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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2021 12:54 am 
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Harry Vallence
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Certainly would have taken Adam Cerra before Paddy Dow just incredible lack of due diligence , it’s not easy and there have been many similare blunders but hard to swallow.
To cap it off LOB at pick 10 too, very poor recruiting,.

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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2021 11:15 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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Our young mids have not come on and as a result we have bugger all midfield depth.
Our small forwards are very average.
We need another young tall defender.

And we have a coach who doesn't have much respect for defence.

Our coach's win and loss record is trending down every year.

Yeah, it is not good.


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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2021 12:34 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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We've got a pretty winnable month. Hawfs, both Sydney teams and wc in Melbourne. Let's see then

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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2021 11:16 am 
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Craig Bradley

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bmaurizio wrote:
Certainly would have taken Adam Cerra before Paddy Dow just incredible lack of due diligence , it’s not easy and there have been many similar blunders but hard to swallow. To cap it off LOB at pick 10 too, very poor recruiting.


I would have taken LDU ahead of both. But yeah, LOB looks like the huge mistake. He'll be lucky to be on an AFL list in 2 years time. For all his skills and running power, just doesn't have the appetite to compete. Makes guys like Polec look like Jack Dyer.


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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2021 11:20 am 
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Bruce Doull
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More revisionist history.

Dow was considered the clear #3 at the time, hence us taking him there.

If we drafted Cerra we’d be having the exact same conversations about him right now.

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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2021 11:28 am 
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Geoff Southby

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Donstuie wrote:
More revisionist history.

Dow was considered the clear #3 at the time, hence us taking him there.

If we drafted Cerra we’d be having the exact same conversations about him right now.


This sounds like excusing the club for another dumb draft decision
Somewhere I’ve listed the players we missed with the recruitment of
Dow
O’Brien
Kennedy
SOS wouldn’t know a good midfielder in the making if he fell over one
He missed on plenty at GWS with all concession picks he had
He got the job because of his name
Other than Walsh who was obviously very good he recruited no good mids and thats principally why we are 3 and 6 6 and half years into a rebuild
Imagine if Walsh goes down


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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2021 1:12 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Heavs wrote:
We've got a pretty winnable month. Hawfs, both Sydney teams and wc in Melbourne. Let's see then

We will be 7-6 hopefully.

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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 6:19 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 6:28 pm 
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John Nicholls
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What would the ladder look like if we kicked more goals and points than the opposition each week?

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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 7:22 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

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jezzarules wrote:


https://twitter.com/sirswampthing/statu ... 7463121920


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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 7:51 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Get Sav!

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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2021 11:05 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

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If it was this Sime,e to turn things around at Melbourne why can’t we do it?

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/unl ... 57vcm.html


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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2021 7:00 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
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sinbagger wrote:
If it was this Sime,e to turn things around at Melbourne why can’t we do it?

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/unl ... 57vcm.html


Sound familiar?

Quote:
The leaders talked of selfishness. It was selfishness in varied forms. For some it was the selfishness of the player who wanted to get his 35 touches and was less worried how the team goes. Some players admitted they had been guilty of that.

There was also the idea that when things were desperate, when they needed leaders in games, players would try to pull on the cape and be Superman to save the day, playing outside the role they had to try and win the game off their own boot. It was understandable, admirable and counter-productive.


It shows that talent is important but attitude is critical. We've talked here recently about selflessness but how much do you really see in our team? I see players like Ed Curnow who will do anything required to make the team better. I also see other players who buy into the selflessness mindset by expecting others to be selfless to benefit them. But is it reciprocated?

We need everyone performing at their best and we need the coaches to also give them every opportunity. I watched a replay of the Hawthorn game again last night. (Yes, I have no life). In the last quarter Luke Breust cruised past the front of a boundary throw in and kicked an easy goal. As the defensive winger, Cottrell's role was to block the exit so that could never occur. Yet he was sucked into the stoppage, had no impact with his positioning and Breust cruised past him. Is it coaching or is it players taking responsibility?
IMHO, it's both. It's a basic structure that Cottrell should have no doubt about. Not only should he have had no doubt about what was required but the players around him should never have allowed it to happen.

Last night the Demons cut the Bulldogs off at the knees. Not by stopping Bontempelli but by stopping Libba.
Going into the Bulldogs game we recognised here that Libba was the threat. Bont received the media adulation for his game but he didn't create the outside ball that cut us up. From memory I posted that in the 3rd quarter, Libba attended 6 centre bounces and put the ball into the hands of his outside runners 5 times. Last night Goodwin put Harmes onto Libba and it disrupted the Bulldogs flow. Time was afforded to set up behind the ball and once again, selflessness bought maximum pressure.

That's where we need to be. Talent is important and IMHO, with a reasonably fit list, we have enough. Do we have the attitude and coaching aptitude? IMHO, the answers are definitely no to attitude and probably not to coaching. If it's there, bloody well show us.
I heard Jordan Lewis talking last night about Adem Yze. He said that Melbournes midfielders were previously well coached at winning the ball and the contested stuff. But until Yze joined, they were never coached on running patterns outside the stoppage and how they can impact offensively and assist defensively. He openly intimated that their previous midfield coaches (Matthews and McCartney) had only done half a job. Sound familiar?
Do you think our mids understand the requirements their role entails away from the stoppages?

These are the areas that seperate 2020 Melbourne to 2021. They're also the things that seperate us from them and Richmond of the past 5 years. Structure, understanding your role and most importantly, team first attitude.

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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2021 8:48 am 
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Geoff Southby
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Blue Vain wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
If it was this Sime,e to turn things around at Melbourne why can’t we do it?

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/unl ... 57vcm.html


Sound familiar?

Quote:
The leaders talked of selfishness. It was selfishness in varied forms. For some it was the selfishness of the player who wanted to get his 35 touches and was less worried how the team goes. Some players admitted they had been guilty of that.

There was also the idea that when things were desperate, when they needed leaders in games, players would try to pull on the cape and be Superman to save the day, playing outside the role they had to try and win the game off their own boot. It was understandable, admirable and counter-productive.


It shows that talent is important but attitude is critical. We've talked here recently about selflessness but how much do you really see in our team? I see players like Ed Curnow who will do anything required to make the team better. I also see other players who buy into the selflessness mindset by expecting others to be selfless to benefit them. But is it reciprocated?

We need everyone performing at their best and we need the coaches to also give them every opportunity. I watched a replay of the Hawthorn game again last night. (Yes, I have no life). In the last quarter Luke Breust cruised past the front of a boundary throw in and kicked an easy goal. As the defensive winger, Cottrell's role was to block the exit so that could never occur. Yet he was sucked into the stoppage, had no impact with his positioning and Breust cruised past him. Is it coaching or is it players taking responsibility?
IMHO, it's both. It's a basic structure that Cottrell should have no doubt about. Not only should he have had no doubt about what was required but the players around him should never have allowed it to happen.

Last night the Demons cut the Bulldogs off at the knees. Not by stopping Bontempelli but by stopping Libba.
Going into the Bulldogs game we recognised here that Libba was the threat. Bont received the media adulation for his game but he didn't create the outside ball that cut us up. From memory I posted that in the 3rd quarter, Libba attended 6 centre bounces and put the ball into the hands of his outside runners 5 times. Last night Goodwin put Harmes onto Libba and it disrupted the Bulldogs flow. Time was afforded to set up behind the ball and once again, selflessness bought maximum pressure.

That's where we need to be. Talent is important and IMHO, with a reasonably fit list, we have enough. Do we have the attitude and coaching aptitude? IMHO, the answers are definitely no to attitude and probably not to coaching. If it's there, bloody well show us.
I heard Jordan Lewis talking last night about Adem Yze. He said that Melbournes midfielders were previously well coached at winning the ball and the contested stuff. But until Yze joined, they were never coached on running patterns outside the stoppage and how they can impact offensively and assist defensively. He openly intimated that their previous midfield coaches (Matthews and McCartney) had only done half a job. Sound familiar?
Do you think our mids understand the requirements their role entails away from the stoppages?

These are the areas that seperate 2020 Melbourne to 2021. They're also the things that seperate us from them and Richmond of the past 5 years. Structure, understanding your role and most importantly, team first attitude.

:clap:
I Couldn't agree more about our midfield and their lack of structure, roles and defensive patterns.
Everyone keeps saying we need more defenders but I think that's just fixing the symptom not the cause, we need a better coached midfield to stop the ball more before it even gets there.
I also think we have the talent bar a couple more big bodies in the middle but we need better structure and defined roles across the ground and is the reason why some of our top kids have struggled to make an impact compared to the top teams with less talented players.
And the proof is we see it all the time, "good" players from top sides move to weaker teams and they all of a sudden don't have the same impact in games.


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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2021 11:38 am 
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John Nicholls
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Yep, brilliant post BV.

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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2021 12:41 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:32 am
Posts: 10059
Blue Vain wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
If it was this Sime,e to turn things around at Melbourne why can’t we do it?

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/unl ... 57vcm.html


Sound familiar?

Quote:
The leaders talked of selfishness. It was selfishness in varied forms. For some it was the selfishness of the player who wanted to get his 35 touches and was less worried how the team goes. Some players admitted they had been guilty of that.

There was also the idea that when things were desperate, when they needed leaders in games, players would try to pull on the cape and be Superman to save the day, playing outside the role they had to try and win the game off their own boot. It was understandable, admirable and counter-productive.


It shows that talent is important but attitude is critical. We've talked here recently about selflessness but how much do you really see in our team? I see players like Ed Curnow who will do anything required to make the team better. I also see other players who buy into the selflessness mindset by expecting others to be selfless to benefit them. But is it reciprocated?

We need everyone performing at their best and we need the coaches to also give them every opportunity. I watched a replay of the Hawthorn game again last night. (Yes, I have no life). In the last quarter Luke Breust cruised past the front of a boundary throw in and kicked an easy goal. As the defensive winger, Cottrell's role was to block the exit so that could never occur. Yet he was sucked into the stoppage, had no impact with his positioning and Breust cruised past him. Is it coaching or is it players taking responsibility?
IMHO, it's both. It's a basic structure that Cottrell should have no doubt about. Not only should he have had no doubt about what was required but the players around him should never have allowed it to happen.

Last night the Demons cut the Bulldogs off at the knees. Not by stopping Bontempelli but by stopping Libba.
Going into the Bulldogs game we recognised here that Libba was the threat. Bont received the media adulation for his game but he didn't create the outside ball that cut us up. From memory I posted that in the 3rd quarter, Libba attended 6 centre bounces and put the ball into the hands of his outside runners 5 times. Last night Goodwin put Harmes onto Libba and it disrupted the Bulldogs flow. Time was afforded to set up behind the ball and once again, selflessness bought maximum pressure.

That's where we need to be. Talent is important and IMHO, with a reasonably fit list, we have enough. Do we have the attitude and coaching aptitude? IMHO, the answers are definitely no to attitude and probably not to coaching. If it's there, bloody well show us.
I heard Jordan Lewis talking last night about Adem Yze. He said that Melbournes midfielders were previously well coached at winning the ball and the contested stuff. But until Yze joined, they were never coached on running patterns outside the stoppage and how they can impact offensively and assist defensively. He openly intimated that their previous midfield coaches (Matthews and McCartney) had only done half a job. Sound familiar?
Do you think our mids understand the requirements their role entails away from the stoppages?

These are the areas that seperate 2020 Melbourne to 2021. They're also the things that seperate us from them and Richmond of the past 5 years. Structure, understanding your role and most importantly, team first attitude.


Yep.
Some of us have been harping on about our coaching for a few years now.
The fact the club feels our line coaches are doing a good job is a serious concern. It’s that obvious.


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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2021 2:50 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22924
Location: Bondi Beach
Blue Vain wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
If it was this Sime,e to turn things around at Melbourne why can’t we do it?

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/unl ... 57vcm.html


Sound familiar?

Quote:
The leaders talked of selfishness. It was selfishness in varied forms. For some it was the selfishness of the player who wanted to get his 35 touches and was less worried how the team goes. Some players admitted they had been guilty of that.

There was also the idea that when things were desperate, when they needed leaders in games, players would try to pull on the cape and be Superman to save the day, playing outside the role they had to try and win the game off their own boot. It was understandable, admirable and counter-productive.


It shows that talent is important but attitude is critical. We've talked here recently about selflessness but how much do you really see in our team? I see players like Ed Curnow who will do anything required to make the team better. I also see other players who buy into the selflessness mindset by expecting others to be selfless to benefit them. But is it reciprocated?

We need everyone performing at their best and we need the coaches to also give them every opportunity. I watched a replay of the Hawthorn game again last night. (Yes, I have no life). In the last quarter Luke Breust cruised past the front of a boundary throw in and kicked an easy goal. As the defensive winger, Cottrell's role was to block the exit so that could never occur. Yet he was sucked into the stoppage, had no impact with his positioning and Breust cruised past him. Is it coaching or is it players taking responsibility?
IMHO, it's both. It's a basic structure that Cottrell should have no doubt about. Not only should he have had no doubt about what was required but the players around him should never have allowed it to happen.

Last night the Demons cut the Bulldogs off at the knees. Not by stopping Bontempelli but by stopping Libba.
Going into the Bulldogs game we recognised here that Libba was the threat. Bont received the media adulation for his game but he didn't create the outside ball that cut us up. From memory I posted that in the 3rd quarter, Libba attended 6 centre bounces and put the ball into the hands of his outside runners 5 times. Last night Goodwin put Harmes onto Libba and it disrupted the Bulldogs flow. Time was afforded to set up behind the ball and once again, selflessness bought maximum pressure.

That's where we need to be. Talent is important and IMHO, with a reasonably fit list, we have enough. Do we have the attitude and coaching aptitude? IMHO, the answers are definitely no to attitude and probably not to coaching. If it's there, bloody well show us.
I heard Jordan Lewis talking last night about Adem Yze. He said that Melbournes midfielders were previously well coached at winning the ball and the contested stuff. But until Yze joined, they were never coached on running patterns outside the stoppage and how they can impact offensively and assist defensively. He openly intimated that their previous midfield coaches (Matthews and McCartney) had only done half a job. Sound familiar?
Do you think our mids understand the requirements their role entails away from the stoppages?

These are the areas that seperate 2020 Melbourne to 2021. They're also the things that seperate us from them and Richmond of the past 5 years. Structure, understanding your role and most importantly, team first attitude.


Great post BV

You've been sayin it all year: we have the list and its selflessness all players need to adopt. No doubt we have carried a few selfish, conditional players this year, and a captain who puts on the cape, when he should be looking at those around him to lift with him.

Interesting the effect Yze had with the 2nd hald of the midfield requirement, running patterns.

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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2021 5:40 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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After round 11... let's talk draft picks...

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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2021 5:48 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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The talk will more be around coaches

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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2021 5:59 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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grrofunger wrote:
The talk will more be around coaches

Teague deserves at least one more year, and with some decent support staff.

Power should stay, and O'Keefe should get another year unless there is a clearly better replacement available. The rest are on the block.

First of all, it cannot be stressed enough that John Barker has to @#$%&! go. Our stoppage setups are absolute trash and have cost us many games (ever wonder why our hitouts never seem to go to our players, among other things?). But even before this when in charge of other areas, those areas have consistently gotten worse. Also, he's been there ten years now and it's safe to say that he's brought little to the table.

Amos was doing well for a while, but the defence has gone to complete shit the past couple of years, despite the addition of Saad and class of Weitering. I've said before that our shit defensive structures will cost Weitering an(other) AA. And then there's the red-time bullshit.....

That said, how much of this is exposed due to poor transitioning forward to back, which is the realm of Brett Stanton? Safe to say he'll be one to get the chop this year, and rightly so. Players do not run both ways, and are constantly caught out of position.

Cameron Bruce is borderline. We certainly look more dangerous and have been kicking more goals, but this seems to be in spite of our setups.

What's needed are people who are smart and innovative tactically, but above all they need to have experienced success and have some cauliflower in them.

(Also, for anyone interested, the name of our psychologist is Tarah Kavanaugh, who I'll immediately assume is terrible at her job :wink: )

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