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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:28 am 
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Geoff Southby
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Location: Conservative Brisbane :O(
Had Lyon and worsfold as assistants and we were going ok at the time. Been pretty bare with assistants and success since then.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 8:10 am 
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Ken Hands

Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:54 pm
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AGRO wrote:
The key is getting a great assistant coaching group together.

Then it’s important that they work really well together and not play politics and score points off each other.

:thumbsup:

Spot on Agro, crucial we get our assistants right or Voss will be pushing shit up hill with a stick. Can’t do it by himself.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 10:13 am 
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Wayne Johnston

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Kouta wrote:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWfj5wt6NtY


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 10:30 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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The appointment of Voss, together with Cook, shows Sayers means business.

Finally some genuine reasons to get excited.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:54 am 
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Ken Hunter
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He speaks a lot better than I expected.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 12:15 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:13 pm
Posts: 20967
Location: Missing Kouta
dannyboy wrote:
He speaks a lot better than I expected.

Surprising and a lot more eloquent than Teague.

Enjoyed his interview with Barrett.

Was sacked, but there's a Caroline Wilson article stating that Melbourne's former President who is still a board member tried to remove Goodwin as coach.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/sim ... 58uaa.html

Quote:
Looking back over Goodwin’s difficult two seasons that followed the 2018 preliminary final loss in Perth to the 2021 minor premiership and devastating September run to the grand final, is also reminiscent of Richmond at the end of 2016. Then as now both the coach and the board had come under significant pressure. In both cases the coach survived and thrived. In Richmond’s case the president stared down her opponents and, while overseeing a number of changes, strongly backed the coach.

Right or wrong, Bartlett had his doubts about Goodwin. Richmond’s Damien Hardwick went on to become a three-time premiership coach over the next four years. Melbourne’s new president Kate Roffey believes Goodwin has put in place a team capable of doing something similar.


Voss was arguably too green after landing a senior coaching role without doing a coaching apprenticeship for more than two years. Recall Collingwood signing Tony Shaw because they didn't want him to join Carlton as an assistant coach. That was also disastrous. Hope Voss has learnt from his past.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 12:18 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Will be on 3AW around 1pm

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 8:05 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:22 am
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:12 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:21 pm
Posts: 7749
Kouta wrote:
dannyboy wrote:
He speaks a lot better than I expected.

Surprising and a lot more eloquent than Teague.

Enjoyed his interview with Barrett.

Was sacked, but there's a Caroline Wilson article stating that Melbourne's former President who is still a board member tried to remove Goodwin as coach.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/sim ... 58uaa.html

Quote:
Looking back over Goodwin’s difficult two seasons that followed the 2018 preliminary final loss in Perth to the 2021 minor premiership and devastating September run to the grand final, is also reminiscent of Richmond at the end of 2016. Then as now both the coach and the board had come under significant pressure. In both cases the coach survived and thrived. In Richmond’s case the president stared down her opponents and, while overseeing a number of changes, strongly backed the coach.

Right or wrong, Bartlett had his doubts about Goodwin. Richmond’s Damien Hardwick went on to become a three-time premiership coach over the next four years. Melbourne’s new president Kate Roffey believes Goodwin has put in place a team capable of doing something similar.


Voss was arguably too green after landing a senior coaching role without doing a coaching apprenticeship for more than two years. Recall Collingwood signing Tony Shaw because they didn't want him to join Carlton as an assistant coach. That was also disastrous. Hope Voss has learnt from his past.


4 clubs did major reviews, part to decide the fate of the coach. All 4 kept their coach, put good people around them, really supported their coach, streamlined their tasks amongst other things and all went on to play in the Grand Final the next year, 3 of them winning, 2 of them creating a dynasty. They kept their struggling coaches, we just sack ours at the drop of a hat. Given our last coach was the best performed since Ratten (bit sad when you think about that) good people around him, a few tweaks in the way we played, especially the want of the players to defend better, and you never know. We won more games than with the last couple of coaches and were rarely ever beaten by over 5 goals. Only would have needed a better culture and commitment, much better support, a much smaller injury list and we could well gone from scoreboard competitive near every week to have played finals. We were right in the hunt with 3 games to go.

Goodwin's last 2 years previous were 17th and 9th, worse overall than Teague's last 2 seasons. After 2018, he won 8 of his next 30, and now 24 1/2 out of the next 32. Amazing what happens when you are supported properly.

Anyway, reading the SEN article today, looks like the penny has dropped. Voss will be heavily supported not hung out to dry like our last 2 coaches. Maybe there's a lesson learnt and maybe this means now we can move on and get back to the club to former glories.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 6:22 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Maybe having a review was the important bit, to find address issues, moreso than keeping the coach?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:26 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 2434
jim wrote:
Kouta wrote:
dannyboy wrote:
He speaks a lot better than I expected.

Surprising and a lot more eloquent than Teague.

Enjoyed his interview with Barrett.

Was sacked, but there's a Caroline Wilson article stating that Melbourne's former President who is still a board member tried to remove Goodwin as coach.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/sim ... 58uaa.html

Quote:
Looking back over Goodwin’s difficult two seasons that followed the 2018 preliminary final loss in Perth to the 2021 minor premiership and devastating September run to the grand final, is also reminiscent of Richmond at the end of 2016. Then as now both the coach and the board had come under significant pressure. In both cases the coach survived and thrived. In Richmond’s case the president stared down her opponents and, while overseeing a number of changes, strongly backed the coach.

Right or wrong, Bartlett had his doubts about Goodwin. Richmond’s Damien Hardwick went on to become a three-time premiership coach over the next four years. Melbourne’s new president Kate Roffey believes Goodwin has put in place a team capable of doing something similar.


Voss was arguably too green after landing a senior coaching role without doing a coaching apprenticeship for more than two years. Recall Collingwood signing Tony Shaw because they didn't want him to join Carlton as an assistant coach. That was also disastrous. Hope Voss has learnt from his past.


4 clubs did major reviews, part to decide the fate of the coach. All 4 kept their coach, put good people around them, really supported their coach, streamlined their tasks amongst other things and all went on to play in the Grand Final the next year, 3 of them winning, 2 of them creating a dynasty. They kept their struggling coaches, we just sack ours at the drop of a hat. Given our last coach was the best performed since Ratten (bit sad when you think about that) good people around him, a few tweaks in the way we played, especially the want of the players to defend better, and you never know. We won more games than with the last couple of coaches and were rarely ever beaten by over 5 goals. Only would have needed a better culture and commitment, much better support, a much smaller injury list and we could well gone from scoreboard competitive near every week to have played finals. We were right in the hunt with 3 games to go.

Goodwin's last 2 years previous were 17th and 9th, worse overall than Teague's last 2 seasons. After 2018, he won 8 of his next 30, and now 24 1/2 out of the next 32. Amazing what happens when you are supported properly.

Anyway, reading the SEN article today, looks like the penny has dropped. Voss will be heavily supported not hung out to dry like our last 2 coaches. Maybe there's a lesson learnt and maybe this means now we can move on and get back to the club to former glories.


Is it possible that their reviews found that the coach was capable of lifting whereas our review found that Teague was not?
You/anyone can find whatever data you want to support your argument.
For example, of those four coaches, the three who went on to win Premierships were all multiple Premiership-winning players themselves… (Buckley only made it as far as runners up, just as he did as a coach).


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:27 am 
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Horrie Clover
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Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:14 pm
Posts: 362
jim wrote:
Kouta wrote:
dannyboy wrote:
He speaks a lot better than I expected.

Surprising and a lot more eloquent than Teague.

Enjoyed his interview with Barrett.

Was sacked, but there's a Caroline Wilson article stating that Melbourne's former President who is still a board member tried to remove Goodwin as coach.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/sim ... 58uaa.html

Quote:
Looking back over Goodwin’s difficult two seasons that followed the 2018 preliminary final loss in Perth to the 2021 minor premiership and devastating September run to the grand final, is also reminiscent of Richmond at the end of 2016. Then as now both the coach and the board had come under significant pressure. In both cases the coach survived and thrived. In Richmond’s case the president stared down her opponents and, while overseeing a number of changes, strongly backed the coach.

Right or wrong, Bartlett had his doubts about Goodwin. Richmond’s Damien Hardwick went on to become a three-time premiership coach over the next four years. Melbourne’s new president Kate Roffey believes Goodwin has put in place a team capable of doing something similar.


Voss was arguably too green after landing a senior coaching role without doing a coaching apprenticeship for more than two years. Recall Collingwood signing Tony Shaw because they didn't want him to join Carlton as an assistant coach. That was also disastrous. Hope Voss has learnt from his past.


4 clubs did major reviews, part to decide the fate of the coach. All 4 kept their coach, put good people around them, really supported their coach, streamlined their tasks amongst other things and all went on to play in the Grand Final the next year, 3 of them winning, 2 of them creating a dynasty. They kept their struggling coaches, we just sack ours at the drop of a hat. Given our last coach was the best performed since Ratten (bit sad when you think about that) good people around him, a few tweaks in the way we played, especially the want of the players to defend better, and you never know. We won more games than with the last couple of coaches and were rarely ever beaten by over 5 goals. Only would have needed a better culture and commitment, much better support, a much smaller injury list and we could well gone from scoreboard competitive near every week to have played finals. We were right in the hunt with 3 games to go.

Goodwin's last 2 years previous were 17th and 9th, worse overall than Teague's last 2 seasons. After 2018, he won 8 of his next 30, and now 24 1/2 out of the next 32. Amazing what happens when you are supported properly.

Anyway, reading the SEN article today, looks like the penny has dropped. Voss will be heavily supported not hung out to dry like our last 2 coaches. Maybe there's a lesson learnt and maybe this means now we can move on and get back to the club to former glories.



Jim i agree with you.

Thing is Teague was a symptom of the internal power struggles we had going. He could have been the one but we had a bit of a decision to make here that meant that timing in the end was a bigger issue. Had we stuck with him next year would have looked like this year. As the turmoil and pressure built he actually coached worse. Thing is one more year with the spectre of Clarkson would have got him, and I think the club probably saw a now or never with Clarkson. We went now and unfortunately its never but the same thing applies. We needed to back trigger in longer than 1 year or move him on.

I dont agree with that decision but I understand it. They weren't convinced he could do it and to be frank neither was I but I thought he could. I get to posture on a forum people in decision making positions dont. They have made a strong choice here irrespective of whether or not you agree with it, and sometimes good people get moved on. I thought Adelaide ditched Sanderson too easily too, but it happens a lot and says very little about the coach moved on and more about the position the clubs need to go in.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:30 am 
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Ken Hunter
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I'm also guessing that, in part. its how that coaches handled the review...how did Teague handle it, the same? Or different?

You know what, none of us @#$%&! know. But keep banging on about Teague's glorious record. Someone might agree.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:54 am 
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Rod Ashman
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Speaking of David Teague, when is Walsh the Poster coming back to TC?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:20 am 
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Bruce Doull
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I wouldn't worry about that

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:43 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:58 pm
Posts: 4299
Donstuie wrote:
I wouldn't worry about that


Permanent ban?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:04 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22924
Location: Bondi Beach
thryleon wrote:
jim wrote:
Kouta wrote:
dannyboy wrote:
He speaks a lot better than I expected.

Surprising and a lot more eloquent than Teague.

Enjoyed his interview with Barrett.

Was sacked, but there's a Caroline Wilson article stating that Melbourne's former President who is still a board member tried to remove Goodwin as coach.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/sim ... 58uaa.html

Quote:
Looking back over Goodwin’s difficult two seasons that followed the 2018 preliminary final loss in Perth to the 2021 minor premiership and devastating September run to the grand final, is also reminiscent of Richmond at the end of 2016. Then as now both the coach and the board had come under significant pressure. In both cases the coach survived and thrived. In Richmond’s case the president stared down her opponents and, while overseeing a number of changes, strongly backed the coach.

Right or wrong, Bartlett had his doubts about Goodwin. Richmond’s Damien Hardwick went on to become a three-time premiership coach over the next four years. Melbourne’s new president Kate Roffey believes Goodwin has put in place a team capable of doing something similar.


Voss was arguably too green after landing a senior coaching role without doing a coaching apprenticeship for more than two years. Recall Collingwood signing Tony Shaw because they didn't want him to join Carlton as an assistant coach. That was also disastrous. Hope Voss has learnt from his past.


4 clubs did major reviews, part to decide the fate of the coach. All 4 kept their coach, put good people around them, really supported their coach, streamlined their tasks amongst other things and all went on to play in the Grand Final the next year, 3 of them winning, 2 of them creating a dynasty. They kept their struggling coaches, we just sack ours at the drop of a hat. Given our last coach was the best performed since Ratten (bit sad when you think about that) good people around him, a few tweaks in the way we played, especially the want of the players to defend better, and you never know. We won more games than with the last couple of coaches and were rarely ever beaten by over 5 goals. Only would have needed a better culture and commitment, much better support, a much smaller injury list and we could well gone from scoreboard competitive near every week to have played finals. We were right in the hunt with 3 games to go.

Goodwin's last 2 years previous were 17th and 9th, worse overall than Teague's last 2 seasons. After 2018, he won 8 of his next 30, and now 24 1/2 out of the next 32. Amazing what happens when you are supported properly.

Anyway, reading the SEN article today, looks like the penny has dropped. Voss will be heavily supported not hung out to dry like our last 2 coaches. Maybe there's a lesson learnt and maybe this means now we can move on and get back to the club to former glories.



Jim i agree with you.

Thing is Teague was a symptom of the internal power struggles we had going. He could have been the one but we had a bit of a decision to make here that meant that timing in the end was a bigger issue. Had we stuck with him next year would have looked like this year. As the turmoil and pressure built he actually coached worse. Thing is one more year with the spectre of Clarkson would have got him, and I think the club probably saw a now or never with Clarkson. We went now and unfortunately its never but the same thing applies. We needed to back trigger in longer than 1 year or move him on.

I dont agree with that decision but I understand it. They weren't convinced he could do it and to be frank neither was I but I thought he could. I get to posture on a forum people in decision making positions dont. They have made a strong choice here irrespective of whether or not you agree with it, and sometimes good people get moved on. I thought Adelaide ditched Sanderson too easily too, but it happens a lot and says very little about the coach moved on and more about the position the clubs need to go in.


Good post thy, ditto jim.

We will never know. Timing is everything.

jims points to a lack of support Teague received within the Football Dept, for his demise and it seems the penny may have dropped for the club on that front. There's evidence of that, but Teague chose to work with Assistants he had worked with whilst he too was an Assistant. Teague's decision.

Teague only reached out to Woosha after the media, led by King, Cornes, Ralph, Whateley, Robinson...nearly all of them had mercilessly ridiculed his game plan and questioned his ability as a coach to apply a team defence. Teague's decision.

We know Teague's Review was delayed by Teague himself, believing he could improve the defensive side of the game plan in the last 3 or 4 games of the season to prove he can. Teague's decision.

Clarkson at the time was still Head Coach with Mitchell as his side kick for next year.

But regardless if Clarkson was a target or not, if we kept on Teague next year, there was a risk there would be no improvement in our results and the heat on Teague with only months left on his contract would have been disastrous for the club. The media attack on Teague and club would be worse than 21.

Whether he would have improved his W/L in 22 no one knows, but the club wasn't going to risk another year like 21. The brand would be further tarnished, and that's an important part of the Marketing Mix. The club didn't have much choice imo.

Good thing is we are searching for high performance assistants for Vossy.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:08 am 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
Posts: 3448
I've got the plan to guarantee a GF appearance
Hold a review
back the coach
get some assistants
Works every time...simples

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:14 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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99prelim wrote:
I've got the plan to guarantee a GF appearance
Hold a review
back the coach
get some assistants
Works every time...simples

And tank …

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:28 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22924
Location: Bondi Beach
dannyboy wrote:
I'm also guessing that, in part. its how that coaches handled the review...how did Teague handle it, the same? Or different?

You know what, none of us @#$%&! know. But keep banging on about Teague's glorious record. Someone might agree.



On that note re performance in Review or Interview,

Vossy openly admits his presentation/interview for the Coaching job in 2019 was not good, and Teague got the nod.

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