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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 6:17 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 1712
Carlton clearly thought they were on the cusp of being a contender as they went and got Saad and Williams.

Well the ladder says we are among the worst sides in the competition.

We have two captains neither of which would be in the top 50 players in the AFL.

We are gifting games to an ex captain who quite frankly doesn't deserve to play on form.

We are still relying on an old stager Betts to kick our goals.

Does any of this sound familiar?

It's hard to see this team winning a flag let alone scraping into the 8.

So where to from now?
We have misread the climate. Do we continue along this pointless direction? I mean surely we must have a broader strategy. Surely it can't be that we think we are a contender or near being one.

I say this in the belief I think the list is actually not good enough. That the club overrated the list.

Aside from Walsh, where are the young midfielders that are emerging?

There's no guarantee Charlie will make a truly successful comeback. Marchbank seems injury cursed. McGovern has been a big bust.

If I'm being honest I don't see the makings of a premiership list. Maybe it's time to start again. To continue to fool ourselves otherwise could just delay the next premiership.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 6:23 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Nah I dont think so.

The players you want in rebuild are sitting on injury list.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 6:26 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Walsh wrote:
Nah I dont think so.

The players you want in rebuild are sitting on injury list.


Who are you banking on from the Injury list to turn this club from circa bottom 4 to premiership contender?

We have the talent on the park. We are miles off getting the best out of them


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 6:31 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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jake_h03 wrote:
Walsh wrote:
Nah I dont think so.

The players you want in rebuild are sitting on injury list.


Who are you banking on from the Injury list to turn this club from circa bottom 4 to premiership contender?

We have the talent on the park. We are miles off getting the best out of them


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We dont have the team culture Eagles do.

In terms of talent we had no key forwards today. We were clearly out muscled and out skilled in the middle and couldnt win the clearances. Thats about it in nutshell... Cripps after four years of screaming from rooftops still needs help and club hasnt found it yet.. heres hoping we get it this off season


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 6:47 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 2:10 pm
Posts: 1591
I’d keep Walsh, Weitering, H, TDK and oddly enough Martin (I think he’s probably the only forward other than H that can win a game)

Everyone else I’m open to offers.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 6:51 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 1712
People say we are 'close'.

I am not sure I agree. I think this is as good as we can be. We are terribly average. Actually below average. One level above the worst teams.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 6:51 pm 
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Bruce Comben

Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:40 am
Posts: 43
Location: Carlton
Paddycripps wrote:
Carlton clearly thought they were on the cusp of being a contender as they went and got Saad and Williams.

Well the ladder says we are among the worst sides in the competition.

We have two captains neither of which would be in the top 50 players in the AFL.

We are gifting games to an ex captain who quite frankly doesn't deserve to play on form.

We are still relying on an old stager Betts to kick our goals.

Does any of this sound familiar?

It's hard to see this team winning a flag let alone scraping into the 8.

So where to from now?
We have misread the climate. Do we continue along this pointless direction? I mean surely we must have a broader strategy. Surely it can't be that we think we are a contender or near being one.

I say this in the belief I think the list is actually not good enough. That the club overrated the list.

Aside from Walsh, where are the young midfielders that are emerging?

There's no guarantee Charlie will make a truly successful comeback. Marchbank seems injury cursed. McGovern has been a big bust.

If I'm being honest I don't see the makings of a premiership list. Maybe it's time to start again. To continue to fool ourselves otherwise could just delay the next premiership.


No. It definitely needs adding/improving but rebuild path is just rubbish. Starting again would be the dumbest thing we've done and we've done some @#$%&! dumb things in the last 20 years.


We have enough talent on the list to be way better than 4-8. We had enough talent on the ground today to actually win but for some reason the intensity seemed to be at all time lows. Is that belief? System? Coaching? I have no @#$%&! clue but it's not talent


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 6:54 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:38 pm
Posts: 6305
If we play our cards right I think we can probably end 16 th
Match against Collingwood may determine who gets 16 th
What an absolute train wreck of a season


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 6:56 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Paddycripps wrote:
People say we are 'close'.

I am not sure I agree. I think this is as good as we can be. We are terribly average. Actually below average. One level above the worst teams.


We need our best players training and playing together every week like Melbourne and Bulldogs and Richmond before them.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 7:06 pm 
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Ken Hands

Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:31 pm
Posts: 474
I don’t even know where to start with this club. We’ve pulled every lever over the last 20 years and nothing ever works. New coaches. New players. New management.
We have never been able to put together a hard nosed side that plays uncompromising footy every week. That is a pre requisite for success - it always has and it always will be. The closest we got was under Ratten and Judd but it didn’t last long.
We can bring in another high pick but unless they walk into a club that demands success they will not help much. We can bring in a new coach but if the players don’t want it enough when they step over the white line it won’t help much.
Yes let’s remove the coaches and hope for a better outcome but I fear we’ll be back here in 2 years xalling for their head. Sick of the constant failure. This club has no soul.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 7:08 pm 
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Robert Walls
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Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 3:27 pm
Posts: 3564
Location: Conservative Brisbane :O(
A couple of posters have already said this We have tried to trade in a ruck and been absolute schizen at it since harry madden. Natinui had an absolute party today. As do all other rucks

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 7:10 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:03 pm
Posts: 1382
Location: Brisbane, QLD
You can’t tell me Clarkson or Fagan or even Lyon wouldn’t have this list humming

In addition, you can’t tell me some decent assistant line coaches and a Chocko Williams or similar hardnut overseeing the whip cracking wouldn’t develop a no BS hard edge to this list

The talent is there, they’re just trotting around coz their senior coach is just trotting around, with his assistants trotting around behind him


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 7:14 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Location: Melbourne
I’ve been reluctantly giving Teague the benefit but I’m still where I was at Roubd 2. I’m not seeing us improve in ANY area.

I hate to say it, but Ross Lyon is what we need.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 7:21 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 1712
Scotty12000 wrote:
You can’t tell me Clarkson or Fagan or even Lyon wouldn’t have this list humming

In addition, you can’t tell me some decent assistant line coaches and a Chocko Williams or similar hardnut overseeing the whip cracking wouldn’t develop a no BS hard edge to this list

The talent is there, they’re just trotting around coz their senior coach is just trotting around, with his assistants trotting around behind him


Cottrell
Murphy
Jones
Newnes
Newman
Dow
Setterfield

You think Docherty is a topline talent?
Cripps?

Really........


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 7:23 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:17 pm
Posts: 1499
Scotty12000 wrote:
You can’t tell me Clarkson or Fagan or even Lyon wouldn’t have this list humming

In addition, you can’t tell me some decent assistant line coaches and a Chocko Williams or similar hardnut overseeing the whip cracking wouldn’t develop a no BS hard edge to this list

The talent is there, they’re just trotting around coz their senior coach is just trotting around, with his assistants trotting around behind him


We continually overrate our list. There is some talent but we lack depth in our 22. Our bottom tier players are rubbish.

I said this earlier this year but we need a mini rebuild. Not a total rebuild.

Which means that our ambitions are delayed by another 2 - 3 years.

The risk now is that we could lose players that we don’t want to lose. The key is to retain the quality core and trade out players with some value eg SPS, Fisher etc.

Otherwise, it’s like banging your head against a brick wall.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 8:21 pm 
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Horrie Clover

Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:05 pm
Posts: 313
Anybody who think we have the talent now is delusional, yes we have some solid building blocks but we have too many meh players.

We are not going anywhere with the current list.

Cut the spuds and go back the draft.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 8:37 pm 
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Wayne Johnston
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:32 am
Posts: 8818
:lol: we never learn


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 8:38 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
Posts: 16753
Location: North of the border
We as a club need to get out of the bottom 6 and stay out for 3 to 4 years.
Making the 8 and playing finals is fantasy land stuff.
Rebuilding doesnt work as it creates a culture of winning doesn't matter.
No more chasing big names just work with what you have and learn to win.
This go to the draft get the best then top up is just bullshit.
We have had 5 number 1 draft picks umpteen first round picks.

You don't draft winning teams you draft individuals .
You need to build a winning team by doing the hard yards and accepting your situation and work hard to get out of it.
21 22 23 stay out of bottom 6
24 25 stay out of bottom 8
26 27 possibly play finals.

That should be the aim.
Achieve it and then we might get some where.

We have dumb stupid players who are not going to teach young players as they don't know themselves.

Do the grind and learn





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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 8:40 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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No going to the draft - we have been getting outmuscled and outskilled in the midfield for five years today was a good example not to go to the draft.

Sure Wlashy gets a lot of touches due to his running power but he also gets mauled in the mddle.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 8:44 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
Posts: 2943
This a coaching issue, not a personnel issue. PERIOD

Quality coaches drive the standards, set the tone for success, build culture, establish non-negotiables, adhere to applying consequences fairly, reward those who demonstrate buy-in through their performances, devise a gameplan that is effective, sustainable but also can be tweaked to suit scenarios A, B, C, D etc. (system-they call it)

We do not need a rebuild. Of course we have gaps but every team will identify gaps in their list

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