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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:29 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17517
Juanita Jones wrote:
The_Cranium wrote:
Quote:

I hope I don't offend too many people but Cripps has been an embarrassment for 18 months


It's staggering how far he has fallen. Cripps at his best was top 5 if not higher in the league. He wouldn't be top 50 now. He'd be lucky to be top 100 if we're honest.

It feels like a number of us just want to stick the boots into him, but I think it's just the disappointment of the promise he showed not being delivered. We just want him to be something that he isn't at the moment and may never be.

These were the years he was supposed to dominate the competition and drag us into finals. Instead his fall from grace is a sad reflection of team as a whole


A lot of that is him not playing to his strengths and believing the BS that his coach places on him. He never takes the best option first in many clearances. Bash and crash is his motto. Does nothing for the team.


I saw an interview with Ollie Wines on the weekend. He was asked what was the reason his form has been so good this year.
He said he has simplified his role. He understands that his strength is to win the contested ball, to be the big body in the stoppage and to get clearances. Previously he was trying to be good at everything.
That's where Cripps is at IMHO.
Forget receiving handballs or chasing the outside footy. Or taking the ruck in the forward line when there is a ruckman standing next to you. That's selfish footy. That's getting ahead of yourself.
He needs his role simplified and to stick to his area of strength.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:53 am 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 5959
99prelim wrote:
keogh wrote:
The personal isn’t there
It’s recruiting
I keep saying it
We need to start again



BULLSHIT Keogh

If we had 18 Jack Silvagni's (with his ability) out there wanting to win for the jumper at all costs, the narrative would be a polar opposite to what we have

It's so f%^^&) easy to say that we have f^&*()ed up our drafting/recruiting for most years

We have f^((_^%%$ed up our COACHING and our DEVELOPMENT significantly more than our recruiting


Disagree obviously
Recruiting is the key
The way footy is these days it starts in the midfield.
You have to have 8 or 9 blokes capable of playing there
We recruited Martin and Williams with free agency
They don’t have the skill set to play there
To read the play
To have the guts to think ball first rather than contact
Combine their contracts it’s 11 years and around 8.5 million dollars
Other than a handful of games over a combined 16 years they have shown nothing to suggest they can play midfield
They were recruited to play there and can’t

Their fitness is not good enough which shouldn’t be the case in their mid 20 s
That is shit recruiting

Do you look at other teams
I’ll give an example of a guy who plays midfield
Dan Houston
Pick 45 in the rookie draft
He is contributing in the midfield
Martin isn’t yet both have achieved the same amount of awards
A rising star nominee
3rd in a B and F
Who is the better player?

Do you want me to keep going
Nah do your own research
We are shit in terms of our footy because our recruiting has been diabolical

Tell me is sacking Teague going to change things
Brittian
Pagan
Ratten
Malthouse
Bolton
Teague???
Makes no difference
Not to mention all the changes internally in other important positions of admin

I have been advocating more importantly for a change at board level

The only way things can change is if someone comes in recognizing the past present and future and basically fixing the culture of the club
That was Brendan Gale in 2011 at Richmond
9 years later hey presto 3 flags
They are on the downward spiral now which happens in sport governed by equalization

That’s what we need not another wanky review

If that happens there won’t be any more wanky Williams Martin recruiting


Last edited by keogh on Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:53 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Can someone please confirm for me...

Did Weitering line up on Larkey or was it Jones?

I can't face watching any of it again.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:00 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Posts: 24282
Location: Kaloyasena
I vote we rename the “Brad Moran Award” to the “Nick Larkey Award” - or better still to save time hire the court side engraver from Wimbledon to sit on the bench for all our games to engrave the name of every no-name C€£# who kicks a flowering bag on us every flowering week.


:roll:

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:13 am 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 5959
SurreyBlue wrote:
99prelim wrote:
keogh wrote:
The personal isn’t there
It’s recruiting
I keep saying it
We need to start again



BULLSHIT Keogh

If we had 18 Jack Silvagni's (with his ability) out there wanting to win for the jumper at all costs, the narrative would be a polar opposite to what we have

It's so f%^^&) easy to say that we have f^&*()ed up our drafting/recruiting for most years

We have f^((_^%%$ed up our COACHING and our DEVELOPMENT significantly more than our recruiting


:clap:

So sacking Teague will solve everything?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:53 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22924
Location: Bondi Beach
The_Cranium wrote:
Quote:

I hope I don't offend too many people but Cripps has been an embarrassment for 18 months


It's staggering how far he has fallen. Cripps at his best was top 5 if not higher in the league. He wouldn't be top 50 now. He'd be lucky to be top 100 if we're honest.

It feels like a number of us just want to stick the boots into him, but I think it's just the disappointment of the promise he showed not being delivered. We just want him to be something that he isn't at the moment and may never be.

These were the years he was supposed to dominate the competition and drag us into finals. Instead his fall from grace is a sad reflection of team as a whole


Bang on.

I love the accolades the opposition continue to give him. But I don't think they really watch much of carlton to know he has lost the dominance he once imposed on the opposition.

I want the olf Cripps back.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:56 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22924
Location: Bondi Beach
Blue Vain wrote:
Juanita Jones wrote:
The_Cranium wrote:
Quote:

I hope I don't offend too many people but Cripps has been an embarrassment for 18 months


It's staggering how far he has fallen. Cripps at his best was top 5 if not higher in the league. He wouldn't be top 50 now. He'd be lucky to be top 100 if we're honest.

It feels like a number of us just want to stick the boots into him, but I think it's just the disappointment of the promise he showed not being delivered. We just want him to be something that he isn't at the moment and may never be.

These were the years he was supposed to dominate the competition and drag us into finals. Instead his fall from grace is a sad reflection of team as a whole


A lot of that is him not playing to his strengths and believing the BS that his coach places on him. He never takes the best option first in many clearances. Bash and crash is his motto. Does nothing for the team.


I saw an interview with Ollie Wines on the weekend. He was asked what was the reason his form has been so good this year.
He said he has simplified his role. He understands that his strength is to win the contested ball, to be the big body in the stoppage and to get clearances. Previously he was trying to be good at everything.
That's where Cripps is at IMHO.
Forget receiving handballs or chasing the outside footy. Or taking the ruck in the forward line when there is a ruckman standing next to you. That's selfish footy. That's getting ahead of yourself.
He needs his role simplified and to stick to his area of strength.


Pardon the pun, but its as simple as that. Spot on.

I believe the penny will drop. Maybe the next coach will find a way to get him back to his best.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:01 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22924
Location: Bondi Beach
keogh wrote:
99prelim wrote:
keogh wrote:
The personal isn’t there
It’s recruiting
I keep saying it
We need to start again



BULLSHIT Keogh

If we had 18 Jack Silvagni's (with his ability) out there wanting to win for the jumper at all costs, the narrative would be a polar opposite to what we have

It's so f%^^&) easy to say that we have f^&*()ed up our drafting/recruiting for most years

We have f^((_^%%$ed up our COACHING and our DEVELOPMENT significantly more than our recruiting


Disagree obviously
Recruiting is the key
The way footy is these days it starts in the midfield.
You have to have 8 or 9 blokes capable of playing there
We recruited Martin and Williams with free agency
They don’t have the skill set to play there
To read the play
To have the guts to think ball first rather than contact
Combine their contracts it’s 11 years and around 8.5 million dollars
Other than a handful of games over a combined 16 years they have shown nothing to suggest they can play midfield
They were recruited to play there and can’t

Their fitness is not good enough which shouldn’t be the case in their mid 20 s
That is shit recruiting

Do you look at other teams
I’ll give an example of a guy who plays midfield
Dan Houston
Pick 45 in the rookie draft
He is contributing in the midfield
Martin isn’t yet both have achieved the same amount of awards
A rising star nominee
3rd in a B and F
Who is the better player?

Do you want me to keep going
Nah do your own research
We are shit in terms of our footy because our recruiting has been diabolical

Tell me is sacking Teague going to change things
Brittian
Pagan
Ratten
Malthouse
Bolton
Teague???
Makes no difference
Not to mention all the changes internally in other important positions of admin

I have been advocating more importantly for a change at board level

The only way things can change is if someone comes in recognizing the past present and future and basically fixing the culture of the club
That was Brendan Gale in 2011 at Richmond
9 years later hey presto 3 flags
They are on the downward spiral now which happens in sport governed by equalization

That’s what we need not another wanky review

If that happens there won’t be any more wanky Williams Martin recruiting


Good post keogh

Not sure if you're 100% correct but good argument.

Maybe we do need a Review to come to conclusions to create reform for the better.
Will the Review be transparent? This Review is purely focussed on Football Dept, and with Soft cap constraints, this is what we need to get right to develop players let alone get them on the park strong enough and fit enough to compete day in day out.

I don't think the game plan is doing Martin any favours, and imo, he's a part time mid as part of rotations.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:03 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22924
Location: Bondi Beach
keogh wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
99prelim wrote:
keogh wrote:
The personal isn’t there
It’s recruiting
I keep saying it
We need to start again



BULLSHIT Keogh

If we had 18 Jack Silvagni's (with his ability) out there wanting to win for the jumper at all costs, the narrative would be a polar opposite to what we have

It's so f%^^&) easy to say that we have f^&*()ed up our drafting/recruiting for most years

We have f^((_^%%$ed up our COACHING and our DEVELOPMENT significantly more than our recruiting


:clap:

So sacking Teague will solve everything?


Crystal Ball required.

Might fix up Game Plan and Mtach Day selection

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:09 am 
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Craig Bradley
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 1:26 am
Posts: 7974
Location: Melbourne
99prelim wrote:
keogh wrote:
The personal isn’t there
It’s recruiting
I keep saying it
We need to start again



BULLSHIT Keogh

If we had 18 Jack Silvagni's (with his ability) out there wanting to win for the jumper at all costs, the narrative would be a polar opposite to what we have

It's so f%^^&) easy to say that we have f^&*()ed up our drafting/recruiting for most years

We have f^((_^%%$ed up our COACHING and our DEVELOPMENT significantly more than our recruiting


Well said. Coaches are required to coach what cattle you have. Not sit around and bitch and moan about who you don't have. Look at Richmond. They haven't recruited lots of guns over time. They started out trying to play like Hawthorn and got nowhere. So they swtiched and adopted a game style that suited the cattle they had. They played to a system with ruthless disicipline and have earned the rewards.

Yes we need a better midfield but with the draft, thats not going to change overnight. What we need is some sort of evidence that the coaching group are able to develelop a game plan with the current group.

And after 18 mths with Teague, sadly, I see nothing.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:52 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 2:10 pm
Posts: 2455
AIRCAV wrote:
99prelim wrote:
keogh wrote:
The personal isn’t there
It’s recruiting
I keep saying it
We need to start again



BULLSHIT Keogh

If we had 18 Jack Silvagni's (with his ability) out there wanting to win for the jumper at all costs, the narrative would be a polar opposite to what we have

It's so f%^^&) easy to say that we have f^&*()ed up our drafting/recruiting for most years

We have f^((_^%%$ed up our COACHING and our DEVELOPMENT significantly more than our recruiting


Well said. Coaches are required to coach what cattle you have. Not sit around and bitch and moan about who you don't have. Look at Richmond. They haven't recruited lots of guns over time. They started out trying to play like Hawthorn and got nowhere. So they swtiched and adopted a game style that suited the cattle they had. They played to a system with ruthless disicipline and have earned the rewards.

Yes we need a better midfield but with the draft, thats not going to change overnight. What we need is some sort of evidence that the coaching group are able to develelop a game plan with the current group.

And after 18 mths with Teague, sadly, I see nothing.


Probably the best summation of our predicament I’ve seen.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:29 pm 
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Bert Deacon

Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 4:44 am
Posts: 539
bluehammer wrote:
Can someone please confirm for me...

Did Weitering line up on Larkey or was it Jones?

I can't face watching any of it again.


Weitering played mostly on Larkey, altho, as per normal in defense, Jones did have the odd turn on him. That's from my memory but everyone who has spoken about the game has Weitering on Larkey. Bondi is one who has been trying to put Jonesy in the frame but he seems to have a bit of a stalkie for Jones. I notice he hasn't replied to your question.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:10 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:35 am
Posts: 19436
Location: 父 父 父 父 父 父
billy_bongo wrote:
bluehammer wrote:
Can someone please confirm for me...

Did Weitering line up on Larkey or was it Jones?

I can't face watching any of it again.


Weitering played mostly on Larkey, altho, as per normal in defense, Jones did have the odd turn on him. That's from my memory but everyone who has spoken about the game has Weitering on Larkey. Bondi is one who has been trying to put Jonesy in the frame but he seems to have a bit of a stalkie for Jones. I notice he hasn't replied to your question.
Thanks - it was a genuine question.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:03 am 
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formerly King Kenny
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Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:35 pm
Posts: 20076
bluehammer wrote:
Can someone please confirm for me...

Did Weitering line up on Larkey or was it Jones?

I can't face watching any of it again.


On paper someone was assigned to him, in reality nobody took responsibility.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:06 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22924
Location: Bondi Beach
The Normal One wrote:
bluehammer wrote:
Can someone please confirm for me...

Did Weitering line up on Larkey or was it Jones?

I can't face watching any of it again.


On paper someone was assigned to him, in reality nobody took responsibility.



:lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:57 am 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 8166
Location: Australia
bondiblue wrote:
The Normal One wrote:
bluehammer wrote:
Can someone please confirm for me...

Did Weitering line up on Larkey or was it Jones?

I can't face watching any of it again.


On paper someone was assigned to him, in reality nobody took responsibility.



:lol: :lol: :lol:


It’s funny but it’s true, defence is the job of the entire team, not just Weitering or Plowman or Jones. And nobody took responsibility for the team defence, from the captain down.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:02 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22924
Location: Bondi Beach
billy_bongo wrote:
bluehammer wrote:
Can someone please confirm for me...

Did Weitering line up on Larkey or was it Jones?

I can't face watching any of it again.


Weitering played mostly on Larkey, altho, as per normal in defense, Jones did have the odd turn on him. That's from my memory but everyone who has spoken about the game has Weitering on Larkey. Bondi is one who has been trying to put Jonesy in the frame but he seems to have a bit of a stalkie for Jones. I notice he hasn't replied to your question.



bb you notice a lot about me it seems. Do you have a bit of a stalkie for me?

I'm merely making conversation and pulling up the media headlines re Weitering. You didn't mention that.

I saw what I saw. Jones, as you mention did have the odd turn on Larkey, whatever that means from your POV. That's similar to what I saw, but I thought Jones was on Larkey for at least 3 of his goals.

A stalkie? Stalking? closely looking you mean? If that's what you're implying then that's right. I'm rusted onto the whole Carlton team and our predicament.

The headlines state Weitering had 7 goals kicked against him. I gave the links in another post. That's just not right. You seem to agree. That's all.

You notice what you want to notice bb. I did comment, must have been on another thread, maybe the Weitering thread, asking Stefchook what he knew, with the same question bluehammer is asking. I'm seeking to understand more about the match ups. No agenda from me as you seem to allude to. Maybe I'm reading you wrong.

I love what Jones can do well.
Like you and everyone else, I don't like the strange decisions/ avoidable clangers Jones makes, and would like to see him close down his opponent one on one as his primary job, then run off him. Its not uncommon for Jones to take off leaving his man alone, and then watching his man kick a goal. Agree? That's not stalking, that's an observation. Can't miss it.

I saw Jones leave Larkey to go for another opponent in the pocket, then the ball was directed to Larkey and he took an easy mark. Weitering went in too late and it looked like it was Weitering's opponent at the time. I wish it never happened.

All I'm saying is Weitering did not have 7 goals kicked against him, and Jones accounts for some. Nothing wrong with that. Agree?

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:57 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Posts: 1383
To me it looked like Plowman went onto him late in the second quarter after he beat Weitering, with Jones playing a third-man up role.

Then Weitering went forward in the last, and Plowman took him one on one and got slaughtered.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:44 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
Posts: 3448
keogh wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
99prelim wrote:
keogh wrote:
The personal isn’t there
It’s recruiting
I keep saying it
We need to start again



BULLSHIT Keogh

If we had 18 Jack Silvagni's (with his ability) out there wanting to win for the jumper at all costs, the narrative would be a polar opposite to what we have

It's so f%^^&) easy to say that we have f^&*()ed up our drafting/recruiting for most years

We have f^((_^%%$ed up our COACHING and our DEVELOPMENT significantly more than our recruiting


:clap:

So sacking Teague will solve everything?


Sacking Teague is our best option for 2022 because the entire team bar a few players have gone BACKWARDS...you have become so fixated with recruitment that you think a really good 18 yo AUTOMATICALLY becomes a really good 21 yo, 24 yo etc etc. because the recruiters "recruited well" in the first place...please!!!!

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:31 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17517
https://www.afl.com.au/video/654686/how ... 7416000001

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