Goodwin as coach.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/sim ... 58uaa.html

Quote:
Looking back over Goodwin

Right or wrong, Bartlett had his doubts about Goodwin. Richmond’s Damien Hardwick went on to become a three-time premiership coach over the next four years. Melbourne’s new president Kate Roffey believes Goodwin has put in place a team capable of doing something similar.


Voss was arguably too green after landing a senior coaching role without doing a coaching apprenticeship for more than two years. Recall Collingwood signing Tony Shaw because they didn't want him to join Carlton as an assistant coach. That was also disastrous. Hope Voss has learnt from his past.


4 clubs did major reviews, part to decide the fate of the coach. All 4 kept their coach, put good people around them, really supported their coach, streamlined their tasks amongst other things and all went on to play in the Grand Final the next year, 3 of them winning, 2 of them creating a dynasty. They kept their struggling coaches, we just sack ours at the drop of a hat. Given our last coach was the best performed since Ratten (bit sad when you think about that) good people around him, a few tweaks in the way we played, especially the want of the players to defend better, and you never know. We won more games than with the last couple of coaches and were rarely ever beaten by over 5 goals. Only would have needed a better culture and commitment, much better support, a much smaller injury list and we could well gone from scoreboard competitive near every week to have played finals. We were right in the hunt with 3 games to go.

Goodwin's last 2 years previous were 17th and 9th, worse overall than Teague's last 2 seasons. After 2018, he won 8 of his next 30, and now 24 1/2 out of the next 32. Amazing what happens when you are supported properly.

Anyway, reading the SEN article today, looks like the penny has dropped. Voss will be heavily supported not hung out to dry like our last 2 coaches. Maybe there's a lesson learnt and maybe this means now we can move on and get back to the club to former glories.


What are the four clubs you are mentioning?

1- Richmond - but Hardwick had played in 3 finals series before the threat of the sack.
2- Melbourne - had played in the 2018 finals series. (made finals 2nd year of coaching)

not sure who the other two are who did the review that you are mentioning, but these coaches had runs on the board in terms of at least making finals before the pressure came. Carlton has too many talented players not to at least compete for finals. Something isn't right. Weitering, Saad, Newman are all very good players. Our defence should be our strength.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 5:30 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22930
Location: Bondi Beach
99prelim wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
The theory of keeping the coach and backing him to improve is only valid when the coach is willing to change.
Teague appeared intent on making "his plan" work and the resultant outcomes indicated a reluctance to compromise.
If that was in fact the outcome of the review, the correct decision was made.


Correct...which, despite all the niceties, platitudes and praise thrown his way toward the end actually shows he was an incredibly immature, ill-equipped, possibly arrogant leader of men with little situational awareness

The Review was scathing on him...more than even I imagined

I wish him well but he will not be missed!!



Mark Maclure said on 360 Teague was a bit arrogant or too stubborn to change his game plan.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:19 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
Posts: 3449
bondiblue wrote:
99prelim wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
The theory of keeping the coach and backing him to improve is only valid when the coach is willing to change.
Teague appeared intent on making "his plan" work and the resultant outcomes indicated a reluctance to compromise.
If that was in fact the outcome of the review, the correct decision was made.


Correct...which, despite all the niceties, platitudes and praise thrown his way toward the end actually shows he was an incredibly immature, ill-equipped, possibly arrogant leader of men with little situational awareness

The Review was scathing on him...more than even I imagined

I wish him well but he will not be missed!!



Mark Maclure said on 360 Teague was a bit arrogant or too stubborn to change his game plan.


Well there you go...I can honestly say I'm not quoting anybody...it was so clear that week after week after week, despite all the criticisms in the media, nothing changed...UNTIL the Review was announced...that's when I smelt a rat...Teague was no Bambi

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:20 pm 
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Horrie Clover
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Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:14 pm
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tap in 79 wrote:
jim wrote:
Kouta wrote:
dannyboy wrote:
He speaks a lot better than I expected.

Surprising and a lot more eloquent than Teague.

Enjoyed his interview with Barrett.

Was sacked, but there's a Caroline Wilson article stating that Melbourne's former President who is still a board member tried to remove Goodwin as coach.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/sim ... 58uaa.html

Quote:
Looking back over Goodwin

Right or wrong, Bartlett had his doubts about Goodwin. Richmond’s Damien Hardwick went on to become a three-time premiership coach over the next four years. Melbourne’s new president Kate Roffey believes Goodwin has put in place a team capable of doing something similar.


Voss was arguably too green after landing a senior coaching role without doing a coaching apprenticeship for more than two years. Recall Collingwood signing Tony Shaw because they didn't want him to join Carlton as an assistant coach. That was also disastrous. Hope Voss has learnt from his past.


4 clubs did major reviews, part to decide the fate of the coach. All 4 kept their coach, put good people around them, really supported their coach, streamlined their tasks amongst other things and all went on to play in the Grand Final the next year, 3 of them winning, 2 of them creating a dynasty. They kept their struggling coaches, we just sack ours at the drop of a hat. Given our last coach was the best performed since Ratten (bit sad when you think about that) good people around him, a few tweaks in the way we played, especially the want of the players to defend better, and you never know. We won more games than with the last couple of coaches and were rarely ever beaten by over 5 goals. Only would have needed a better culture and commitment, much better support, a much smaller injury list and we could well gone from scoreboard competitive near every week to have played finals. We were right in the hunt with 3 games to go.

Goodwin's last 2 years previous were 17th and 9th, worse overall than Teague's last 2 seasons. After 2018, he won 8 of his next 30, and now 24 1/2 out of the next 32. Amazing what happens when you are supported properly.

Anyway, reading the SEN article today, looks like the penny has dropped. Voss will be heavily supported not hung out to dry like our last 2 coaches. Maybe there's a lesson learnt and maybe this means now we can move on and get back to the club to former glories.


What are the four clubs you are mentioning?

1- Richmond - but Hardwick had played in 3 finals series before the threat of the sack.
2- Melbourne - had played in the 2018 finals series. (made finals 2nd year of coaching)

not sure who the other two are who did the review that you are mentioning, but these coaches had runs on the board in terms of at least making finals before the pressure came. Carlton has too many talented players not to at least compete for finals. Something isn't right. Weitering, Saad, Newman are all very good players. Our defence should be our strength.


Geelong with Thompson (2005 odd) and Collingwood with Buckley.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 7:55 am 
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Rod Ashman
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Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 10:58 am
Posts: 2032
thryleon wrote:
tap in 79 wrote:
jim wrote:
Kouta wrote:
dannyboy wrote:
He speaks a lot better than I expected.

Surprising and a lot more eloquent than Teague.

Enjoyed his interview with Barrett.

Was sacked, but there's a Caroline Wilson article stating that Melbourne's former President who is still a board member tried to remove Goodwin as coach.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/sim ... 58uaa.html

Quote:
Looking back over Goodwin

Right or wrong, Bartlett had his doubts about Goodwin. Richmond’s Damien Hardwick went on to become a three-time premiership coach over the next four years. Melbourne’s new president Kate Roffey believes Goodwin has put in place a team capable of doing something similar.


Voss was arguably too green after landing a senior coaching role without doing a coaching apprenticeship for more than two years. Recall Collingwood signing Tony Shaw because they didn't want him to join Carlton as an assistant coach. That was also disastrous. Hope Voss has learnt from his past.


4 clubs did major reviews, part to decide the fate of the coach. All 4 kept their coach, put good people around them, really supported their coach, streamlined their tasks amongst other things and all went on to play in the Grand Final the next year, 3 of them winning, 2 of them creating a dynasty. They kept their struggling coaches, we just sack ours at the drop of a hat. Given our last coach was the best performed since Ratten (bit sad when you think about that) good people around him, a few tweaks in the way we played, especially the want of the players to defend better, and you never know. We won more games than with the last couple of coaches and were rarely ever beaten by over 5 goals. Only would have needed a better culture and commitment, much better support, a much smaller injury list and we could well gone from scoreboard competitive near every week to have played finals. We were right in the hunt with 3 games to go.

Goodwin's last 2 years previous were 17th and 9th, worse overall than Teague's last 2 seasons. After 2018, he won 8 of his next 30, and now 24 1/2 out of the next 32. Amazing what happens when you are supported properly.

Anyway, reading the SEN article today, looks like the penny has dropped. Voss will be heavily supported not hung out to dry like our last 2 coaches. Maybe there's a lesson learnt and maybe this means now we can move on and get back to the club to former glories.


What are the four clubs you are mentioning?

1- Richmond - but Hardwick had played in 3 finals series before the threat of the sack.
2- Melbourne - had played in the 2018 finals series. (made finals 2nd year of coaching)

not sure who the other two are who did the review that you are mentioning, but these coaches had runs on the board in terms of at least making finals before the pressure came. Carlton has too many talented players not to at least compete for finals. Something isn't right. Weitering, Saad, Newman are all very good players. Our defence should be our strength.


Geelong with Thompson (2005 odd) and Collingwood with Buckley.


Oh ok, well both those coaches had runs on the board in terms of making finals.

The Thompson one - he had built a young team, they won the pre-season cup in 2006? after winning 15 games in 2004...so they at least had evidence of a strong team. They just needed to tinker.

The thing that is ultra concerning is we had the 2nd worst defence in the league.
Why?
We've got Weitering - the best centre half-back in the whole comp.
We've got Jones - also a great player.
Saad, Newman, Dochety, Stocker seems hard at it, Zac Williams - they are good players.

Are we putting the right players in defence in the right match-ups?

What the hell was going on down there?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:07 am 
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formerly Fevola

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:57 pm
Posts: 4432
Did anyone hear what Fev said on his radio show this morning?

He wanted to set the record straight on Voss. He said he was a good coach, but at the time Fev said he was impossible to coach. He was in a bad headspace, he was entering rehab. He said Voss didnt know he was being recruited and it was forced on him.

He said Voss has unfairly been blamed for it all, and it would have been hard at his age to be coaching the likes of Brown and him etc.

He said he hoped to cross paths with him someday and clear the air with him.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:08 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 2434
And even with runs on the board, Goodwin entered 2021 as the coach under most pressure.
The major change he made on field this season was a strong defensive system.
This plan enabled May and Lever to largely control the backline.

As distinct from us where Weitering and Jones were under huge amounts of pressure every time the ball entered the backline, often in 1-on-1 contests with limited backup defenders for support. It was either win the 1-on-1s or bust. This changed a bit after the Review was announced.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:00 am 
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Geoff Southby
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I’m not going to get too ahead of myself but this appointment feels like it’s part of a greater plan and not just a “oh here is a new coach who will fix it all”. It really feels like we’re taking a holistic approach and we are attempting a culture shift for the entire club.

How many of us have been constantly let down by players turning up one week then putting their head down and sulking the next? Surely we have enough talent to be competitive week in week out, why isn’t it happening? Etc.

I like how Diesel and others have made comment about Voss never giving up, they obviously value this trait and admire the way Voss has dealt with the path he’s had so far.

I’m intrigued and nervous and looking forward to next couple of years.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:06 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 2434
In speaking to a few other Blues supporters, it is interesting to note that there is clearly less excitement about the Voss appointment than there was with any of the other appointments going back to Malthouse.
I am not sure whether this is partly due to being burned and having expectations dashed a few too many times over the past 10 years or more. ANd partly due to gunning for Clarkson (& to a lesser extent Lyon) but then ending up with what may appear as a 3rd choice (or worse).

I think this won't really change until Round 1 at the earliest or more likely 3 rounds in to next season when we start to see how Voss is influencing the team and the game plan.
There will, no doubt, be a premature response during the pre-season; either undue optimism or undue doom and gloom. But it will be very difficult to get a sense of the Voss effect until a few games into the season.

Personally, I am quietly optimistic. Precisely because there is less hype. As TheBluesMuse notes, it feels like the coaching appointment is but one of several designed to turn things around.
Voss was flagged straight out of the game as a senior coach in waiting and was too quick to jump into a senior role. Where, by the way, he did pretty well initially until the wheels fell off.
And since then, he has done what he should have done to begin with - a significant apprenticeship, which also includes 5 years at the helm of his own club.

I'm looking forward to next season. I think we can make some big strides.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:51 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Was initially underwhelmed but then I realised I was judging Voss on his Brisbane coaching stint, which may as well have been a lifetime ago.

I'm cautiously optimistic now, and by the start of the season I'll probably be at "we won't lose a single game"!

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:24 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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I've been pretty consistent in my view that they might as well just hand us the cup now

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:38 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:23 am
Posts: 1566
99prelim wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
99prelim wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
The theory of keeping the coach and backing him to improve is only valid when the coach is willing to change.
Teague appeared intent on making "his plan" work and the resultant outcomes indicated a reluctance to compromise.
If that was in fact the outcome of the review, the correct decision was made.


Correct...which, despite all the niceties, platitudes and praise thrown his way toward the end actually shows he was an incredibly immature, ill-equipped, possibly arrogant leader of men with little situational awareness

The Review was scathing on him...more than even I imagined

I wish him well but he will not be missed!!



Mark Maclure said on 360 Teague was a bit arrogant or too stubborn to change his game plan.


Well there you go...I can honestly say I'm not quoting anybody...it was so clear that week after week after week, despite all the criticisms in the media, nothing changed...UNTIL the Review was announced...that's when I smelt a rat...Teague was no Bambi

Correct this victim card Teague tried to play was hilarious and pitiful !!

Who knows if Voss is the answer but the fact that Diesel and parko were involved , walls called out Teague a year ago , shows the club made the right decision with Teague
Sayers said this is a reset after a loss of 2 years of development, hopefully they get the right coaches around Voss and we get the ball rolling

Melbourne had 8 players under 21 in their side on Saturday, they missed the 8 for 2 years before this year ,,, so development is crucial

Anything can happen ,

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Last edited by azzablue on Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:43 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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CK95 wrote:
I've been pretty consistent in my view that they might as well just hand us the cup now
:clap: :clap:
:lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:15 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:22 am
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GMCbris wrote:
CK95 wrote:
I've been pretty consistent in my view that they might as well just hand us the cup now
:clap: :clap:
:lol:


I REALLY REALLY miss the days where this was my default demeanour! Every match. Haven't felt like that for about 20 years. Well, probably about 15 years... took a few years for it to fade after we hit rock bottom (the first time)


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:43 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
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There is often this perception with Voss that he took over a great Brisbane side
In the previous 4 years to Voss taking over from Matthews they had not made the finals and won 36 /88 -40% winning margin
Voss 1st first year he took them back to the finals but struggled from there on
I don't think Matthews left him much to work with and in hindsight Voss probably should have gone full rebuild mode but in a market like Brisbane at that time it would have been a tough call

I am like everybody else unsure on how it will work out
We can only hope for the best and surely with the talent he has at his disposal he can can get them believing in their own abilities

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:05 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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CK95 wrote:
I've been pretty consistent in my view that they might as well just hand us the cup now

:grin: :grin:

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:01 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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CK95 wrote:
I've been pretty consistent in my view that they might as well just hand us the cup now

My sentiments exactly.
However, I also thought this when we got D. Pagan and then M. Malthouse. :smoking:
Hopefully third time lucky. :thumbsup:

GO BLUES!

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