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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 6:13 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 8166
Location: Australia
CK95 wrote:
muzza wrote:
Wojee wrote:
Can you really be 6 years in if the coach hasn't been in charge for 6 years yet?

Ahh, if a tree falls in the woods and no one is around does it make a sound?


Not sure where I am going this but it sounded cryptic.



if a carlton player falls in the woods and no one is around, what injuries would they sustain?


Not sure of the injuries but they’re sure to be out for 1-2 weeks….


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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 8:01 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Location: Bondi Beach
keogh wrote:
At the moment there are 181 players who can’t play because there injured. That’s an average of 10 per team.
Carlton have 10 players who can’t play because their injured
I would say with a fair degree of confidence that most clubs have guys who go out onto the field of battle with a niggle or two
Let’s have a look whose injured
McGovern done stuff all ... doesn't imply he isnt injured and not our best 22
Murphy cooked anyway ... he's been injured for 2 weeks.
Philip Played a couple of games ... he's been injured all year, and you like him
Kemp not played at all .. because he's injured and he's not in our best 22
Martin so overrated soft as warm butter had a couple of cameo quarters put in the midfield next to useless ... your opinion. He is in our best 22
Marchbank another overrated player excellent Mark poor decision maker body is made of cardboard hasn’t played for 2 years. Rubbish, you haven't got a clue about him and our best 22
McDonald luck to be on an AFL list ... WTF..he's a peripheral player who isnt in our best 22 but is due to our injury list
SOJ very overrated by supporters shocking kick slow shocking? You are venomous with your language and as Ive pointed out, lean towards slanderous. He is heart and soul best 22
We miss Fisher and Charlie that’s it Yes. Best 22

DeKoning, Newman, did you forget them. How convenient of you. ....Players in and out or playing with injury Williams, Saad, Cripps...Cunners...Setterfield injured and not back in...point is injury has had a detrimental effect on a list you already consider thin. Injury applies to every team, some injuries like ours hurt more, and that has all to do with luck. Its commonly quoted every preseason...the Top team will have luck with injury, and Lions have had a lot of luck since their rebuild

Look at Brisbane
One year ahead of us and they have eight guys out Bullshit against us in round 6 they had Raynor and Berry missing. That's it.

We had Charlie DeKoning Marchbank Newman Martin Fisher, and also injury to depth players Parks, McDonald, and Cripps, Doc, Saad and williams played injured. Get real with your comparisons.
You don't think we would have beaten them with those above playing and they have Raynor and Berry????

...we lost by less than 3 kicks. Our young reserves players gave them 7 goals. Do you think we would have won with their best vs our best??? Answer that. 3 goals to Charlie Martin and Fish and we win. Stop 3 goals with Marchbank Newman or even McDonald and we win by 6 goals...and we had Pitto getting slaughtered by Oscar.

You don't see trees for wood. You will eat your words one day. Admit you are extremely bias.


One is Neale their best mid one is Berry who is their third or fourth best mid
Raymor is overrated but can be dangerous says who? whatever happened to IMO?
That’s like saying we have Walsh Ed Curnow and Eddie out of our team Their 2 are better than our 3 and you dont rate Raynor :lol:
Where do you reckon we would be with that scenario. I dont get your argument. It is totally askew and bias.
North would beat us You are seriously bias against carlton just to prove the point...I thought it was the Board last week
Good lists have depth Ours is young and new from being totally stripped back.

Brisbane have recruited better than us You said they are 1 year ahead despite the fact its 3, so why not wait say 2 years time. I actually hope they or Doggies win this year.

It comes down to List Management


You're making up stories now keogh.

I hardly agree with any of the assumptions you make.

Its all done to suit a specific angle you want to create.

We are different to every other team, hence our injury list.

The only thing I think we stuffed up is SOS cut the list far too deep. Stripped it back.
Changed over 60 players. No other team in history has done that.

So, against that backdrop, when you make up stories like we are 1 year behind Lions, may I remind you Doc was the part of the exodus from Lions in 2013, along with their coach Voss.

Weitering Charlie Harry Jack Cuningham all started in 2016. I can make an argument that we have done better than Lions in that of that lot we have 2 players pushing for AA, and 1 player Charlie...should.

You don't rate players the same as I do. Doesn't make either of us right.

When we talk about the impact of injury we are talking about this year keogh...2021, and even that's too earlly to write off young players. Its about Carlton's best 22 we are talking about, circa 2021, and of the 11 injured (usually every week till this week) 7 were of our best 22 were missing.

After that consideration you can talk about List Management albeit a bit early, but you can see gaps now we have all these injuries. I dare say we would have beaten Lions with our injured in and they are 3 years ahead of us with their rebuild, and they had players they didn't sell off All their best players for picks other than from from 2017 with Rockliff and Patful and last year Sasche and Aish

Look at the players Lions had in 2016 and built a team around them: Zorko, ROBINSON, Rich Harris Green McStay Mathison Hipwood and a few more who have pushed to reserves

Its not List management, but List management is part of the problem.

I say it is fixable with injured players returning from injury

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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 8:12 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
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frank dardew wrote:
3-6 after 9 rounds suggests that things aren’t going well

A team with Williams Saad Cripps Walsh Weitering and H should be doing better than that in my view


I do think injuries and long term ones have made us vulnerable for the most part Fisher Martin Curnow JSOS McGovern TDK Curnow Marchbank Newman have hardly or not played
Even Oscar McDonald going down as well as injuries to Kemp and Carroll haven’t helped
A fair bit of talent there on the sidelines

However no excuse for every week not playing 4 quarters and being scored against heavily during phases of games

Very disappointed with the development of young players Dow Setterfield OBrien SPS Williamson Stocker just to name a few
So understand some positivity I think Weitering Walsh H all been tremendous and I think Saad has been generally good and Eddie Curnow docherty Fogarty Cottrell Cunningham Jones Plowman serviceable but not consistent
Got little or nothing out of Murphy Williamson Casboult Pitto Cripps (now we know why)Williams
Good that we are getting games into Parks Owies Cottrell Fogarty and Stocker -each have made blues but have some potential


Agree
We did not lose to Coll and WB because of injuries...
We did not miss out on the 8 last year because of injuries...

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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 8:14 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
Posts: 3448
CK95 wrote:
muzza wrote:
Wojee wrote:
Can you really be 6 years in if the coach hasn't been in charge for 6 years yet?

Ahh, if a tree falls in the woods and no one is around does it make a sound?


Not sure where I am going this but it sounded cryptic.



if a carlton player falls in the woods and no one is around, what injuries would they sustain?


if a carlton player falls for a woods player and no one is around...NTTAWWT

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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 7:25 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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And if Tony Woods falls in the forest and no one is around what happens?

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Congratulations CK95


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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 9:15 am 
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Rod Ashman
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CK95 wrote:
muzza wrote:
Wojee wrote:
Can you really be 6 years in if the coach hasn't been in charge for 6 years yet?

Ahh, if a tree falls in the woods and no one is around does it make a sound?


Not sure where I am going this but it sounded cryptic.



if a carlton player falls in the woods and no one is around, what injuries would they sustain?

Dunno but it would be listed as syndesmosis 1-2 weeks....even if it was a wrist injury


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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 9:55 am 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 8166
Location: Australia
muzza wrote:
CK95 wrote:
muzza wrote:
Wojee wrote:
Can you really be 6 years in if the coach hasn't been in charge for 6 years yet?

Ahh, if a tree falls in the woods and no one is around does it make a sound?


Not sure where I am going this but it sounded cryptic.



if a carlton player falls in the woods and no one is around, what injuries would they sustain?

Dunno but it would be listed as syndesmosis 1-2 weeks....even if it was a wrist injury


Stealing my lines?


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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 10:06 am 
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Geoff Southby
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CK95 wrote:
muzza wrote:
Wojee wrote:
Can you really be 6 years in if the coach hasn't been in charge for 6 years yet?

Ahh, if a tree falls in the woods and no one is around does it make a sound?


Not sure where I am going this but it sounded cryptic.



if a carlton player falls in the woods and no one is around, what injuries would they sustain?


Would be 1-2 weeks regardless of injury. Although probably would be slipped in bear shit and hit by fallen tree.

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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 2:01 pm 
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Bob Chitty

Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:31 pm
Posts: 865
Interesting question posed in this thread
IMO it depends whether you think being somewhere around the 11th or 12th best team in the competition is bad or not
The evidence is starting to stack up that this is where we sit. Not a top 8 side at the moment and not a bottom 4 side either.
We rarely beat the good sides. Since beating the dogs in Rd 6 2020, we only have wins against North, Freo x2, GC x2, Sydney and Essendon*. Sydney were bottom 4 when we beat them last year but are much better this year. Hardly the resume of a finals side over a 20 game stretch
On the other hand, we also don’t get smashed by the good sides. We can match them for 3 quarters but ultimately cannot beat them. Bottom 4 teams usually get smashed by top 4 teams - we’re not that bad
The two bigger questions for me are:
(1) are we satisfied with being the 11th or 12th best side in the comp in year 6 of a rebuild? Personally the answer is a resounding no
(2) do we have the upside to become a top 8 side and, if so, what levers do we need to pull? Play more kids with an eye to the future? Remove the coach? Change assistants? Etc. IMO the mindset of this group (players and coaches) holds us back and our midfield must be improved drastically if we really want to elevate up the ladder


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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 2:02 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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sinbagger wrote:
muzza wrote:
CK95 wrote:
muzza wrote:
Wojee wrote:
Can you really be 6 years in if the coach hasn't been in charge for 6 years yet?

Ahh, if a tree falls in the woods and no one is around does it make a sound?


Not sure where I am going this but it sounded cryptic.



if a carlton player falls in the woods and no one is around, what injuries would they sustain?

Dunno but it would be listed as syndesmosis 1-2 weeks....even if it was a wrist injury


Stealing my lines?

Stayed up all night thinking about it and it came to me like an epiphany.....I'm quite astute as you can tell.


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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 5:30 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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The issue isn’t how bad we are, but how much better we should be by now.

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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 6:41 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:38 pm
Posts: 7640
If we go 3-6 things aren’t travelling well after 9 rounds with only 3 players Walsh Weitering and H improving output from last year
Recruits Saad ok Fogarty ok but dropping off and Williams underperforming

Underperforming this year include Pitto Casboult Williamson Setterfield Newnes gibbons Cripps Murphy SPS

About the same as last year Eddie Jones plowman cottrell docherty Cunningham


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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 8:07 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
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Location: Australia
I’m asking about how the team is today. I’m asking are we on the right trajectory. The key issue is whether we’ve peaked or if we are just in the midst of a steady improvement arc?


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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 1:23 pm 
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Craig Bradley

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Ok no worries my concern is that I don’t think we are playing better than last year with the addition of Saad Williams and Fogarty
We have 3 of the best young players in weiters Walsh and H yet are 3 —8 and after today most likely 3-9

Coaching development game plan selection and in particular midfield no better
Still leak goals regularly and have no idea of defence
We don’t turn up regularly in quarters what is fundamentally different from last year
At least this time last year we had beaten a good side ie Geelong haven’t done that yet


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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 3:08 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:14 pm
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Location: Melbourne
frank dardew wrote:
Ok no worries my concern is that I don’t think we are playing better than last year with the addition of Saad Williams and Fogarty
We have 3 of the best young players in weiters Walsh and H yet are 3 —8 and after today most likely 3-9

Coaching development game plan selection and in particular midfield no better
Still leak goals regularly and have no idea of defence
We don’t turn up regularly in quarters what is fundamentally different from last year
At least this time last year we had beaten a good side ie Geelong haven’t done that yet


Our best footy last year was rounds 3-8, where we won 4 of 6, had a narrow loss to Port and only game where we’re disappointed in that patch was v St Kilda.

We only won 3 of our last 9 last year, and won 3 of 9 this year.

In saying that we need to stay the course, and be patient.

Evolution not revolution.


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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 5:58 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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yes

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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 6:02 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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I was feeling bullish midway through the third against WB, but we seem to have fallen off a cliff since then. Our lows are just far, far too low. We try hard but we don't know how to stop games getting away from us. We looked helpless when the Dogs came at us, and were never at the races against Melbourne even when the scoreboard looked not-so-bad.


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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 6:03 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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GreatEx wrote:
I was feeling bullish midway through the third against WB, but we seem to have fallen off a cliff since then. Our lows are just far, far too low. We try hard but we don't know how to stop games getting away from us. We looked helpless when the Dogs came at us, and were never at the races against Melbourne even when the scoreboard looked not-so-bad.
That's the thing, even if the scoreboard doesn't look bad, we're just not in it.


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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 6:05 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Need to implement some basic team rules.
Like nominate an opposition defender each week no one is allowed to kick it to.

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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 6:06 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Got to 10 points up & they just very quickly banged on 3 goals. Felt soooo normal

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