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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:09 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:38 pm
Posts: 7640
Only elite player in defence is Weitering
Jones and Saad good but not elite
Williams certainly nowhere near elite either this year
Stocker parks Plowman all not elite

Forward line H maybe elite but jury still out -the rest nowhere near elite Eddie was 4 years ago but that’s long time ago

Agree midfield doesn’t defend


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:11 pm 
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We have showed if it wasnt for backline and forward line we wouldnt be in games this year with a shambolic midfield. Top end - they just need an elite set of midfielders to compliment them.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:15 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
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frank dardew wrote:
Not sure our backline is elite either


The backline has great talent but poor system. Our forward line is one dimensional. The strategy we play of stretching the ground and leaving our forwards at home exposes us defensively. I admire Teague's theory of getting the ball quickly inside 50 but we are too exposed on the turnover with the current structure.
We need to compress the ground more when the opposition control the ball. We don't get numbers back to assist our defenders and we don't create the option to outnumber coming back.
I asked this earlier this year, when did you last see us get a goal out the back by compressing the ground? Very rarely. We have 1 mode of play which is so easy to counter.

It also wastes our acquisition of Saad and Williams. I was super exited by getting them because it provides us with another mode of play. Push numbers back, create congestion for the opposition to work through and then come back on the turnover with fast hands, agility and space to work in to. Yet we stay with one mode of play. The irony is the team that we got Saad from, play with strategies that we should be using. Unfortunately Teague appears to be either too stubborn or inept.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:17 pm 
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Craig Bradley

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Our backline and forward line are better than our midfield sure no one disputes that

But at 4-12 isn’t it more about the coaches game plan his inability to get the team to defend like most of the other teams in the comp and his inability to develop players and get a team to play more than 3 quarters in a game

We can blame Barker all we like but who is ultimately responsible for team performance the coach how has the coach been innovative to take into account that our midfield isn’t terribly strong


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:22 pm 
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frank dardew wrote:
Our backline and forward line are better than our midfield sure no one disputes that

But at 4-12 isn’t it more about the coaches game plan his inability to get the team to defend like most of the other teams in the comp and his inability to develop players and get a team to play more than 3 quarters in a game

We can blame Barker all we like but who is ultimately responsible for team performance the coach how has the coach been innovative to take into account that our midfield isn’t terribly strong


I dont know where the hate for Barker has come from tbh - because it certainly wasn't me.

Our midfield is a horrible mess and unless list management gets this fixed this conversation will be going forever and cbf tbh.

If we want top eight then we need an engine room and need to get it done this year. Cripps , Walsh + one mid + one wing


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:28 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Posts: 10059
Walsh wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Walsh wrote:
We can't compete against top eight midfield luckily our forward line and backline is as close to elite as you can get.


Our forward line isn't closer to elite.


Yes it is. Other than forward tackling pressure everything else is top notch.


:eek: are you kidding me?

Our midfield refuse to defend. If it weren’t for Walsh running both ways, we would be in some serious sh1t moving forward. Ed tags but doesn’t run hard to help our defence. Cripps and Setters refuse to chase or pick up their immediate opponents, let alone run back to support.
Our backline has no small lock down defender, other than Plowman and he can struggle against small agile, quick forwards. Our defends keep turning the ball over on counter attacks. We are deep if anything happens to Weitering right now.
Our forward line is too one dimensional and reliant on Harry. The kick it long to the hot spot has become comical. We don’t have any room to lead into and we refuse to kick to the occasional leading forward and if we do, we normally favour the opposition. I will also add, apart from a couple of 35 years olds, we don’t have anyone that seems to be able to cause some havoc via the ground ball. Obsessed having defensive forwards everywhere with very little ground scoring power.
I won’t even bother with our midfield, clearance and centre bounce setups and structures. We are truly the worst coached midfield group or are have the dummest midfielders ever. How many times can we fight for the same ball or contest the inside without any outside run?
Should I go on to our transition coach between midfield and forward line? We have very little run and carry and love the boundary.....still refuse to use the corridor. Speaking of using the corridor, do we even defend it?
How about our general ruck work? I thought when Pitto started he had some sort of idea, yet he has gone backwards in a rate of knots.
I’ve been highlighting that we need more skilled players through the middle of the ground, yet we try turning anyone with any class into a small shutdown back or small defensive forward. We refuse to bring in players with skill and play them through the midfield or at least on the wings for some run.

Yep - Top notch!!!!


Last edited by SurreyBlue on Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:35 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Walsh wrote:
If we want top eight then we need an engine room and need to get it done this year. Cripps , Walsh + one mid + one wing


Walsh is a midfielder not a wingman. Cripps needs to start playing hard edge defensive footy.
We need to rotate run and carry like SPS, Williams, Dow, Martin, Fisher, Cuningham, Stocker through the midfield. Cripps should be the only inside mid with maybe a Setters or Kennedy as rotation. We all know what our coach thinks of some of these guys though, so good luck getting run and class execution in there.

Ps. Not having a go at you personally Walsh


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:30 pm 
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Bert Deacon

Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:51 pm
Posts: 546
need to add some pieces and trade certain players why they have value .


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:55 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 4435
It is time to rebuild the leadership group, the coaching panel, and probably a host of other football roles and the board.

I find it hilarious the board tend to get off scott free. They, along with the CEO and Head of Football are the ones who ultimately tick off on all major decisions. What coach to appoint. What highly paid and highly unfit big name recruits to lure over.

Boards sack coaches and call for reviews to hide the fact they ultimately are to blame.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 12:43 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Posts: 2450
SurreyBlue wrote:
Walsh wrote:
If we want top eight then we need an engine room and need to get it done this year. Cripps , Walsh + one mid + one wing


Walsh is a midfielder not a wingman. Cripps needs to start playing hard edge defensive footy.
We need to rotate run and carry like SPS, Williams, Dow, Martin, Fisher, Cuningham, Stocker through the midfield. Cripps should be the only inside mid with maybe a Setters or Kennedy as rotation. We all know what our coach thinks of some of these guys though, so good luck getting run and class execution in there.

Ps. Not having a go at you personally Walsh



I think he is excellent at both and if you want to rotate and run SPS, Williams, Dow, Martin, Fisher through the midfield as well as Cripps and Kennedy then Walsh will need to play wing, which personally I do not have an issue with.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2021 12:13 pm 
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John James

Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:59 pm
Posts: 671
Paddycripps wrote:
Scotty12000 wrote:
You can’t tell me Clarkson or Fagan or even Lyon wouldn’t have this list humming

In addition, you can’t tell me some decent assistant line coaches and a Chocko Williams or similar hardnut overseeing the whip cracking wouldn’t develop a no BS hard edge to this list

The talent is there, they’re just trotting around coz their senior coach is just trotting around, with his assistants trotting around behind him


Cottrell
Murphy
Jones
Newnes
Newman
Dow
Setterfield

You think Docherty is a topline talent?
Cripps?

Really........


Is @Paddycripps dissing the player Cripps?!!

Oh my, the negativity in this forum.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2021 12:34 pm 
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John James

Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:59 pm
Posts: 671
17th Premiership wrote:
I think our culture is the biggest hurdle we need to overcome.
[…]
Like most things in life, talent is great until everyone around you starts working harder. Then talent is no longer enough.
We need to work harder on and off the field. Scrap that, not harder. Hardest.

We need to be so well prepared that we don't hesitate on the field, either through uncertainty, or stamina, or strength. Each and every player needs to make sure they are prepared for every scenario, physically and mentally. And also prepared for the scenarios we don't think of. (i.e. What principles do we play by? And why?)

And on top of weeding out the players who don't have the skills or the work ethic, we also need to get rid of dumb players - we made a lot of simply dumb decisions yesterday.
And sub-standard assistant coaches.

Keep Teague; change the assistants. Review this time again next year and if significant progress is not evident, then change the coach.


Agree with almost all of this especially work rate and player fitness (some only) and skills improvement is a big issue (still).

But “we work the hardest” is what a friend of mine with Greek parents used to say was a trap of peasant thinking. He watched his parents work themselves to exhaustion day in day out all their working lives. The idea was that if they did just a bit more than other working class people (many with the same mindset) they have an edge. They’d outcompete. (Meanwhile the neoliberal game was rigged against them from the start but that’s another forum, not blue-blooded TC!).

Thinking you can outwork others when they have the same human body and time allotted per day, week, season is admirable but it’s not particularly wise.

We need to build a culture of learning and application at Carlton. Excellence in sport doesn’t just happen in the gym, unless you’re a weightlifter I guess and even then it’s still mindset that lifts the record breaking weight (or PB) not pure bone and muscle. And I agree about poor decision making, I’m not sure if it’s a lack of “footy IQ” for some players or managing mental stress on field or panic/emotional state. When something looks “dumb”, often “dumb” is a cypher for more significant issues going on under the surface than lack of IQ.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 9:34 pm 
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formerly BlueRob
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Posts: 3050
Stocker is Fraser Brown like. A real hard nut and would like to see him spend time in the middle.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:16 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 5959
It’s time for another rebuild
Tell me sugar coaters
How can it be any different after today


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:19 pm 
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Banned

Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:55 pm
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keogh wrote:
It’s time for another rebuild
Tell me sugar coaters
How can it be any different after today


We are getting rebuilt next week... H, Charlie and Levi should be available.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:22 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Its the midfield for sure so i agree with Walsh.But i have been saying that for a long time well before Walsh arrived on the scene.Wouldn't have to be a rocket scientist to see that............unfortunetaly your mate Teague Walshy aint gonna be the man to take us forward.Rightly or wrongly he's gone.I think it will be a good decision to look elsewhere.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:25 pm 
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Mickstar wrote:
Its the midfield for sure so i agree with Walsh.But i have been saying that for a long time well before Walsh arrived on the scene.Wouldn't have to be a rocket scientist to see that............unfortunetaly your mate Teague Walshy aint gonna be the man to take us forward.Rightly or wrongly he's gone.I think it will be a good decision to look elsewhere.


Teague is whats best for the club not me.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:27 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 5959
Walsh wrote:
Mickstar wrote:
Its the midfield for sure so i agree with Walsh.But i have been saying that for a long time well before Walsh arrived on the scene.Wouldn't have to be a rocket scientist to see that............unfortunetaly your mate Teague Walshy aint gonna be the man to take us forward.Rightly or wrongly he's gone.I think it will be a good decision to look elsewhere.


Teague is whats best for the club not me.

Walshy
I don’t want Teague gone but he must make some selection changes this week regardless of the twos
SPS Murphy
Can’t be given games


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:29 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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keogh wrote:
It’s time for another rebuild
Tell me sugar coaters
How can it be any different after today

Mods could you please consider baning Posters who don't use question marks? :hitcomputer:

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:30 pm 
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keogh wrote:
Walsh wrote:
Mickstar wrote:
Its the midfield for sure so i agree with Walsh.But i have been saying that for a long time well before Walsh arrived on the scene.Wouldn't have to be a rocket scientist to see that............unfortunetaly your mate Teague Walshy aint gonna be the man to take us forward.Rightly or wrongly he's gone.I think it will be a good decision to look elsewhere.


Teague is whats best for the club not me.

Walshy
I don’t want Teague gone but he must make some selection changes this week regardless of the twos
SPS Murphy
Can’t be given games


theres about seven players that played today that shouldnt have played. Played three rookies and they are getting plenty of games - some rebuild when we need to play rookies for half a season.

They would be honest contributors in VFL and nothing more.


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