TalkingCarlton :: View topic - Entire Football Dept needs overhauling

We’ve already got one casualty, the review will find a lot of things.

Going scorched earth isn’t the answer here. Bit of hyperbole in the OP, but I know that happens when thing aren’t going well.

I really don’t think we can blame Charlie hurting himself on Teague, that’s going a bit far.

Adam Chatfield wrote:

Easy, I never said Charlie's injury was the coach's fault. Just that he didn't seem to discourage Charlie playing basketball I think it was.
Everyone has a right to an opinion. Personally, I would be telling the club's marquee player to take care of himself off the field, and not do anything that might in reasonable terms lead to injury (such as playing another sport).
Do you think in hindsight the coach would rather have handled Charlie's penchant for pursuing extra-curricular activities differently in hindsight?

You seem to think a MAJOR review of all aspects of the football dept isn't warranted. Well that is certainly different to what the incoming president thinks is needed (a full review).
You're clearly not terribly worried that we have won 4 games from 12 matches and our win/loss ratio under the current coach is in constant decline.

I should add, if the review is done properly, leaving no stone unturned, and if they find out that most of this is not Teague's fault, and they make the right changes around him, then I will back that. Richmond and Geelong are prime examples of coaches being backed in after difficult times and succeeding.
One has to trust the powers that be are doing the right thing. Even though it might be hard to take that leap given the last 20 years. And even though on the outside looking in I can see many possible reasons why the coach perhaps hasn't performed well enough.
But if they come back and say the game plan is fine and it was assistant coach X and development coach Y that failed us, then I will accept that.

Paddycripps wrote:

Adam Chatfield wrote:

How did you come to that conclusion from Adam's post?

Teague has nothing to do with Charlie's injury.

Do you know how Charlie injured his knee?

Anyway, great prediction re the thread Title!!

bondiblue wrote:

Paddycripps wrote:

Adam Chatfield wrote:

How did you come to that conclusion from Adam's post?

Teague has nothing to do with Charlie's injury.

Do you know how Charlie injured his knee?

Anyway, great prediction re the thread Title!!

How did I come to that conclusion from Adam's post?
Because of this ... "Bit of hyperbole in the OP, but I know that happens when thing aren’t going well."
He doesn't seem terribly fussed.

I do know how he injured his knee. In fact doesn't the whole word know?
https://www.afl.com.au/news/148782/i-se ... all-injury
Basketball.
And I know how he did the more recent knee injury, again publicly announced as kick to kick with his brother.
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2020/11/10/ ... -problems/
Do you think maybe he should ease off on the extra curricular sport? No?

I haev herd rumours also about the injury. Maybe that is what you are alluding to?

Let's all hope the review does the trick, because I for one am sick and tired of the failed rebuilds and promises.
The last rebuild got us to 5th, and this one to date hasn't even got us into the 8.

Paddycripps wrote:

Let's all hope the review does the trick, because I for one am sick and tired of the failed rebuilds and promises.
The last rebuild got us to 5th, and this one to date hasn't even got us into the 8.

x 2

Author:	Paddycripps [ Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:56 am ]
Post subject:	Entire Football Dept needs overhauling
The entire football dept at Carlton needs to be overhauled. We are on the brink of another rebuild or at least serious renovation given the current problems. Which extend beyond just the senior coach. Obviously the coach needs to be looked at. Here is a coach who thinks defence is an after-thought. A coach who didn't do much to discourage the club's best young talent from not pursuing whatever extra-curricular sporting pursuits that might cause an injury to his body. A coach who based off his own words seems to have failed at teaching his players the basics of the game. A coach who's win and loss record is falling at a rate of knots (2019 : 55%, 2020 41%, 2021 33%). A coach who bafflingly thinks confidence isn't something that happens at the flick of a switch, but who also believes in the light bulb theory of form. But it's not just him. The powers that be need to be held accountable for appointing the coach without undertaking true due diligence. Seriously, he was appointed so quickly, amidst the stench of player and supporter support, does anyone really think the club went through a lengthy interview process with multiple candidates? Team selection and broader list management has also been diabolical. We sold the farm to get the likes of Saad (who refuses to defend) and Williams (who isn't fit enough to play midfield - despite the fact that's why we brought him to the club) in the belief we were finals bound, and we currently languish in 14th spot. We have a captain who will likely sign on pretty big dollars but for whom all of the current (and recent - see 2020) evidence suggests is almost definitely past his best. We have an ex captain who is nearing his 300th game, but who let's face it probably shouldn't be in the 22 anymore. The fumble on the wing yesterday was telling and sad in equal measures. Say what you want about Murphy but in previous years he would never have made such a mistake. And now the club have little choice but to gift Murph the 5 or so games he needs despite knowing deep down they wish they didn't have to do this. Talk about being compromised. Then there is player development (hello assistant coaches). McKay, as good as he has been, clearly struggles with the drop punt. The stats that Fox Footy revealed in yesterday's broadcast suggest Harry is far, far more likely to kick goals if he kicks around the side of his body. So why he continues to try the drop punt sometimes, usually with negative results, is not just an indictment on him but also the assistant coaches (and by extension the head coach). And what has happened to our plethora of young midfielders who in the main were taken in the first round of the draft? Dow looked reasonable yesterday, despite struggling to hit a target by foot. SPS it would appear has possibly played his last game for the club, after being left to ply his trade as a small defender when it was clear tot everyone outside the club he simply is not a defender. O'Brien it would appear is finished. Pre-injury Cuningham still hadn't solidified his spot in the team. Setterfield is in the team but his place in the 22 still feels very precarious. Have I missed anyone (don't say WALSH - he was pick 1 for Goodness sakes!). I could go on (why do Gibbons in 2020 and 2021, and this year Fogarty start the year so well then fade miserably after about 5 games?). As my good mate and fellow tortured Carlton buddy said last night "what a shambles". The club need some sort of enquiry. But I suspect they won't do this. The sad thing is I now suspect anyone with any semblance of power doesn't care enough anymore.

Author:	Paddycripps [ Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:06 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Entire Football Dept needs replacing
And so Sayers is leading an inquiry. Good. Hope it's fair dinkum.

Author:	carntheblues [ Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:18 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Entire Football Dept needs replacing
Just because we are not winning as we would like doesn't mean we need to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Author:	dannyboy [ Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:35 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Entire Football Dept needs replacing
maybe put the baby up for adoption and start again?

Author:	Drewgirl [ Tue Jun 08, 2021 2:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Entire Football Dept needs replacing
Get rid of Jack Russell too. The best in the business no longer.

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Entire Football Dept needs overhauling https://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=37237	Page 1 of 2

Author:	Adam Chatfield [ Tue Jun 08, 2021 2:35 pm ]
Post subject:	Entire Football Dept needs replacing
We’ve already got one casualty, the review will find a lot of things. Going scorched earth isn’t the answer here. Bit of hyperbole in the OP, but I know that happens when thing aren’t going well. I really don’t think we can blame Charlie hurting himself on Teague, that’s going a bit far.

Author:	Paddycripps [ Tue Jun 08, 2021 3:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Entire Football Dept needs replacing
Adam Chatfield wrote: We’ve already got one casualty, the review will find a lot of things. Going scorched earth isn’t the answer here. Bit of hyperbole in the OP, but I know that happens when thing aren’t going well. I really don’t think we can blame Charlie hurting himself on Teague, that’s going a bit far. Easy, I never said Charlie's injury was the coach's fault. Just that he didn't seem to discourage Charlie playing basketball I think it was. Everyone has a right to an opinion. Personally, I would be telling the club's marquee player to take care of himself off the field, and not do anything that might in reasonable terms lead to injury (such as playing another sport). Do you think in hindsight the coach would rather have handled Charlie's penchant for pursuing extra-curricular activities differently in hindsight? You seem to think a MAJOR review of all aspects of the football dept isn't warranted. Well that is certainly different to what the incoming president thinks is needed (a full review). You're clearly not terribly worried that we have won 4 games from 12 matches and our win/loss ratio under the current coach is in constant decline.

Author:	CK95 [ Tue Jun 08, 2021 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Entire Football Dept needs replacing
A full review doesn't necessarily equate to scorched earth though.

Author:	Walsh [ Tue Jun 08, 2021 3:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Entire Football Dept needs replacing
Review is like an audit for quality assurance - it merely looks at the football dept systems. The report is given on recommendations for improvement.. not sack him and sack him.

Author:	Paddycripps [ Tue Jun 08, 2021 3:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Entire Football Dept needs overhauling
OK I see where the confusion lies. I used the word 'replaced' in the title. That is not what I meant. I meant overhauled. A serious examination. And that is what we are getting.

Author:	Paddycripps [ Tue Jun 08, 2021 3:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Entire Football Dept needs overhauling
I should add, if the review is done properly, leaving no stone unturned, and if they find out that most of this is not Teague's fault, and they make the right changes around him, then I will back that. Richmond and Geelong are prime examples of coaches being backed in after difficult times and succeeding. One has to trust the powers that be are doing the right thing. Even though it might be hard to take that leap given the last 20 years. And even though on the outside looking in I can see many possible reasons why the coach perhaps hasn't performed well enough. But if they come back and say the game plan is fine and it was assistant coach X and development coach Y that failed us, then I will accept that.

Author:	CK95 [ Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Entire Football Dept needs overhauling

Author:	bondiblue [ Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Entire Football Dept needs replacing
Paddycripps wrote: Adam Chatfield wrote: We’ve already got one casualty, the review will find a lot of things. Going scorched earth isn’t the answer here. Bit of hyperbole in the OP, but I know that happens when thing aren’t going well. I really don’t think we can blame Charlie hurting himself on Teague, that’s going a bit far. Easy, I never said Charlie's injury was the coach's fault. Just that he didn't seem to discourage Charlie playing basketball I think it was. Everyone has a right to an opinion. Personally, I would be telling the club's marquee player to take care of himself off the field, and not do anything that might in reasonable terms lead to injury (such as playing another sport). Do you think in hindsight the coach would rather have handled Charlie's penchant for pursuing extra-curricular activities differently in hindsight? You seem to think a MAJOR review of all aspects of the football dept isn't warranted. Well that is certainly different to what the incoming president thinks is needed (a full review). You're clearly not terribly worried that we have won 4 games from 12 matches and our win/loss ratio under the current coach is in constant decline. How did you come to that conclusion from Adam's post? Teague has nothing to do with Charlie's injury. Do you know how Charlie injured his knee? Anyway, great prediction re the thread Title!!

Author:	bondiblue [ Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Entire Football Dept needs overhauling
Paddycripps wrote: I should add, if the review is done properly, leaving no stone unturned, and if they find out that most of this is not Teague's fault, and they make the right changes around him, then I will back that. Richmond and Geelong are prime examples of coaches being backed in after difficult times and succeeding. One has to trust the powers that be are doing the right thing. Even though it might be hard to take that leap given the last 20 years. And even though on the outside looking in I can see many possible reasons why the coach perhaps hasn't performed well enough. But if they come back and say the game plan is fine and it was assistant coach X and development coach Y that failed us, then I will accept that. Fair enough too. Ditto.

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Author:	Paddycripps [ Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Entire Football Dept needs replacing
bondiblue wrote: Paddycripps wrote: Adam Chatfield wrote: We’ve already got one casualty, the review will find a lot of things. Going scorched earth isn’t the answer here. Bit of hyperbole in the OP, but I know that happens when thing aren’t going well. I really don’t think we can blame Charlie hurting himself on Teague, that’s going a bit far. Easy, I never said Charlie's injury was the coach's fault. Just that he didn't seem to discourage Charlie playing basketball I think it was. Everyone has a right to an opinion. Personally, I would be telling the club's marquee player to take care of himself off the field, and not do anything that might in reasonable terms lead to injury (such as playing another sport). Do you think in hindsight the coach would rather have handled Charlie's penchant for pursuing extra-curricular activities differently in hindsight? You seem to think a MAJOR review of all aspects of the football dept isn't warranted. Well that is certainly different to what the incoming president thinks is needed (a full review). You're clearly not terribly worried that we have won 4 games from 12 matches and our win/loss ratio under the current coach is in constant decline. How did you come to that conclusion from Adam's post? Teague has nothing to do with Charlie's injury. Do you know how Charlie injured his knee? Anyway, great prediction re the thread Title!! How did I come to that conclusion from Adam's post? Because of this ... "Bit of hyperbole in the OP, but I know that happens when thing aren’t going well." He doesn't seem terribly fussed. I do know how he injured his knee. In fact doesn't the whole word know? https://www.afl.com.au/news/148782/i-se ... all-injury Basketball. And I know how he did the more recent knee injury, again publicly announced as kick to kick with his brother. https://www.sen.com.au/news/2020/11/10/ ... -problems/ Do you think maybe he should ease off on the extra curricular sport? No? I haev herd rumours also about the injury. Maybe that is what you are alluding to?

Author:	Paddycripps [ Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Entire Football Dept needs overhauling
Let's all hope the review does the trick, because I for one am sick and tired of the failed rebuilds and promises. The last rebuild got us to 5th, and this one to date hasn't even got us into the 8.

Author:	bondiblue [ Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Entire Football Dept needs replacing
Paddycripps wrote: bondiblue wrote: Paddycripps wrote: Adam Chatfield wrote: We’ve already got one casualty, the review will find a lot of things. Going scorched earth isn’t the answer here. Bit of hyperbole in the OP, but I know that happens when thing aren’t going well. I really don’t think we can blame Charlie hurting himself on Teague, that’s going a bit far. Easy, I never said Charlie's injury was the coach's fault. Just that he didn't seem to discourage Charlie playing basketball I think it was. Everyone has a right to an opinion. Personally, I would be telling the club's marquee player to take care of himself off the field, and not do anything that might in reasonable terms lead to injury (such as playing another sport). Do you think in hindsight the coach would rather have handled Charlie's penchant for pursuing extra-curricular activities differently in hindsight? You seem to think a MAJOR review of all aspects of the football dept isn't warranted. Well that is certainly different to what the incoming president thinks is needed (a full review). You're clearly not terribly worried that we have won 4 games from 12 matches and our win/loss ratio under the current coach is in constant decline. How did you come to that conclusion from Adam's post? Teague has nothing to do with Charlie's injury. Do you know how Charlie injured his knee? Anyway, great prediction re the thread Title!! How did I come to that conclusion from Adam's post? Because of this ... "Bit of hyperbole in the OP, but I know that happens when thing aren’t going well." He doesn't seem terribly fussed. I do know how he injured his knee. In fact doesn't the whole word know? https://www.afl.com.au/news/148782/i-se ... all-injury Basketball. And I know how he did the more recent knee injury, again publicly announced as kick to kick with his brother. https://www.sen.com.au/news/2020/11/10/ ... -problems/ Do you think maybe he should ease off on the extra curricular sport? No? I haev herd rumours also about the injury. Maybe that is what you are alluding to? Ive heard the rumours too, and I've heard the same from someone who was at the club till the covid cuts. I don't think a coach can stop AFL players with basketball. So many parallels and its not really a physical game like Aussie rules, Union, League, Water Polo. I think the review will be good. I just hope the players are drilled too. There's too many conditional players. I think Teague is too easily influenced. In fact, I was told just yesterday how much influence some players are having on selection....

Author:	Sidefx [ Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Entire Football Dept needs overhauling
Paddycripps wrote: I should add, if the review is done properly, leaving no stone unturned, and if they find out that most of this is not Teague's fault, and they make the right changes around him, then I will back that. Richmond and Geelong are prime examples of coaches being backed in after difficult times and succeeding. One has to trust the powers that be are doing the right thing. Even though it might be hard to take that leap given the last 20 years. And even though on the outside looking in I can see many possible reasons why the coach perhaps hasn't performed well enough. But if they come back and say the game plan is fine and it was assistant coach X and development coach Y that failed us, then I will accept that. Can I just highlight this: Hardwick Played 207 games and won 2 premierships and had all Australian selection in 2000 as a player. Scott Played 215 games and won 2 premierships as a player. He also played for Australia. Teague Played 83 games. Fagan is an exception with how good he has the Lions playing, but he also added mature "premiership" players at the end of their careers like Hodge to help him. Teague added McGovern and to his credit Betts, but even now that is questionable if it was the right move to make. IMO we are seriously lacking people at the club that have not only had success at the highest level but demand it and unfortunately this starts at the coach down for us. Luke Power is the only coach we have with some pedigree behind him and even though many other clubs don't have a whole lot either, we need it. Especially at this point in our super loooooooooooooooooong rebuild.

Author:	Sidefx [ Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Entire Football Dept needs overhauling
Paddycripps wrote: Let's all hope the review does the trick, because I for one am sick and tired of the failed rebuilds and promises. The last rebuild got us to 5th, and this one to date hasn't even got us into the 8. x 2

Author:	GreatEx [ Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Entire Football Dept needs overhauling
Sidefx wrote: Paddycripps wrote: Let's all hope the review does the trick, because I for one am sick and tired of the failed rebuilds and promises. The last rebuild got us to 5th, and this one to date hasn't even got us into the 8. x 2 The last rebuild got us to 10th, and these two to date haven't even got us into the 16.