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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 7:53 am 
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John Nicholls
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Didn't sleep very well last night. Really wired after the Lions vs Dogs match.

Was trying to imagine one of those two teams wearing the navy blue, and the adrenaline and pride we'd feel as supporters to see our guys go out and dig in a high pressure final like that.

I'm just not seeing it with our list.

Game plan will obviously be changed significantly, but scanning our list I'm coming up with less than a handful of players that have what it takes to win those games of footy.

The footy smarts.
The two way running.
The accountability.
The discipline.
The trust in each other to execute the plan.

I hope, in the absence of a senior coach (and almost entire coaching group), someone is taking the reigns and keeping our guys together and focused. Watching these finals should be required "homework" IMHO.

flower' love this footy club but just really flat right now at how far away we may yet be from the promised land. 40 years in the desert? :sad:

The AFL won't help us like they do the darling clubs. The media will kick us while we're down. It's on us and us alone to scrap our way out of this. Shambolic off field and shambolic on field. Pray for rain lads and laddettes. Pray for rain.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:15 am 
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Bruce Doull
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I'm hearing ya Rob. And to make matters worse, if the Dees break the drought this year we will be second in line after St Kilda as longest droughts.

Let that sink in :sad: :sad:

I suppose for me, the 2016 Dogs are the one team that gives me hope. They looked all at sea for a few years before that, didn't look close to winning a flag. Then somehow they were able to go from 0 to 100 real quick & play the kind of footy they did in the 2016 campaign. And going by last night, it's been a sustainable model they've built. Fkn great game of footy!

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:31 am 
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formerly Fevola

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We do have the players - talent wise.

But for some reason, they dont gel and dont have the desire and hunger to compete all the time.

A lot has to do with the lack of leadership and pushing standards on field and off.

Players feel entitled to a spot on the team regardless and are not willing to put in the hard word.

I hope with the right coach, and hopefully new leaders they will push the standards we need.

We have far more talent than the bulldogs and Brisbane. And outside of possibly Melbourne who are cherry ripe at the moment, I think we can beat any of them. I really believe that.

We need to make Weitering captain and Walsh Vice straight away. Let Doc and Cripps just play - I dont think they are leaders. Scrap this leadership group as well. Traditional Captain and Vice.

Selection integrity needs to be emphasised in the new coach selection too. We need players to be hungry for their spot.

Also we need buy in from the players and play them in their preferred positions.

Doing all of the above, is not easy but if we select the right coaches now it can all click…


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:33 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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CK95 wrote:

I suppose for me, the 2016 Dogs are the one team that gives me hope. They looked all at sea for a few years before that, didn't look close to winning a flag. Then somehow they were able to go from 0 to 100 real quick & play the kind of footy they did in the 2016 campaign.

Also Collingwood making the grand final in both 2002 & 2018, and I hate to say it but Essendon* in 1993.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:38 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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Drewgirl wrote:
W
We have far more talent than the bulldogs and Brisbane.

Not sure about that.
For example look at the Dogs midfield: Bont, Macrae, Smith, Libba, Treloar, Dunkley and Hunter are all top liners. We have Walsh and a banged up Cripps.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:43 am 
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Rod Ashman
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It won't take much at all. Just a coach that instills a bit of belief.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:43 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
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I disagree we have probably the most talented list of players of any club.
We need them fit and playing together
Weiters Jones Williams Saad Walsh Cripps Cunningham Curnow Harry McGovern
If they are fit and playing together no one can beat us

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:45 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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I'm actually optimistic on the list. Just get the feeling the time is now for some of the younger crew who haven't had the shit habits ingrained yet to 'own' the team and drive standards, even if they don't have an official title.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 9:34 am 
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Robert Walls

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I'm optimistic because the Board finally appear on board (pardon the pun) that enough is enough with mediocrity
This may well be the first time the Board are in synch with the frustrations of the rank and file

Sayers appears a very much "football ops" president, who, with the right CEO and footy manager, will make things happen onfield

The Review into our football dept, and the fact that Liddle may have contributed to its dysfunctionality, tells me he's not sweeping issues under the carpet

This is just my take

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 9:43 am 
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We have the list only when they are playing and we definitely do not have the midfield which is a pre requisite to play in finals.

There is no way Cripps, Walsh, Kennedy, Dow, LOB, SPS, Newnes bat as deep as Bont, Macrae, Libba, Dunkley, Treloar, Hunter, Smith, Daniel in terms of class.

Even GWS who got knocked out... Taranto, Hopper, Ward, Kelly, Whitfield, De Boer, Coniglio

If we dont have two players minimum laying eight tackles and eight clearances consistently we are not going to win many games because the opposition will do exactly that.

We just dont have the necessary midfield talent and its been the case for a decade.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 9:47 am 
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Sack everyone but when the club overrated the list over and over..and over again.

May as well hand in the keys as thats how clueless these fools are.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 10:01 am 
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Horrie Clover
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Jumping at shadows.

These guys have more guys in their prime than we do.

The crucial age bracket is age 24-28. We are only just getting some of our players into that group now.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 10:08 am 
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thryleon wrote:
Jumping at shadows.

These guys have more guys in their prime than we do.

The crucial age bracket is age 24-28. We are only just getting some of our players into that group now.


I dont see it that way. You can tell a player with quality and class after 50 games.

If you dont show it by 23 years old as good as gone.

Its no shame drafting Xavier Ellis, Dom Tyson, Will Brodie and Jordan Gallucci...it's part of the gambling process that is the draft and quite frankly Dow, LOB and SPS are not up to standard we need three bonafide mids if people want to start winning games.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 11:51 am 
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Bob Chitty

Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:31 pm
Posts: 865
99prelim wrote:
I'm optimistic because the Board finally appear on board (pardon the pun) that enough is enough with mediocrity
This may well be the first time the Board are in synch with the frustrations of the rank and file

Sayers appears a very much "football ops" president, who, with the right CEO and footy manager, will make things happen onfield

The Review into our football dept, and the fact that Liddle may have contributed to its dysfunctionality, tells me he's not sweeping issues under the carpet

This is just my take

:thumbsup:
This is my line of thinking too. If standards are set at the top, they will eventually flow all the way down to the players. That’s where we may be able to move from talented group of individuals to a high functioning team with collective buy in. Remember Melbourne were the former for a long time and seemingly have clicked to the latter over the off season so it can turn.
Need strong figures across as lines - board, ceo, head of footy, coach and senior players. We appear to be moving in the right direction but plenty of work to do.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:05 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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99prelim wrote:
I'm optimistic because the Board finally appear on board (pardon the pun) that enough is enough with mediocrity
This may well be the first time the Board are in synch with the frustrations of the rank and file

Sayers appears a very much "football ops" president, who, with the right CEO and footy manager, will make things happen onfield

The Review into our football dept, and the fact that Liddle may have contributed to its dysfunctionality, tells me he's not sweeping issues under the carpet

This is just my take

This seems to be the initial sense … let’s hope he gets things done right with the right people in place … there are still a couple of holes on the list but not many … coaching and player development are the keys …

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:47 pm 
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Bert Deacon

Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:51 pm
Posts: 546
when you watch the finals series makes me think how overrated our list is . This is why i am calling it now players like ,sps,setters, plowman must be moved on they would all fail in big final. just think how would they go in last night game lions v dogs.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:08 pm 
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Horrie Clover
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Walsh wrote:
thryleon wrote:
Jumping at shadows.

These guys have more guys in their prime than we do.

The crucial age bracket is age 24-28. We are only just getting some of our players into that group now.


I dont see it that way. You can tell a player with quality and class after 50 games.

If you dont show it by 23 years old as good as gone.

Its no shame drafting Xavier Ellis, Dom Tyson, Will Brodie and Jordan Gallucci...it's part of the gambling process that is the draft and quite frankly Dow, LOB and SPS are not up to standard we need three bonafide mids if people want to start winning games.



Its not just about talent its about consistency and years in the system with playing experience.

Everyone knows an athlete irrespective of ability is in their prime in there mid to late 20's. Some get there a bit earlier, others get there later but it's a universal truth.

Talent is a different discussion. Almost completely irrelevant. Proof. Plenty of hacks win flags. Not every talented player gets one.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:10 pm 
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Geoff Southby

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I would not be making any wholesale changes under a new coach. It all depends how the individual player reacts under him. All players mentiioned have talent to varying degrees particularly, SPS, Dow, maybe O'Brien.

Give it a year and then make a decision with the blessing of the coach.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:37 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Drewgirl wrote:
We do have the players - talent wise.

But for some reason, they dont gel and dont have the desire and hunger to compete all the time.

A lot has to do with the lack of leadership and pushing standards on field and off.

Players feel entitled to a spot on the team regardless and are not willing to put in the hard word.

I hope with the right coach, and hopefully new leaders they will push the standards we need.

We have far more talent than the bulldogs and Brisbane. And outside of possibly Melbourne who are cherry ripe at the moment, I think we can beat any of them. I really believe that.

We need to make Weitering captain and Walsh Vice straight away. Let Doc and Cripps just play - I dont think they are leaders. Scrap this leadership group as well. Traditional Captain and Vice.

Selection integrity needs to be emphasised in the new coach selection too. We need players to be hungry for their spot.

Also we need buy in from the players and play them in their preferred positions.

Doing all of the above, is not easy but if we select the right coaches now it can all click…


:thumbsup:


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:37 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Teddy Hopkins wrote:
I would not be making any wholesale changes under a new coach. It all depends how the individual player reacts under him. All players mentiioned have talent to varying degrees particularly, SPS, Dow, maybe O'Brien.

Give it a year and then make a decision with the blessing of the coach.


:thumbsup:


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