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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 8:47 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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Location: Bondi Beach
Scotty12000 wrote:
You can’t tell me Clarkson or Fagan or even Lyon wouldn’t have this list humming

In addition, you can’t tell me some decent assistant line coaches and a Chocko Williams or similar hardnut overseeing the whip cracking wouldn’t develop a no BS hard edge to this list

The talent is there, they’re just trotting around coz their senior coach is just trotting around, with his assistants trotting around behind him


THIS

but please not Clarkson

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 8:49 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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99prelim wrote:
This a coaching issue, not a personnel issue. PERIOD

Quality coaches drive the standards, set the tone for success, build culture, establish non-negotiables, adhere to applying consequences fairly, reward those who demonstrate buy-in through their performances, devise a gameplan that is effective, sustainable but also can be tweaked to suit scenarios A, B, C, D etc. (system-they call it)

We do not need a rebuild. Of course we have gaps but every team will identify gaps in their list



THIS

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 8:55 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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bondiblue wrote:
99prelim wrote:
This a coaching issue, not a personnel issue. PERIOD

Quality coaches drive the standards, set the tone for success, build culture, establish non-negotiables, adhere to applying consequences fairly, reward those who demonstrate buy-in through their performances, devise a gameplan that is effective, sustainable but also can be tweaked to suit scenarios A, B, C, D etc. (system-they call it)

We do not need a rebuild. Of course we have gaps but every team will identify gaps in their list



THIS

Yep.
Rebuild time is over.
It's time to top up with mature talent and change the coaching group.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:08 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:36 am
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... only to the coaching panel.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:14 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Not another rebuild FFS.

The players are there, the talent is there.

Just stop babying these grown adults, make them accountable and set some @#$%&! standards.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:23 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:17 pm
Posts: 1482
Sidefx wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
99prelim wrote:
This a coaching issue, not a personnel issue. PERIOD

Quality coaches drive the standards, set the tone for success, build culture, establish non-negotiables, adhere to applying consequences fairly, reward those who demonstrate buy-in through their performances, devise a gameplan that is effective, sustainable but also can be tweaked to suit scenarios A, B, C, D etc. (system-they call it)

We do not need a rebuild. Of course we have gaps but every team will identify gaps in their list



THIS

Yep.
Rebuild time is over.
It's time to top up with mature talent and change the coaching group.


We have topped up with mature talent on big salaries. Has not worked.

We need to find another 6 - 8 players.

Our current list is not good enough.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:40 pm 
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Horrie Clover

Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:16 pm
Posts: 383
Scotty12000 wrote:
You can’t tell me Clarkson or Fagan or even Lyon wouldn’t have this list humming

In addition, you can’t tell me some decent assistant line coaches and a Chocko Williams or similar hardnut overseeing the whip cracking wouldn’t develop a no BS hard edge to this list

The talent is there, they’re just trotting around coz their senior coach is just trotting around, with his assistants trotting around behind him



dead @#$%&! right


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:42 pm 
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Horrie Clover

Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:16 pm
Posts: 383
bondiblue wrote:
99prelim wrote:
This a coaching issue, not a personnel issue. PERIOD

Quality coaches drive the standards, set the tone for success, build culture, establish non-negotiables, adhere to applying consequences fairly, reward those who demonstrate buy-in through their performances, devise a gameplan that is effective, sustainable but also can be tweaked to suit scenarios A, B, C, D etc. (system-they call it)

We do not need a rebuild. Of course we have gaps but every team will identify gaps in their list



THIS


Teague coaching sitting on boundary cross legged trying to stay awake like day three of a business conference.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 10:00 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
Posts: 2935
Donstuie wrote:
Not another rebuild FFS.

The players are there, the talent is there.

Just stop babying these grown adults, make them accountable and set some @#$%&! standards.



:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 11:09 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:14 pm
Posts: 5621
Location: Melbourne
Walsh wrote:
Paddycripps wrote:
People say we are 'close'.

I am not sure I agree. I think this is as good as we can be. We are terribly average. Actually below average. One level above the worst teams.


We need our best players training and playing together every week like Melbourne and Bulldogs and Richmond before them.


People won’t want to hear it but we haven’t amassed enough talent or starters and secondly the side hasn’t played enough together.

Starting again would be stupid, we have a fair few pieces that we need but we clearly don’t have enough.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 11:13 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:14 pm
Posts: 5621
Location: Melbourne
WOW wrote:
Scotty12000 wrote:
You can’t tell me Clarkson or Fagan or even Lyon wouldn’t have this list humming

In addition, you can’t tell me some decent assistant line coaches and a Chocko Williams or similar hardnut overseeing the whip cracking wouldn’t develop a no BS hard edge to this list

The talent is there, they’re just trotting around coz their senior coach is just trotting around, with his assistants trotting around behind him


We continually overrate our list. There is some talent but we lack depth in our 22. Our bottom tier players are rubbish.

I said this earlier this year but we need a mini rebuild. Not a total rebuild.

Which means that our ambitions are delayed by another 2 - 3 years.

The risk now is that we could lose players that we don’t want to lose. The key is to retain the quality core and trade out players with some value eg SPS, Fisher etc.

Otherwise, it’s like banging your head against a brick wall.


We haven’t botched it as badly as Melbourne did when they went and got Neeld, and made Grimes and Trengrove captains, we have at least got some talent in, but nowhere near enough.

I think most of the list will get a reasonable crack at it rest of the year to see if they are up to it or not.

Dow and Setters played on ball today and Ed pushed more to the fringes, well we saw the result…..


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 11:17 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:14 pm
Posts: 5621
Location: Melbourne
Sydney Blue wrote:
We as a club need to get out of the bottom 6 and stay out for 3 to 4 years.
Making the 8 and playing finals is fantasy land stuff.
Rebuilding doesnt work as it creates a culture of winning doesn't matter.
No more chasing big names just work with what you have and learn to win.
This go to the draft get the best then top up is just bullshit.
We have had 5 number 1 draft picks umpteen first round picks.

You don't draft winning teams you draft individuals .
You need to build a winning team by doing the hard yards and accepting your situation and work hard to get out of it.
21 22 23 stay out of bottom 6
24 25 stay out of bottom 8
26 27 possibly play finals.

That should be the aim.
Achieve it and then we might get some where.

We have dumb stupid players who are not going to teach young players as they don't know themselves.

Do the grind and learn





Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk


I agree, there is no magic formula, just need to work to get better and build a culture where fighting and trying to win is always the aim and there is no easy out.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 11:19 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:14 pm
Posts: 5621
Location: Melbourne
WOW wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
99prelim wrote:
This a coaching issue, not a personnel issue. PERIOD

Quality coaches drive the standards, set the tone for success, build culture, establish non-negotiables, adhere to applying consequences fairly, reward those who demonstrate buy-in through their performances, devise a gameplan that is effective, sustainable but also can be tweaked to suit scenarios A, B, C, D etc. (system-they call it)

We do not need a rebuild. Of course we have gaps but every team will identify gaps in their list



THIS

Yep.
Rebuild time is over.
It's time to top up with mature talent and change the coaching group.


We have topped up with mature talent on big salaries. Has not worked.

We need to find another 6 - 8 players.

Our current list is not good enough.


Yep, pretty depressing when a category b rookie in Owies may have more of a future in the game than 4 former top 10 picks.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:46 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 4982
I don’t think Cripps has signed yet.
It hurts me to say this but I would let him go.
The AFL would give us a top 10 compensation pick
It would free up space in the draft to re-sign McKay and Walsh
He isn’t the same effective player. You have to be able to run further and not just handball.
Oliver has taken his game to a new level in this area. Cripps hasn’t.

Trade Petrevski-Seton whose contract is up. You may get a second rounder for him.
That would mean 4 picks in the first roughly 36 picks and target mids.
delist
Murphy
O’Brien
Kennedy
Betts
Newnes
Silvangi
Curnow
The last 2 are hard choices but Curnow is getting on and SOJ just isn’t dynamic enough
I would play him in the midfield for the rest of the year to see how effective he can be

Before the year is out try Ramsay and Honey for extended periods as their contract is up
Play Stocker in the middle. See what he has got
Williamson has been disappointing this year but I would like to see him up forward
Docherty is a huge concern for me. Has had it tough but is the shadow of the player he once was.
Relieve him of the captain duties.
Make Weitering captain

Let’s hope Carroll Durdin Kemp come on in 2022
We are saddled with Martin McGovern Williams Saad on long term deals
They need to get better otherwise drop them
So sad to see the club not progressing but the club needs to make bold drastic change

The recruiting last year and the ethos around it has failed.
Let’s hope Curnow makes a full recovery. He would certainly add to the team.
The AFL train continues to chug along. The club needs to acknowledge that things haven’t worked
Sacking the coach as has been proven at this club over 20 doesn’t solve the problem


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:19 am 
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Trevor Keogh
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Location: Brisbane
Might be a mini rebuild if we trade away a few player.

We seem set to trade Pet-set yeah I feel this will happen, but do we have anyone else with trade value.. Obrien? Kennedy? Just not sure there would be any takers.

So I assume we only have 4 picks, so we cant cut too deep.

Murphy (ret) Betts (ret) Cas (ret??) would be 3 of those at a guess due to age and in Casboults case, age + body shot.

One more delisting to make way.

Dealers choice on who that may be.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:41 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 2:10 pm
Posts: 1582
keogh wrote:
I don’t think Cripps has signed yet.
It hurts me to say this but I would let him go.
The AFL would give us a top 10 compensation pick
It would free up space in the draft to re-sign McKay and Walsh
He isn’t the same effective player. You have to be able to run further and not just handball.
Oliver has taken his game to a new level in this area. Cripps hasn’t.

Trade Petrevski-Seton whose contract is up. You may get a second rounder for him.
That would mean 4 picks in the first roughly 36 picks and target mids.
delist
Murphy
O’Brien
Kennedy
Betts
Newnes
Silvangi
Curnow
The last 2 are hard choices but Curnow is getting on and SOJ just isn’t dynamic enough
I would play him in the midfield for the rest of the year to see how effective he can be

Before the year is out try Ramsay and Honey for extended periods as their contract is up
Play Stocker in the middle. See what he has got
Williamson has been disappointing this year but I would like to see him up forward
Docherty is a huge concern for me. Has had it tough but is the shadow of the player he once was.
Relieve him of the captain duties.
Make Weitering captain

Let’s hope Carroll Durdin Kemp come on in 2022
We are saddled with Martin McGovern Williams Saad on long term deals
They need to get better otherwise drop them
So sad to see the club not progressing but the club needs to make bold drastic change

The recruiting last year and the ethos around it has failed.
Let’s hope Curnow makes a full recovery. He would certainly add to the team.
The AFL train continues to chug along. The club needs to acknowledge that things haven’t worked
Sacking the coach as has been proven at this club over 20 doesn’t solve the problem


Agree with most of that but I try trading Docherty and keeping Cripps.

If McKay chooses to leave you have to get maximum return and not let him go to North/Hawthorn/Collingwood via PSD. Like it or not that’s a threat and until he signs you have to plan for it


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:13 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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I agree with most of what you say Keogh, but I still rate Silvagni though, reckon he's a keeper. Was pretty good yesterday I thought.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:17 am 
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Harry Vallence
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Radical changes not required - keep all our AFL standard players we need them.

We are getting ripped apart in the midfield and unable to stop supply. Need one elite two way player, he may be 30 years old but need to set standards in the middle. Cripps gave up battling Yeo, Redden and Sheed on his own he was getting mauled. We have all positions covered with a bit of depth but that midfield is a huge problem and has been for awhile. Need eilte players through there, the only FA worth a look and add to the midfield is Matt Crouch. Need to stop the bleeding in the middle and must be first priority.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:02 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 2:10 pm
Posts: 1582
Walsh wrote:
Radical changes not required - keep all our AFL standard players we need them.

We are getting ripped apart in the midfield and unable to stop supply. Need one elite two way player, he may be 30 years old but need to set standards in the middle. Cripps gave up battling Yeo, Redden and Sheed on his own he was getting mauled. We have all positions covered with a bit of depth but that midfield is a huge problem and has been for awhile. Need eilte players through there, the only FA worth a look and add to the midfield is Matt Crouch. Need to stop the bleeding in the middle and must be first priority.


We should be open to trading in a position we have an excess which is why I think Docherty is expendable. He’s a good to very good player who’d be A grade again in the right side but we’re not it.

He’ll get you that additional pick that opens the possibility of getting the other A grade player. I can’t think of anyone else that we could use for the same outcome


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:14 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:58 pm
Posts: 1724
bondiblue wrote:
Scotty12000 wrote:
You can’t tell me Clarkson or Fagan or even Lyon wouldn’t have this list humming

In addition, you can’t tell me some decent assistant line coaches and a Chocko Williams or similar hardnut overseeing the whip cracking wouldn’t develop a no BS hard edge to this list

The talent is there, they’re just trotting around coz their senior coach is just trotting around, with his assistants trotting around behind him


THIS

but please not Clarkson


Like I'm sure everyone here, I share your hatred for Clarkson.
Having said that he is a quality coach and I'd be prepared to (temporarily) put my hatred for him aside if he brought us success.


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