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 Post subject: The smokescreen
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 4:04 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:38 pm
Posts: 7640
I’m glad both that the club is celebrating Murph getting to 300 and the club is strongly supporting Eddie on the racism issue a tick to both

It’s a shame that the enthusiasm for these right and good issues don’t translate into the very thing that the business of the football club is about running a successful modern forward thinking club that wins both on and off the field and engages all stakeholders in a consistent sensible snd transparent fashion.

I hope that the club and the board are fully aware that whilst these are meritorious issues to lead on they in no way provide a diversion from what the supporters want out of the review of the football dept and do not at all ameliorate the shocking performance against GC last weekend and the gross underperformance of the whole club including the performance on the field in 2021

These 2 feel good stories don’t douse the fire of supporters who are sick to the back teeth with Carlton acting and performing rank amateurs and been seen as a laughing stock in the AFL for 20 years .


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 Post subject: Re: The smokescreen
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:43 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Onya Frankie .

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 Post subject: Re: The smokescreen
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 6:30 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 9:26 pm
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Sadly, I think we have been experts in obfuscation for many years Frank.

Agree with you. Great causes and events, but one can't help but think that the elephant in the room is being ignored.

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 Post subject: Re: The smokescreen
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 6:53 pm 
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Serge Silvagni
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frank dardew wrote:
I’m glad both that the club is celebrating Murph getting to 300 and the club is strongly supporting Eddie on the racism issue a tick to both

It’s a shame that the enthusiasm for these right and good issues don’t translate into the very thing that the business of the football club is about running a successful modern forward thinking club that wins both on and off the field and engages all stakeholders in a consistent sensible snd transparent fashion.

I hope that the club and the board are fully aware that whilst these are meritorious issues to lead on they in no way provide a diversion from what the supporters want out of the review of the football dept and do not at all ameliorate the shocking performance against GC last weekend and the gross underperformance of the whole club including the performance on the field in 2021

These 2 feel good stories don’t douse the fire of supporters who are sick to the back teeth with Carlton acting and performing rank amateurs and been seen as a laughing stock in the AFL for 20 years .


Brilliantly articulated, Frank.

I agree wholeheartedly.


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 Post subject: Re: The smokescreen
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 7:45 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Posts: 1581
Succinctly put frank , I do hope the review is a diligent and pertinent insight.
Our once proud club just keeps rambling on it seems often disconnected often form supporters and their dream.

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 Post subject: Re: The smokescreen
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 7:54 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Geez we’ve got a lot of copies of the old songbook that Synbad and others were singing from a few years ago to go around.


:wink:

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 Post subject: The smokescreen
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 7:55 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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So many years and the first use of ameliorate on this site.

Brilliant post all round, but that put it into... POW territory!

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Last edited by bluehammer on Wed Aug 11, 2021 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: The smokescreen
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 7:56 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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If we still did it.

:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: The smokescreen
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 7:59 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
Posts: 3448
frank dardew wrote:
I’m glad both that the club is celebrating Murph getting to 300 and the club is strongly supporting Eddie on the racism issue a tick to both

It’s a shame that the enthusiasm for these right and good issues don’t translate into the very thing that the business of the football club is about running a successful modern forward thinking club that wins both on and off the field and engages all stakeholders in a consistent sensible snd transparent fashion.

I hope that the club and the board are fully aware that whilst these are meritorious issues to lead on they in no way provide a diversion from what the supporters want out of the review of the football dept and do not at all ameliorate the shocking performance against GC last weekend and the gross underperformance of the whole club including the performance on the field in 2021

These 2 feel good stories don’t douse the fire of supporters who are sick to the back teeth with Carlton acting and performing rank amateurs and been seen as a laughing stock in the AFL for 20 years .


Agree as well Frank
I guess for me, the shining light is that the Review is focussing on the footy dept, the very area where we cannot hide as an organisation

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 Post subject: Re: The smokescreen
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 8:24 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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AGRO wrote:
Geez we’ve got a lot of copies of the old songbook that Synbad and others were singing from a few years ago to go around.


:wink:


Yeah , and to think Synner's used to get shit canned in those days . Get " The Big Sinner " back Aggs . As hard as Walsh tries , he aint fit to polish the boots of the great man . But who could , a once of .

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 Post subject: Re: The smokescreen
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 8:24 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:08 pm
Posts: 2981
Smokescreen perhaps.

And perhaps not.

just as possible the club will announce the review findings transparently once the board has ratified them. Hopefully over the next fortnight. That’s when i have the opportunity to measure their appetite and committment to change.........a mature organisation, one that honours leadership would put their hand up and accept the individual and collective ownership of the current situation.

In the meantime, the stories at hand - Murphy and Eddie are worth giving air too.


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 Post subject: Re: The smokescreen
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 8:49 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22924
Location: Bondi Beach
Great stuff Frankie.



... and the post just above me from london blue...yep, all eyes are on the Board.

Lets see if Board embraces the supporters with the information that may give them comfort, knowing the truth of the state of the Footy dept and what they are going to do to fix it, just as they have with the 2 big stories Murph and Ed. Both of the stories moved me, last night and today, and its a shame the negative noise has got more of my attention.

Its great that the footy public have been moved by Ed and Murph's stories.

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 Post subject: Re: The smokescreen
PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:40 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:23 am
Posts: 1566
The board have no connection with the supporter base at all , and it’s all about them !!

There is complete disconnect and has been forever , I can’t seeing it change anytime soon.

What Sayers does with this review and the changes he makes will determine his legacy immediately, there will be no honeymoon period because the whole supporter base is sick of their crap messaging !!

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 Post subject: Re: The smokescreen
PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:53 am 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 5959
Watch the news last night I honestly got pissed off watching the players with those 300 t shirts
The coach is about to be sacked
Murphy has been gifted the last 17 games or whatever because the club puts individuals first plus the medical sub rule
The last 16 quarters against average opposition we have played 3 and a bit quarters of decent footy the rest of it has been deplorable and their efforts have been shit
That is partly coaching
Partly the playing group
The players obviously don’t really give a shit about the club clearly
So long as I get a game and my fat pay cheque
Is it the same at other clubs
At successful clubs no
Carlton arn’t as one. Just a bunch of selfish individuals who continue to deny what is really wrong
And the board is disconnected from the supporters corrupt make up the rules to keep their power and escape all blame for the obvious abyss

We so desperately need a change at the top
Very sad


Whilst Teague has his deficiencies I feel for him like I did for Bolton


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 Post subject: Re: The smokescreen
PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 10:42 am 
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Banned

Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:55 pm
Posts: 2333
I'll be happy to play one AFL game let alone 300 I am going to buy one of those 300 t shirts


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 Post subject: Re: The smokescreen
PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 11:21 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 4435
This is a club that refuses to go through the required process.
You watch, they'll probably appoint Clarkson without doing due diligence.


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 Post subject: Re: The smokescreen
PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 12:08 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 5959
Walsh wrote:
I'll be happy to play one AFL game let alone 300 I am going to buy one of those 300 t shirts


I would be happy too bu that’s not the point I’m making
Successful teams are based on selfless attitude
Team first
Fine to celebrate a milestone but it was handed to him
So what if he finished on 283 or whatever
He was clearly cooked at the end of 2020
It’s about the club not the individual


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 Post subject: Re: The smokescreen
PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 1:28 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22924
Location: Bondi Beach
Walsh wrote:
I'll be happy to play one AFL game let alone 300 I am going to buy one of those 300 t shirts



Good on you Walshy

First and foremost its about loyalty through thick or thin.

That's what I try to teach my kids from the last 20 years with Carlton.

Then for us rusted on, we want our kids to see the success we experienced, because it has been doom and gloom for the majority of their lives.

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 Post subject: Re: The smokescreen
PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 2:18 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22924
Location: Bondi Beach
keogh wrote:
Watch the news last night I honestly got pissed off watching the players with those 300 t shirts
The coach is about to be sacked
Murphy has been gifted the last 17 games or whatever because the club puts individuals first plus the medical sub rule
The last 16 quarters against average opposition we have played 3 and a bit quarters of decent footy the rest of it has been deplorable and their efforts have been shit
That is partly coaching
Partly the playing group
The players obviously don’t really give a shit about the club clearly
So long as I get a game and my fat pay cheque
Is it the same at other clubs
At successful clubs no
Carlton arn’t as one. Just a bunch of selfish individuals who continue to deny what is really wrong
And the board is disconnected from the supporters corrupt make up the rules to keep their power and escape all blame for the obvious abyss

We so desperately need a change at the top
Very sad


Whilst Teague has his deficiencies I feel for him like I did for Bolton


I hear you keogh.
There is a level of selfishness still at the club, but its hard to pinpoint what it is.

Is it post Elliot fallout. The end of his era was really toxic.
The remnants of that era Camporeale, Bradley, Silvagni are all gone.
I didn't think of McKay and Ratten like that. Maybe I'm wrong, but they are gone too.

Who on our list was touched by the end of that era?

There's only Murphy.
Curnow and Levi came later, and Jones came from somewhere else.

But to celebrate a player's milestone, and a huge one at that is not offensive.
The flipside is offensive.

The problem we all have was gifting him an extra year when Simmo still had plenty more left than Murph and he was forced to retire.
The fact that Teague gifted games because he believed in them has had an effect imo.

No one can put a finger on the problem: the curse.
The Board is doing fine.
I hope there's a demarcation line between the Board and Footy Dept: that's all.
If not, there's the problem. Not the Board itself, but their meddling in the rooms. IMO

Hopefully Sayers can see what needs to be and the Review reflects the hearts and minds of those in the Footy dept.
The collage of thoughts and ideas is what is going to be difficult to sypher through to put the finger on one thing or three.
Lets hope the Board choose to fix has a domino effect on the other issues, because I'm sure many issues are related.

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 Post subject: Re: The smokescreen
PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 3:17 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 4435
I think a lot of this, certainly the playing group stuff, comes back to belief.
Do the players believe in the team and list in any given year, is actually any good?
This group might think this a bit at the start of the year, and then a couple months in .... it all gets too hard and belief goes out the window.
It's probably why Teague keeps preaching he believes in the list. He is saying this for the players.
Once the belief is gone, so does any real commitment and belief they can make finals etc.
They get a kick up the arse when they put in a shocker, but that effort doesn't last long.
I remember Judd saying when he came to the club something about how not many of the players took things seriously and were committed. Well the list was rubbish so it's probably no surprise.

I can imagine Cripps has a similar problem now, in that he knows not all the players are truly on board and truly BELIEVE.
Cripps seems a genuinely energised fella, I believe he cares, but I think for whatever reason (be it injuries, the coach?) his resolve has maybe been tested this year.

IN my view the list is pretty good. We lack a good young small forward, and probably need another good tall defender, and a probably some ruck depth, but outside of that the midfield still isn't good enough and that is the core problem. Over the last month or so Kennedy has been good in a serviceable way but will he ever be great? I am not sure he will.
Dow has also been good through this period but was woeful last week and I dare say this weekend's game is massive for him - if he doesn't respond I think eyebrows will be raised about his mental fortitude.
Granted he has been injured for a period once again but Setterfield hasn't come on as many of us expected he would. To my eye he seems to lack intent and aggression, which is a trait I am sad to say seems to be consistent in a lot of SOS' recruitment choices.
LOB is not a tough footballer. Plowman is not a tough footballer. SPS is not a tough footballer. Fisher is not a tough footballer. (was he a SOS pick?). Williamson is not a tough footballer. Gibbons is not a tough footballer.
The list goes on and I don't think recent big money recruits are that tough either - Saad, McGovern, Martin.
I am not saying they all need to be hard nosed but you get my drift.

At the end of the day we need at least 3 topline mids and right now we have Walsh and an under-performing and probably injured Cripps.
The club have backed the captain so I can only assume he is still carrying an injury and when he gets over this injury we will see a far better Cripps.
It's why I think Cerra is an essential piece in the puzzle. He is young but he has class written all over him. He would make a nice one two tandem with Walsh.
And then you still need a good B-Team. Will the likes of Dow, Setterfield, Kennedy, Carroll, even Kemp be that team in the near future? There's not many guarantees there.

But I digress.

The challenge, aside from getting a coach who has some semblance of interest in defence is for the players to believe and then buy-in.
And I think an improved midfield will be central to this.
Cripps needs help.
We get him Walsh.
But he/we need more in there.
Kennedy and Dow were more than decent for a few weeks then last weekend happened.


A stronger TDK.
A fit Cripps.
And Cerra.
And suddenly the midfield looks a bit better.

Call me crazy but would we look at Mitchell from Hawthorn?
I know his ball use is iffy but he can damn well find it.
If we have to cough up 6 + SPS for Cerra and a 2nd back, then what will it take to get Mitchell?

TDK
Cripps
Walsh
Mitchell
Cerra

That's a starting midfield.


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