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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:22 am 
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Harry Vallence
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Young coaches have far more upside than used coaches - Goodwin was facing the sack in 2019 & 2020.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2019/08/24/ ... f-goodwin/

Sacking coaches is not going to solve anything. Players will need to learn everything new again and take them at least two-three years to master it. Whats the point? It could be next season we make the jump.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:30 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Walsh wrote:
Sacking coaches is not going to solve anything. Players will need to learn everything new again and take them at least two-three years to master it. Whats the point? It could be next season we make the jump.



That is the argument that keeps me coming back to the keep Teague side.

He doesn't fill me with much confidence though.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:39 am 
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Harry Vallence
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CK95 wrote:
Walsh wrote:
Sacking coaches is not going to solve anything. Players will need to learn everything new again and take them at least two-three years to master it. Whats the point? It could be next season we make the jump.



That is the argument that keeps me coming back to the keep Teague side.

He doesn't fill me with much confidence though.


If he doesn't lose the players and keep working them hard - unlikely he will be sacked.

Football dept has a huge challenge on their hands strategically that needs to be rectified even in baby steps next two weeks.

Player personnel probably needs to change around abit. Stocker, Docherty and JSOS in the midfield for their hunger for the contest and can stick a tackle.

Whatever it may be - the football dept needs to work through it. They tried to entertain fans and AFL community at large with breakneck speed footy; noble effort but hasnt worked.

But thats alright - keep working the players hard and figure something else out. breakneck speed footy could be a Plan B or C in future.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:44 am 
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Harry Vallence

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I have these doubts from time to time too but really depends how we rate Teague and who the new incoming coach would be as well as our talent profile.

If we legitimately are wasting time with Teague then imagine trying to make the same decision 2 years down the track.

Luke Beveridge got Dogs in the finals in his first season after they sacked Mccartney, won a flag in his second and regular finals since.
Lyon got Fremantle into finals in his first season, grand final in his second and then 3 top 4 finishes in a row.
Pyke finals first year at Adelaide, grand final second season
Hinkley 5th in his first season at Port
Ratten finals first season at St Kilda (obv haven't quite got on with it)

In fact most coaches do see a bit of an immediate jump if they're any good. Obviously depends heavily on the profile of the list and many many other factors but if we genuinely think Teague is no good or that we will start to lose players (either through trade or wasted development) then we gotta get moving.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:47 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Docherty I dare say wouldn’t be worth much
He needs to be relieved of the captaincy.
I think Weitering would make a good captain

In relation to JOS he isn’t good enough to play forward. He is too slow and his kicking isn’t good enough
But he plays with intent. I would love to see him play extended minutes as a mid particularly at stoppages. He is excellent in heavy traffic. His hand pass to Betts that resulted in a goal was awesome.

The other guy (don’t laugh) I would like to see play mid is Owies.
He plays with intent. He has footy smarts. He reminds me of Rory Laird. I don’t know what his tank is like but I really like this bloke.
Teague needs to experiment in the last ten games.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:48 am 
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Rod Ashman
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Start by getting rid of Worsfold as the mentor... what a terrible decision. He was even an anchor at Essendon* and that is saying something!


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:58 am 
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Harry Vallence
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It's too early to tell. Walsh, Stocker, H, Weitering, JSOS and Owies have really come on as AFL footballers past two years.

Cripps has fallen away but not his fault. Players that have stagnated badly or gone backwards like SPS and LOB not much you can do there.

Setterfield is a talent that is playing with no form and confidence.

Theres almost 18 players coming out of contract and this off season will be "fine tuning" the rebuild. But in terms of coaching - not really upset by individual player development tbh. Gameplan needs a big adjustment, better luck with injurues and need reinforcements in the midfield as we are outright crap through the middle. Too weak physically.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:07 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Scotty12000 wrote:
You can’t tell me Clarkson or Fagan or even Lyon wouldn’t have this list humming

In addition, you can’t tell me some decent assistant line coaches and a Chocko Williams or similar hardnut overseeing the whip cracking wouldn’t develop a no BS hard edge to this list

The talent is there, they’re just trotting around coz their senior coach is just trotting around, with his assistants trotting around behind him


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:08 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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bondiblue wrote:
99prelim wrote:
This a coaching issue, not a personnel issue. PERIOD

Quality coaches drive the standards, set the tone for success, build culture, establish non-negotiables, adhere to applying consequences fairly, reward those who demonstrate buy-in through their performances, devise a gameplan that is effective, sustainable but also can be tweaked to suit scenarios A, B, C, D etc. (system-they call it)

We do not need a rebuild. Of course we have gaps but every team will identify gaps in their list



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:20 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Consider trading Fisher if he doesn’t or can’t play midfield

He has some value

Making him a permanent forward was a baffling decision

He looked good in first few years as a running wingman/midfielder

The other player is SPS, who has not come on and has some value. Although, it is dropping by the day if he is not playing seniors.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:48 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Fisher is an elite assist player/ball user, he's someone who creates lots of chances going inside 50.

I don't get the love for Silvagni. Is it the name?

Hasn't shown an ability to play onball.

Doesn't impact the scoreboard much - an average converter.

We need more than effort. He doesn't manage many tackles per game either. He's in his 6th season.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:55 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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I genuinely don't think we're miles off, if we have a coach with some nous.

For starters, draw a line through Murphy, Newnes, Setterfield, Cottrell and Curnow out of yesterday's team.
O'Brien, Parks, Fogarty, Plowman come in, perhaps SPS or Honey.
Need to persist with Pittonet in the absence of another option, unless we try something left field like Kennedy to pinch hit in the ruck.

We still have Charlie, Kemp, Philp and Ramsay up our sleeve, jury out on 3 of them still and Curnow unknown. Williamson worth persisting with.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:09 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:21 pm
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CK95 wrote:
Walsh wrote:
Sacking coaches is not going to solve anything. Players will need to learn everything new again and take them at least two-three years to master it. Whats the point? It could be next season we make the jump.



That is the argument that keeps me coming back to the keep Teague side.

He doesn't fill me with much confidence though.
Barely anyone has filled me with much confidence in 20 years.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:45 pm 
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Ken Hands

Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:31 pm
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I don’t think we need another rebuild but I do think we need to actually take stock of where we’re at across all levels - playing group, coaches and management.
Last off season we completely overrated where the club is at and recruited to play finals this year. 12 games in and we're 7% off the bottom 4. It greatly concerns me that our football decision makers (such as the head of football Brad Lloyd) thought we would make the finals but we look no where near it. How does this happen? It’s a miscalculation of our list and the ability of our coaches. The Lloyd interview on SEN was truly baffling. The guy looks lost for answers as does Teague in his press conference.
This is why we need an external independent review. Get a couple of well respected successful ex players to make an independent assessment of the list. Get a couple of well respected successful coaches to assess our coaches. Same for our management.
Until our club actually steps back, independently assesses the issues and crafts solutions, no one appointment (such as a new coach) will change this club alone.
I said this last night - this club went and rebuilt its list but it never addressed the weak culture that has permeated through every level of this club since about 2002. I suspect an external review would shine some light on this and may finally result in action across the whole club. Not just this continual search for a messiah we continue to undertake.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 2:16 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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WOW wrote:
Consider trading Fisher if he doesn’t or can’t play midfield

He has some value

Making him a permanent forward was a baffling decision

He looked good in first few years as a running wingman/midfielder

The other player is SPS, who has not come on and has some value. Although, it is dropping by the day if he is not playing seniors.


That's silly. He looked like the only one who could have got us back into it against WC.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 2:28 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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I think our culture is the biggest hurdle we need to overcome.

Simply put, we think things will just happen for us (players). Or the variation is that if we buy in the expertise, things will just happen for us (Board).

Like most things in life, talent is great until everyone around you starts working harder. Then talent is no longer enough.
We need to work harder on and off the field. Scrap that, not harder. Hardest.

We need to be so well prepared that we don't hesitate on the field, either through uncertainty, or stamina, or strength. Each and every player needs to make sure they are prepared for every scenario, physically and mentally. And also prepared for the scenarios we don't think of. (i.e. What principles do we play by? And why?)

And on top of weeding out the players who don't have the skills or the work ethic, we also need to get rid of dumb players - we made a lot of simply dumb decisions yesterday.
And sub-standard assistant coaches.

Keep Teague; change the assistants. Review this time again next year and if significant progress is not evident, then change the coach.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 2:35 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Lot of talk about our list. But lets be brutal. Have a look at Richmonds list. Their bottom six are not all that great. I donlt think their list is superior. Bulldogs midfield smashes them man for man - on paper. But they all work bloody hard in a system that works.

What irks me most, is we don't seem to do anything hard. Our workrate is average, our skills are average, our team defense is poor, our understanding of the game is poor, our leadership is poor, our pressure is average etc It just goes on and on. We stand for nothing but average.

However, all of these things can be improved.

I'm in Healy's camp. I don't think we are as far away as some think. BUT, we need to make some fundamental changes to start lifting all of the areas we are deficient in.

And yes, I'd like to see an independent review do a thorough investigation that sees real improvement.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:08 pm 
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Ken Hands

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can we change this long bomb u12 game plan (which i have been saying for 2 yrs ) . Need a preseason that is tuff ( running and weights). Trade sps ,setters see wat we get and the big fish CRIPPS if we get 2 first rnds or 1 st with a player of our choice and the deal favours us DO IT. Crippa is 26 yrs old and his body is struggling already .


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:53 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:17 pm
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Paddycripps wrote:
WOW wrote:
Consider trading Fisher if he doesn’t or can’t play midfield

He has some value

Making him a permanent forward was a baffling decision

He looked good in first few years as a running wingman/midfielder

The other player is SPS, who has not come on and has some value. Although, it is dropping by the day if he is not playing seniors.


That's silly. He looked like the only one who could have got us back into it against WC.


This is one of the reasons why we have been mediocre for such a long period. Happy to remain stagnant with our recruiting, trading and game development. If he can’t play midfield and has value, why wouldn’t you consider trading him for a midfielder. An area of the ground where we are so deficient. Nah, let’s continue treading water and remain irrelevant.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:21 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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We have had enough senior coaches. Stick with Teague for the next 5 years.

Change the assistants if necessary to a man and with experience.

As Pratt once said, or something like

Get the best, I don't care if he's already employed that's why he is the best.

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