Talking Carlton Index Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington CFC Home CFC Membership CFC Shop CFC Fixture Blueseum
It is currently Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:14 pm

All times are UTC + 10 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:56 am 
Offline
Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 1712
The entire football dept at Carlton needs to be overhauled.
We are on the brink of another rebuild or at least serious renovation given the current problems.
Which extend beyond just the senior coach.

Obviously the coach needs to be looked at.
Here is a coach who thinks defence is an after-thought.
A coach who didn't do much to discourage the club's best young talent from not pursuing whatever extra-curricular sporting pursuits that might cause an injury to his body.
A coach who based off his own words seems to have failed at teaching his players the basics of the game.
A coach who's win and loss record is falling at a rate of knots (2019 : 55%, 2020 41%, 2021 33%).
A coach who bafflingly thinks confidence isn't something that happens at the flick of a switch, but who also believes in the light bulb theory of form.

But it's not just him.
The powers that be need to be held accountable for appointing the coach without undertaking true due diligence. Seriously, he was appointed so quickly, amidst the stench of player and supporter support, does anyone really think the club went through a lengthy interview process with multiple candidates?

Team selection and broader list management has also been diabolical.
We sold the farm to get the likes of Saad (who refuses to defend) and Williams (who isn't fit enough to play midfield - despite the fact that's why we brought him to the club) in the belief we were finals bound, and we currently languish in 14th spot.
We have a captain who will likely sign on pretty big dollars but for whom all of the current (and recent - see 2020) evidence suggests is almost definitely past his best.
We have an ex captain who is nearing his 300th game, but who let's face it probably shouldn't be in the 22 anymore. The fumble on the wing yesterday was telling and sad in equal measures. Say what you want about Murphy but in previous years he would never have made such a mistake. And now the club have little choice but to gift Murph the 5 or so games he needs despite knowing deep down they wish they didn't have to do this. Talk about being compromised.

Then there is player development (hello assistant coaches).
McKay, as good as he has been, clearly struggles with the drop punt. The stats that Fox Footy revealed in yesterday's broadcast suggest Harry is far, far more likely to kick goals if he kicks around the side of his body. So why he continues to try the drop punt sometimes, usually with negative results, is not just an indictment on him but also the assistant coaches (and by extension the head coach).
And what has happened to our plethora of young midfielders who in the main were taken in the first round of the draft? Dow looked reasonable yesterday, despite struggling to hit a target by foot. SPS it would appear has possibly played his last game for the club, after being left to ply his trade as a small defender when it was clear tot everyone outside the club he simply is not a defender. O'Brien it would appear is finished. Pre-injury Cuningham still hadn't solidified his spot in the team. Setterfield is in the team but his place in the 22 still feels very precarious. Have I missed anyone (don't say WALSH - he was pick 1 for Goodness sakes!).
I could go on (why do Gibbons in 2020 and 2021, and this year Fogarty start the year so well then fade miserably after about 5 games?).

As my good mate and fellow tortured Carlton buddy said last night "what a shambles".

The club need some sort of enquiry. But I suspect they won't do this. The sad thing is I now suspect anyone with any semblance of power doesn't care enough anymore.


Last edited by Paddycripps on Tue Jun 08, 2021 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:06 am 
Offline
Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 1712
And so Sayers is leading an inquiry.
Good.
Hope it's fair dinkum.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:18 am 
Offline
Harry Vallence
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:05 pm
Posts: 1234
Just because we are not winning as we would like doesn't mean we need to throw the baby out with the bathwater.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:35 am 
Offline
John Nicholls
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:12 am
Posts: 9825
Location: Coburg
maybe put the baby up for adoption and start again?

_________________
Title: Catalina
Author: Danny Fahey
Publisher: Dragonfall Press (http://www.dragonfallpress.com)
http://dannybfahey.blogspot.com.au/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 2:20 pm 
Offline
formerly Fevola

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:57 pm
Posts: 3705
Get rid of Jack Russell too. The best in the business no longer.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 2:35 pm 
Offline
Geoff Southby

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:14 pm
Posts: 5621
Location: Melbourne
We’ve already got one casualty, the review will find a lot of things.

Going scorched earth isn’t the answer here. Bit of hyperbole in the OP, but I know that happens when thing aren’t going well.

I really don’t think we can blame Charlie hurting himself on Teague, that’s going a bit far.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 3:26 pm 
Offline
Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 1712
Adam Chatfield wrote:
We’ve already got one casualty, the review will find a lot of things.

Going scorched earth isn’t the answer here. Bit of hyperbole in the OP, but I know that happens when thing aren’t going well.

I really don’t think we can blame Charlie hurting himself on Teague, that’s going a bit far.


Easy, I never said Charlie's injury was the coach's fault. Just that he didn't seem to discourage Charlie playing basketball I think it was.
Everyone has a right to an opinion. Personally, I would be telling the club's marquee player to take care of himself off the field, and not do anything that might in reasonable terms lead to injury (such as playing another sport).
Do you think in hindsight the coach would rather have handled Charlie's penchant for pursuing extra-curricular activities differently in hindsight?

You seem to think a MAJOR review of all aspects of the football dept isn't warranted. Well that is certainly different to what the incoming president thinks is needed (a full review).
You're clearly not terribly worried that we have won 4 games from 12 matches and our win/loss ratio under the current coach is in constant decline.


Last edited by Paddycripps on Tue Jun 08, 2021 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 3:32 pm 
Offline
Stephen Silvagni
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:06 pm
Posts: 27743
Location: Half back flank
A full review doesn't necessarily equate to scorched earth though.

_________________
#DonTheStash


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 3:36 pm 
Offline
Harry Vallence
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:55 pm
Posts: 1150
Review is like an audit for quality assurance - it merely looks at the football dept systems.

The report is given on recommendations for improvement.. not sack him and sack him.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 3:54 pm 
Offline
Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 1712
OK I see where the confusion lies.
I used the word 'replaced' in the title.
That is not what I meant. I meant overhauled. A serious examination.
And that is what we are getting.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 3:58 pm 
Offline
Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 1712
I should add, if the review is done properly, leaving no stone unturned, and if they find out that most of this is not Teague's fault, and they make the right changes around him, then I will back that. Richmond and Geelong are prime examples of coaches being backed in after difficult times and succeeding.
One has to trust the powers that be are doing the right thing. Even though it might be hard to take that leap given the last 20 years. And even though on the outside looking in I can see many possible reasons why the coach perhaps hasn't performed well enough.
But if they come back and say the game plan is fine and it was assistant coach X and development coach Y that failed us, then I will accept that.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:31 pm 
Offline
Stephen Silvagni
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:06 pm
Posts: 27743
Location: Half back flank
:thumbsup:

_________________
#DonTheStash


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:38 pm 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 15752
Location: Bondi Beach
Paddycripps wrote:
Adam Chatfield wrote:
We’ve already got one casualty, the review will find a lot of things.

Going scorched earth isn’t the answer here. Bit of hyperbole in the OP, but I know that happens when thing aren’t going well.

I really don’t think we can blame Charlie hurting himself on Teague, that’s going a bit far.


Easy, I never said Charlie's injury was the coach's fault. Just that he didn't seem to discourage Charlie playing basketball I think it was.
Everyone has a right to an opinion. Personally, I would be telling the club's marquee player to take care of himself off the field, and not do anything that might in reasonable terms lead to injury (such as playing another sport).
Do you think in hindsight the coach would rather have handled Charlie's penchant for pursuing extra-curricular activities differently in hindsight?

You seem to think a MAJOR review of all aspects of the football dept isn't warranted. Well that is certainly different to what the incoming president thinks is needed (a full review).
You're clearly not terribly worried that we have won 4 games from 12 matches and our win/loss ratio under the current coach is in constant decline.


How did you come to that conclusion from Adam's post?

Teague has nothing to do with Charlie's injury.

Do you know how Charlie injured his knee?

Anyway, great prediction re the thread Title!!

_________________
Lets stick together. Don't believe everything Robinson, Landsberger and Cornes say about Carlton. Shock jocks.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:40 pm 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 15752
Location: Bondi Beach
Paddycripps wrote:
I should add, if the review is done properly, leaving no stone unturned, and if they find out that most of this is not Teague's fault, and they make the right changes around him, then I will back that. Richmond and Geelong are prime examples of coaches being backed in after difficult times and succeeding.
One has to trust the powers that be are doing the right thing. Even though it might be hard to take that leap given the last 20 years. And even though on the outside looking in I can see many possible reasons why the coach perhaps hasn't performed well enough.
But if they come back and say the game plan is fine and it was assistant coach X and development coach Y that failed us, then I will accept that.


Fair enough too. Ditto.

_________________
Lets stick together. Don't believe everything Robinson, Landsberger and Cornes say about Carlton. Shock jocks.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:59 pm 
Offline
Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 1712
bondiblue wrote:
Paddycripps wrote:
Adam Chatfield wrote:
We’ve already got one casualty, the review will find a lot of things.

Going scorched earth isn’t the answer here. Bit of hyperbole in the OP, but I know that happens when thing aren’t going well.

I really don’t think we can blame Charlie hurting himself on Teague, that’s going a bit far.


Easy, I never said Charlie's injury was the coach's fault. Just that he didn't seem to discourage Charlie playing basketball I think it was.
Everyone has a right to an opinion. Personally, I would be telling the club's marquee player to take care of himself off the field, and not do anything that might in reasonable terms lead to injury (such as playing another sport).
Do you think in hindsight the coach would rather have handled Charlie's penchant for pursuing extra-curricular activities differently in hindsight?

You seem to think a MAJOR review of all aspects of the football dept isn't warranted. Well that is certainly different to what the incoming president thinks is needed (a full review).
You're clearly not terribly worried that we have won 4 games from 12 matches and our win/loss ratio under the current coach is in constant decline.


How did you come to that conclusion from Adam's post?

Teague has nothing to do with Charlie's injury.

Do you know how Charlie injured his knee?

Anyway, great prediction re the thread Title!!



How did I come to that conclusion from Adam's post?
Because of this ... "Bit of hyperbole in the OP, but I know that happens when thing aren’t going well."
He doesn't seem terribly fussed.

I do know how he injured his knee. In fact doesn't the whole word know?
https://www.afl.com.au/news/148782/i-se ... all-injury
Basketball.
And I know how he did the more recent knee injury, again publicly announced as kick to kick with his brother.
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2020/11/10/ ... -problems/
Do you think maybe he should ease off on the extra curricular sport? No?

I haev herd rumours also about the injury. Maybe that is what you are alluding to?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:01 pm 
Offline
Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 1712
Let's all hope the review does the trick, because I for one am sick and tired of the failed rebuilds and promises.
The last rebuild got us to 5th, and this one to date hasn't even got us into the 8.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:11 pm 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 15752
Location: Bondi Beach
Paddycripps wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Paddycripps wrote:
Adam Chatfield wrote:
We’ve already got one casualty, the review will find a lot of things.

Going scorched earth isn’t the answer here. Bit of hyperbole in the OP, but I know that happens when thing aren’t going well.

I really don’t think we can blame Charlie hurting himself on Teague, that’s going a bit far.


Easy, I never said Charlie's injury was the coach's fault. Just that he didn't seem to discourage Charlie playing basketball I think it was.
Everyone has a right to an opinion. Personally, I would be telling the club's marquee player to take care of himself off the field, and not do anything that might in reasonable terms lead to injury (such as playing another sport).
Do you think in hindsight the coach would rather have handled Charlie's penchant for pursuing extra-curricular activities differently in hindsight?

You seem to think a MAJOR review of all aspects of the football dept isn't warranted. Well that is certainly different to what the incoming president thinks is needed (a full review).
You're clearly not terribly worried that we have won 4 games from 12 matches and our win/loss ratio under the current coach is in constant decline.


How did you come to that conclusion from Adam's post?

Teague has nothing to do with Charlie's injury.

Do you know how Charlie injured his knee?

Anyway, great prediction re the thread Title!!



How did I come to that conclusion from Adam's post?
Because of this ... "Bit of hyperbole in the OP, but I know that happens when thing aren’t going well."
He doesn't seem terribly fussed.

I do know how he injured his knee. In fact doesn't the whole word know?
https://www.afl.com.au/news/148782/i-se ... all-injury
Basketball.
And I know how he did the more recent knee injury, again publicly announced as kick to kick with his brother.
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2020/11/10/ ... -problems/
Do you think maybe he should ease off on the extra curricular sport? No?

I haev herd rumours also about the injury. Maybe that is what you are alluding to?


Ive heard the rumours too, and I've heard the same from someone who was at the club till the covid cuts.

I don't think a coach can stop AFL players with basketball. So many parallels and its not really a physical game like Aussie rules, Union, League, Water Polo.

I think the review will be good.

I just hope the players are drilled too. There's too many conditional players. I think Teague is too easily influenced. In fact, I was told just yesterday how much influence some players are having on selection....

_________________
Lets stick together. Don't believe everything Robinson, Landsberger and Cornes say about Carlton. Shock jocks.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:28 pm 
Offline
Rod Ashman
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:55 pm
Posts: 2875
Paddycripps wrote:
I should add, if the review is done properly, leaving no stone unturned, and if they find out that most of this is not Teague's fault, and they make the right changes around him, then I will back that. Richmond and Geelong are prime examples of coaches being backed in after difficult times and succeeding.
One has to trust the powers that be are doing the right thing. Even though it might be hard to take that leap given the last 20 years. And even though on the outside looking in I can see many possible reasons why the coach perhaps hasn't performed well enough.
But if they come back and say the game plan is fine and it was assistant coach X and development coach Y that failed us, then I will accept that.

Can I just highlight this:
Hardwick
Played 207 games and won 2 premierships and had all Australian selection in 2000 as a player.
Scott
Played 215 games and won 2 premierships as a player. He also played for Australia.
Teague
Played 83 games.

Fagan is an exception with how good he has the Lions playing, but he also added mature "premiership" players at the end of their careers like Hodge to help him. Teague added McGovern and to his credit Betts, but even now that is questionable if it was the right move to make.
IMO we are seriously lacking people at the club that have not only had success at the highest level but demand it and unfortunately this starts at the coach down for us.
Luke Power is the only coach we have with some pedigree behind him and even though many other clubs don't have a whole lot either, we need it.
Especially at this point in our super loooooooooooooooooong rebuild.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:29 pm 
Offline
Rod Ashman
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:55 pm
Posts: 2875
Paddycripps wrote:
Let's all hope the review does the trick, because I for one am sick and tired of the failed rebuilds and promises.
The last rebuild got us to 5th, and this one to date hasn't even got us into the 8.

x 2


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:16 pm 
Offline
Craig Bradley
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:16 pm
Posts: 7929
Location: Sydney
Sidefx wrote:
Paddycripps wrote:
Let's all hope the review does the trick, because I for one am sick and tired of the failed rebuilds and promises.
The last rebuild got us to 5th, and this one to date hasn't even got us into the 8.

x 2


The last rebuild got us to 10th, and these two to date haven't even got us into the 16.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC + 10 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Blue Vain, BluGal, rhino27, Stranger and 15 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group