TalkingCarlton :: View topic - Rd 8: Western Bulldogs v Carlton (Post match Discussion)

Jones has actually conceded goals in both of his last two games against Bruce and Hooker. He's also played some decent footy in both those games. It's been a few weeks since his balance of attack and defence has worked.

And yes, we played Docherty on a wing at stages on Sunday with the intention of his folding back to be a spare man. A lot of the time it worked (he got 31 touches)... but when it doesn't work it can hurt us. We do play a zone defence that relies on the midfield either winning the ball or forcing a quick kick to a waiting defender. When we lose the contest, defenders can get caught out between opposition players, unsure whether to stick to their man or move to the next player. This is why we coughed up so many goals early against Essendon** - both Jones and Weitering were occupying space rather than standing next to their man for long periods.

So, as always.... it comes down to the midfield.

Kennedy has failed as an inside mid
Where he has done best is as a third tall up forward

Setterfield came to Carlton with bigwraps
What was he pick 5 in theAFL draft.
Does his ACL so there are excuses
We gave up a pick in the low 20s( future second rounder) and Nathan Kreuger
Thank god Kreuger hasn’t delivered ( due to injury) otherwise another catastrophic trade

Here is my take on Setterfield
His only real position as a mid is inside. He is a plodder whose kicking lacks penetration
He has good vision in close but simply doesn’t get it enough
An inside mid who consistently gets it under 20 times is not good enough
He lacks strength in close

The big thing for me with Setterfield and Kennedy is they have been around a while
Cripps Curnow and Walsh can’t play well every week
These 2 don’t pick it up when they have to lift to pick up the slack
That’s why Kennedy was delisted and rookied and that’s why they are both in the magoos
They should be blitzing it in the VFL given their reputations

To me they are good VFL players who might play the occasional reasonable game at AFL level

Once again I say
Thanks SOS

bondiblue wrote:

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/carlton-blues/afl-news-2021-liam-jones-carlton-defensive-issues-video-garry-lyon-gerard-healy-on-the-couch/news-story/42d6224216ad186dfbaf8dbade898124

Quote:

Melbourne champion Lyon was particularly scathing of Jones’ effort.

“I think Liam Jones, one-on-one, does a wonderful job. But how long do you keep going to the well with someone that is in a situation where it‘s game-defining and … that is a staggering piece of a vision for a man who’s supposed to be the cornerstone of your defence,” Lyon told On The Couch. “He doesn’t turn his head. All he had to do was turn his head.
“I don’t want to make Liam Jones the scapegoat, but it can be fixed by doing what an Under 12 kid is taught to do. When the ball’s in dispute and it‘s a game on the line and he’s the full-back, you don’t wander aimlessly out to centre half-back with no awareness of what’s behind you.
“Carlton supporters are sitting at home going: ‘Why? Why? Why? How’s it happened?’ Well because you’ve got dumb instances like that. That’s why it happens.”

The word he uses is DUMB to describe Jones' decision to ignore the backline.

Someone on twitter responded to this with:

"For context (which doesn’t seem to matter at Fox) Carlton are 16 points down at the 26 min mark of the last quarter.

I daresay Jones is waiting for the potential switch kick if they win back possession to attack up the middle of the ground.

Carlton need 3 goals in 4 mins."

verbs wrote:

bondiblue wrote:

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/carlton-blues/afl-news-2021-liam-jones-carlton-defensive-issues-video-garry-lyon-gerard-healy-on-the-couch/news-story/42d6224216ad186dfbaf8dbade898124

Quote:

The word he uses is DUMB to describe Jones' decision to ignore the backline.

Might have been someone who posts here very occasionally

:wink:

Deepest midfield in the AFL v the shallowest. Surprised the margin was only 16 points actually

When we get in front we're like a nerd at a nightclub when a hot girl comes up & talks to him. We just can't believe it's happening to us & don't know what the hell to do...

Not that I know that bloke or anything :oops:

i wont shy away from our bad choke, but given the results of the doggies - aints game today, perhaps we did better than we all thought

Not sure it's a good idea to measure ourselves against St Kilda atm...

Hornet wrote:

Not sure it's a good idea to measure ourselves against St Kilda atm...

We’ve been doing it since 2000. They have been our benchmark team in rebuilds. :banghead:

Author:	bondiblue [ Tue May 11, 2021 12:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Rd 8: Western Bulldogs v Carlton (Post match Discussion)
bluechampion wrote: Jones has actually conceded goals in both of his last two games against Bruce and Hooker. He's also played some decent footy in both those games. It's been a few weeks since his balance of attack and defence has worked. And yes, we played Docherty on a wing at stages on Sunday with the intention of his folding back to be a spare man. A lot of the time it worked (he got 31 touches)... but when it doesn't work it can hurt us. We do play a zone defence that relies on the midfield either winning the ball or forcing a quick kick to a waiting defender. When we lose the contest, defenders can get caught out between opposition players, unsure whether to stick to their man or move to the next player. This is why we coughed up so many goals early against Essendon** - both Jones and Weitering were occupying space rather than standing next to their man for long periods. So, as always.... it comes down to the midfield. ...and a coach who plays Russian Roulette and just rolls the dice. Need bonafide defence whilst you don't have a dominant midfield group.

Author:	sinbagger [ Tue May 11, 2021 12:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Rd 8: Western Bulldogs v Carlton (Post match Discussion)
keogh wrote: Kennedy has failed as an inside mid Where he has done best is as a third tall up forward Setterfield came to Carlton with bigwraps What was he pick 5 in theAFL draft. Does his ACL so there are excuses We gave up a pick in the low 20s( future second rounder) and Nathan Kreuger Thank god Kreuger hasn’t delivered ( due to injury) otherwise another catastrophic trade Here is my take on Setterfield His only real position as a mid is inside. He is a plodder whose kicking lacks penetration He has good vision in close but simply doesn’t get it enough An inside mid who consistently gets it under 20 times is not good enough He lacks strength in close The big thing for me with Setterfield and Kennedy is they have been around a while Cripps Curnow and Walsh can’t play well every week These 2 don’t pick it up when they have to lift to pick up the slack That’s why Kennedy was delisted and rookied and that’s why they are both in the magoos They should be blitzing it in the VFL given their reputations To me they are good VFL players who might play the occasional reasonable game at AFL level Once again I say Thanks SOS Can’t argue with a lot you say about Setters, but his kicking in the vfl the last few weeks that I’ve seen has been long, penetration kicks from the centre where he’s linked up plays during transition.

Author:	AGRO [ Tue May 11, 2021 12:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Rd 8: Western Bulldogs v Carlton (Post match Discussion)
verbs wrote: bondiblue wrote: https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/carlton-blues/afl-news-2021-liam-jones-carlton-defensive-issues-video-garry-lyon-gerard-healy-on-the-couch/news-story/42d6224216ad186dfbaf8dbade898124 Quote: Melbourne champion Lyon was particularly scathing of Jones’ effort. “I think Liam Jones, one-on-one, does a wonderful job. But how long do you keep going to the well with someone that is in a situation where it‘s game-defining and … that is a staggering piece of a vision for a man who’s supposed to be the cornerstone of your defence,” Lyon told On The Couch. “He doesn’t turn his head. All he had to do was turn his head. “I don’t want to make Liam Jones the scapegoat, but it can be fixed by doing what an Under 12 kid is taught to do. When the ball’s in dispute and it‘s a game on the line and he’s the full-back, you don’t wander aimlessly out to centre half-back with no awareness of what’s behind you. “Carlton supporters are sitting at home going: ‘Why? Why? Why? How’s it happened?’ Well because you’ve got dumb instances like that. That’s why it happens.” The word he uses is DUMB to describe Jones' decision to ignore the backline. Someone on twitter responded to this with: "For context (which doesn’t seem to matter at Fox) Carlton are 16 points down at the 26 min mark of the last quarter. I daresay Jones is waiting for the potential switch kick if they win back possession to attack up the middle of the ground. Carlton need 3 goals in 4 mins." Might have been someone who posts here very occasionally

Author:	CK95 [ Tue May 11, 2021 1:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Rd 8: Western Bulldogs v Carlton (Post match Discussion)
Deepest midfield in the AFL v the shallowest. Surprised the margin was only 16 points actually

Author:	bondiblue [ Tue May 11, 2021 3:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Rd 8: Western Bulldogs v Carlton (Post match Discussion)
AGRO wrote: verbs wrote: bondiblue wrote: https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/carlton-blues/afl-news-2021-liam-jones-carlton-defensive-issues-video-garry-lyon-gerard-healy-on-the-couch/news-story/42d6224216ad186dfbaf8dbade898124 Quote: Melbourne champion Lyon was particularly scathing of Jones’ effort. “I think Liam Jones, one-on-one, does a wonderful job. But how long do you keep going to the well with someone that is in a situation where it‘s game-defining and … that is a staggering piece of a vision for a man who’s supposed to be the cornerstone of your defence,” Lyon told On The Couch. “He doesn’t turn his head. All he had to do was turn his head. “I don’t want to make Liam Jones the scapegoat, but it can be fixed by doing what an Under 12 kid is taught to do. When the ball’s in dispute and it‘s a game on the line and he’s the full-back, you don’t wander aimlessly out to centre half-back with no awareness of what’s behind you. “Carlton supporters are sitting at home going: ‘Why? Why? Why? How’s it happened?’ Well because you’ve got dumb instances like that. That’s why it happens.” The word he uses is DUMB to describe Jones' decision to ignore the backline. Someone on twitter responded to this with: "For context (which doesn’t seem to matter at Fox) Carlton are 16 points down at the 26 min mark of the last quarter. I daresay Jones is waiting for the potential switch kick if they win back possession to attack up the middle of the ground. Carlton need 3 goals in 4 mins." Might have been someone who posts here very occasionally oh yeah... that prick

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Rd 8: Western Bulldogs v Carlton (Post match Discussion) https://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=37199	Page 8 of 8

Author:	bondiblue [ Tue May 11, 2021 3:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Rd 8: Western Bulldogs v Carlton (Post match Discussion)
CK95 wrote: Deepest midfield in the AFL v the shallowest. Surprised the margin was only 16 points actually or, we are not that far off the pace, but need to strengthen our resolve and be switched on for more than 80 minutes.

Author:	CK95 [ Tue May 11, 2021 5:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Rd 8: Western Bulldogs v Carlton (Post match Discussion)
When we get in front we're like a nerd at a nightclub when a hot girl comes up & talks to him. We just can't believe it's happening to us & don't know what the hell to do... Not that I know that bloke or anything

Author:	bondiblue [ Tue May 11, 2021 5:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Rd 8: Western Bulldogs v Carlton (Post match Discussion)
CK95 wrote: When we get in front we're like a nerd at a nightclub when a hot girl comes up & talks to him. We just can't believe it's happening to us & don't know what the hell to do... Not that I know that bloke or anything There must be a lot of this. We havent learned to win, perhaps havent accepted we can win. Need a good sport psych daily and on game day between breaks.

Author:	Donstuie [ Tue May 11, 2021 6:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Rd 8: Western Bulldogs v Carlton (Post match Discussion)
CK95 wrote: When we get in front we're like a nerd at a nightclub when a hot girl comes up & talks to him. We just can't believe it's happening to us & don't know what the hell to do... Not that I know that bloke or anything Probably the best metaphor I've heard for this team. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhbhNLgwyE4

Author:	dadadadada [ Tue May 11, 2021 9:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Rd 8: Western Bulldogs v Carlton (Post match Discussion)
on sunday I watched the best and worst of Carlton

Author:	bender [ Sat May 22, 2021 11:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Rd 8: Western Bulldogs v Carlton (Post match Discussion)
i wont shy away from our bad choke, but given the results of the doggies - aints game today, perhaps we did better than we all thought

Author:	diesel95 [ Sun May 23, 2021 12:58 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Rd 8: Western Bulldogs v Carlton (Post match Discussion)
bender wrote: i wont shy away from our bad choke, but given the results of the doggies - aints game today, perhaps we did better than we all thought yes, we're definitely a better team than we were last year and the year before. Irrespective of who's in form, who isn't; who's out injured, who's playing injured, and who's match fit. Showed enough against Hawks in 3rd qtr to absorb the pressure even when mids getting pants and protect the lead to keep me emotionally invested. would have been gut wrenching to lose to young Hawks. last year we probably would have crumbled in 3rd and 4th. Imagine the negativity round here if two weeks ago we had have had St Kilda's score differential: WESTERN BULLDOGS 3.5 10.10 15.13 21.18 (144) ST KILDA 2.0 3.1 4.2 5.3 (33)

Author:	Hornet [ Sun May 23, 2021 10:34 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Rd 8: Western Bulldogs v Carlton (Post match Discussion)
Not sure it's a good idea to measure ourselves against St Kilda atm...

Author:	SurreyBlue [ Sun May 23, 2021 10:44 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Rd 8: Western Bulldogs v Carlton (Post match Discussion)
Hornet wrote: Not sure it's a good idea to measure ourselves against St Kilda atm... We’ve been doing it since 2000. They have been our benchmark team in rebuilds.

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Author:	WOW [ Sun May 23, 2021 11:27 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Rd 8: Western Bulldogs v Carlton (Post match Discussion)
SurreyBlue wrote: Hornet wrote: Not sure it's a good idea to measure ourselves against St Kilda atm... We’ve been doing it since 2000. They have been our benchmark team in rebuilds. They did make two grand finals in the 2000’s. Probably could have pinched both games. We have been worse this century. Still doesn’t take away the fact they have been a tragic club for over 120 years.