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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 10:07 am 
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Craig Bradley
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aboynamedsue wrote:
Speaking of crucial misses, the two by Williams & McKay towards the end of the 3 quarter. We were 25 points ahead and you could sense the Dogs were lifting. We kick those goals, it becomes a 37 point lead and I reckon we would have had the confidence to go on with it from there. They weren’t sodas, but both were gettable.

Anyway, the usual overreactions from the usual posters after the game. Yes, losing absolutely sucks and nobody is happy about it - but there are positives to be found amongst the disappointment.

The sky is not falling in. The simple fact is that there’s plenty of improvement required before we are a top side.


Will admit to being one aboynamedsue. Was pretty pissed off yesterday, but in the cold light of day, it did come down to our deficient midfield. Dogs have one of the best in the leaguie and cream rises. We have to find some ways to quickly close this gap. We need our 2-4 year players to step up and we need to get our top draftees of the last 2 years, fit and firing as soon as we can.

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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 10:08 am 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
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dannyboy wrote:
For mine, was happy for almost 3 quarters and then what I was worried about when i saw that side became the thing that killed us.

People bang on about recruiting - well its a bit @#$%&! hard for SPS to show he is a midfielder when he either plays HBF or doesn't @#$%&! play.
DOW started well, gets hurt back to reserves - maybe he had to?
Kennedy/Setterfield - please choose one and play them in the guts not on the @#$%&! wing!

I still think Fogarty and Owies are doing okay - they are only bit players learning the trade.


For me - Newness out (we got that goal out of him, deal done) Honey in.
Gibbons out - not a forward, in the guts or out - for me, out.

And what about Cripps playing more forward, CHF instead of Casboult - backup ruck. Cant be any worse, might be better.

We need to completely remodel that midfield - try the @#$%&! kids we are not winning a flag this year.

And for me, Williams either wing or HBF.

Agree with most of this DB
Problem is the mids we gave up so much for in
recruiting can’t dominate VFL

But yes try some different stuff
Want to see Honey get a decent month in the ones at least


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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 10:25 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 2:10 pm
Posts: 2455
ScottSaunders2 wrote:
Navy Blue Horse wrote:
keogh wrote:
Here is the deal in simple terms
In today’s football you have to bat deep in the middle.
We don’t and eventually the weight of numbers tells.
The dogs won the inside 50 count by 16.

Cuningham
Kennedy
Dow
SPS
O’ Brien
Setterfield
All picked with quality picks or trades
Have failed to deliver
That essentially is the main reason we arnt good enough
SOSs fingerprints are all over this rebuild

Add the decision to trade away picks and give up plenty of salary cap space
for Williams
Saad
Martin
McGovern
Fogarty
We are simply a dumb club and have been a dumb club for a long time
In relation to these new players
Fogarty after a good start is starting to show signs as to why Geelong were happy to part with him
Just average
Martin injury prone and soft
McGovern ditto
Saad very one dimensional player. You need more than that from a guy on a big long term contract who you gave up pick 8 to get him
Williams clearly injured but you play a guy on $850000 a season. Another dumb decision

If I was Teague I would play Honey whose form in the twos the last month has been good
Play Stocker in the guts

I thought the effort today was actually really good but in the end the lack of depth in the middle is telling

Cripps looks spent to me
I love the guy but in the end maybe the best thing is to let him go get a compensation pick

When Curnow is still your number one mid in a game like he was today it shows how poor our recruiting has been over the last 6 years in relation to mids

If it wasn’t for Weitering and Jones it would of been a eight goal loss

Don’t blame Teague
Blame the recruiting department
And as I said the Board is where the problems originate


Agree re the midfield. If we had that part right we wouldn't be taking about Saad, Fogarty and Martin. Pockets and flankers are there to play a role, not win the game.



i agree to an extent, but think a few players are abit stiff in that apprasil

for mind ... and i hate to say this .. but Cripps has become a liability ... he is a star, but something isnt right with him. as others have said, either injured or checked out (at the moment, if it was Freo 1st pick and one of Cerra or Serong id say go for it .. build around walsh who is now our best midfielder at 21)

We look like a more damaging midfield when Cunningham plays through the middle. Perhaps the other players arent banging down the door, but Cunningham gets better with every game and looks better again when he is on the ball.

I have noticed abit of talk about how Teague didnt have Cripps on the ground at the start of 3/4 time. For mine, i thought we played some of our best football without him on the field. dogs where coming from half time, despite what the reviews might say about the score, the difference being is not only did we defend and defend well, but we increased our lead. It was possible the best football we have played for sometime ... and cripps was off the ground for large parts of it. Perhaps that was part of the plan by Teague, to give the players the evidence they need to know they can do it without him, we need to compliment cripps, not rely on him for everything.

we are so close, those who think we are miles off are over-reacting. we are so close.

we continue to play players that arent fit and constantly playing 2 or 3 players down each week. It just doenst make sense to me. Cripps, Williams, Levi ... not only where we outnumbered around the ground, but we where two down in the midfield, against the one side in the comp that probably goes 10 deep in the midfield. to be in the position we where was incredible. Losing Silvagni ... who was on Daniels ... was the turning point. Daniels was non exitent until he went off, then absolutly dominated when he went off. That combined with the dominance of their midfield is why we lost. Im not sure any coach could remedy that.

dogs had next to no-one out injured either. It makes a difference. Newman, TDK, SOS (for the whole game) Fisher, Martin, Curnow into that side, not even including some of the kids we just dont know about yet, and its easily could have held on. Really when you think about our forwards (whilst having the no 1 forward in the comp) have had zero games together. Get them all on the park and we are different side.

... oh and one last thing ... when are we going to start calling cheats, cheats and "professional free kicks" are call for what they are ... cheating.

Hunter, is a dead set cheat. Twice he did everything he could to get a free kick and twice the umpires got sucked in and two goals the result. instead of people coming out a calling it for what it is, cheating.


They were missing their first two rucks, given Pittonet is useless it’s reasonable to think they’d have had first use more often and that the outcome might have been more apparent earlier had one or both played.

We’re not close, we’re miles off and yesterday’s capitulation was just another chapter in a very depressing book.


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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 10:28 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:51 pm
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Did anyone see Beveridge press conference. This quote from an article this morning is for me telling.
We were out coached.

“The coach was pleased with how his side weathered the Carlton storm, while also alluding to several tactical changes which helped his men overcome the deficit”


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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 10:30 am 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:52 am
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Reminded me of the Geelong game last year in Geelong. We managed to hang on that night. Played great football for 3/4 but ran out of gas in the last.


Last edited by club29 on Mon May 10, 2021 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 10:58 am 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
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79Vintage wrote:
Very disappointing last quarter. We try hard but aren't good enough. Not down on the boys but just disappointed. It will sting for a couple of days but then we have to get up for another challenge next week against Melbourne. Go Blues!


Do we?
Not being a smart alec but the qn needs to be asked
Effort and work rate is as much mindset as it is physical exertion

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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 11:04 am 
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Robert Walls

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dannyboy wrote:
For mine, was happy for almost 3 quarters and then what I was worried about when i saw that side became the thing that killed us.

People bang on about recruiting - well its a bit @#$%&! hard for SPS to show he is a midfielder when he either plays HBF or doesn't @#$%&! play. :clap:
DOW started well, gets hurt back to reserves - maybe he had to?
Kennedy/Setterfield - please choose one and play them in the guts not on the @#$%&! wing! :clap:

I still think Fogarty and Owies are doing okay - they are only bit players learning the trade.


For me - Newness out (we got that goal out of him, deal done) Honey in.
Gibbons out - not a forward, in the guts or out - for me, out.

And what about Cripps playing more forward, CHF instead of Casboult - backup ruck. Cant be any worse, might be better. :clap:

We need to completely remodel that midfield - try the @#$%&! kids we are not winning a flag this year.


And for me, Williams either wing or HBF.

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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 11:06 am 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 1:40 pm
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Both the reserves and the seniors had recurring problems yesterday.

In the seconds they dominated for periods but got nothing out of it. We've seen that many times before. 20-minute periods where we lock the ball in the front half and just fail to score, only to let a few cheap ones out the other way in red-time. They also fell well behind and mounted a strong comeback before falling *just* short.

In the seniors, we had a period where they the opposition got on top in the middle and we couldn't stop them. Same happened in the second q. against Brisbane, and many times otherwise.

Both senior and reserves teams also had periods where they were on top but didn't put it on the scoreboard.

Williams, Newnes, Cunningham, Fogarty, Silvagni x 2... and to a lesser extent Casboult. All gettable goals.


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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 11:11 am 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 1:40 pm
Posts: 3280
Oh, and the other thing:

We're playing okay and scoring okay... but we're one-dimensional:

Our top-three goasl-kickers:

Harry McKay (30)

Eddie Betts (10) - five yesterday

Michael Gibbons (6)


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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 11:38 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
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Location: North of the border
Saw a stat last night

Carltons scores when JSOS on the park +76
Carlton Scores when JSOS off the park -112


Not sure what it is like for any other player or if it means anything but interesting

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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 11:51 am 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:52 am
Posts: 8927
Location: Nth Fitzroy
dannyboy wrote:
For mine, was happy for almost 3 quarters and then what I was worried about when i saw that side became the thing that killed us.

People bang on about recruiting - well its a bit @#$%&! hard for SPS to show he is a midfielder when he either plays HBF or doesn't @#$%&! play.
DOW started well, gets hurt back to reserves - maybe he had to?
Kennedy/Setterfield - please choose one and play them in the guts not on the @#$%&! wing!

I still think Fogarty and Owies are doing okay - they are only bit players learning the trade.


For me - Newness out (we got that goal out of him, deal done) Honey in.
Gibbons out - not a forward, in the guts or out - for me, out.

And what about Cripps playing more forward, CHF instead of Casboult - backup ruck. Cant be any worse, might be better.

We need to completely remodel that midfield - try the @#$%&! kids we are not winning a flag this year.

And for me, Williams either wing or HBF.


The problem is the Dogs bang on about their players being able to play in any position. The have the little guy with the helmet playing as a back pocket when he is a mid and a bunch of other blokes playing in different positions to what they were drafted as. They are being praised for it.

SPS should be a better back flanker and Setterfield should be a better winger.

We need to stop playing underdone and injured players and expecting them to go flat out for 120 mins.

Pick a fresh team of match fit players and see how it goes. It will pay off in the long run. We will have to cop some more losses though.


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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 12:18 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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I understand what you are saying re different positions the difference is though their midfield @#$%&! works ours doesn't - so for me before worrying about the niceties of player movement, fix the @#$%&! midfield. If Setterfield, Dow, SOS, Kennedy are genuinely tried in the midfield and then fail then they are not the answer and must play elsewhere or @#$%&! off, but...its that first part - can they? that we do not know.

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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 12:34 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:22 am
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Firstly, we should be wary off what other teams are being praised for - this shifts and turns entirely on results which are likely most affected by other things.
e.g. Bulldogs are being praised for their player versatility now but were being questioned on the same point over the past few seasons. I don't think Crippa is much chop as a forward - for starters, his set shot kicking is terrible.

The Saints had leapfrogged the Dees just last year, after the Dees leapfrogged them the year before (or maybe it was the year before that). The Dees list wasn't much chop and their midfield was full of one-paced players. That was a whole 10 games ago.

We are playing very well for longer periods in matches than last year but still unable to slow things down or stem the tide when the opposition gets on top. Still, we haven't lost by more than 5 goals. Against top teams Bulldogs, Port, Richmond and Brisbane. We should have beaten the Dogs but couldn't hold it together when they lifted. We definitely should not have lost to the Pies but that was their best match for the year when their intensity was highest and their best players on the park. But we should have won.

I see us progressing but more like Melbourne and StK have over the past few years than the Lions who suddenly jumped to top 4 a couple of years ago (which they couldn't sustain through the finals - and I note that Teague spoke about us aiming to be a top 4 team which is correct; and then being criticised b/c we need to be a top 8 team first...).

We are applying good intensity for most of the time this season and yesterday we added some great composure until half way through the third. After that, I felt we lifted the foot off the gas just a little and the mistakes crept in (sloppy handballs and kicks) and then it just got worse from there. These are things we can fix although requires mental fortitude. And more fitness from more players.

Finally, the scores for Vs against is a bit misleading. Yes, we have let through a lot but, again, we have not once been smashed. Unlike Geelong, West Coast, Richmond or Port Adelaide.

I don't think we should drop Williams if fitness, rather than injury, is his issue. He will be better for the run. However, he should play mostly off half back until he proves himself fit enough to run out a game on the ball. I'd give Stocker more of a go in the middle. I'd bring in TDK for JSOS and possibly give Casboult a couple of weeks to rest his knee. And I'd include 2 of Dow, SPS, and Murphy. We should only drop Cripps if he has an injury that will improve with a week or two rest. Otherwise, he needs to work through this. He definitely looks out of sorts - I was expecting him to lift us over the line in the last quarter but he just couldn't manage it.

For me:
Out: JSOS (concussion), Gibbons, Newnes, Casboult
In: TDK, Dow, SPS, Newman

(And Setterfield for Cripps if Cripps needs a break.)

Williams goes to Half Back, Stocker joins the midfield rotation with Walsh, Cripps, Dow, SPS, & Cunningham (who has looked good but now needs to get more of the ball).

PS. I am not expecting Dow to come in and be the difference just yet. Some are talking him up as the messiah b/c he got a few clearances in the early stages of last week. That was good but he needs to be able to do that for 4 quarters and with good disposal.


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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 12:46 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Teague's presser. Spoke OK I thought, although I wish he didn't have that habit of going aaaaaaaahm all the time. Cripps does it too.

https://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/9328 ... 0552282001

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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 1:05 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22924
Location: Bondi Beach
london blue wrote:
dannyboy wrote:
For mine, was happy for almost 3 quarters and then what I was worried about when i saw that side became the thing that killed us.

People bang on about recruiting - well its a bit @#$%&! hard for SPS to show he is a midfielder when he either plays HDF or doesn't @#$%&! play.
DOW started well, gets hurt back to reserves - maybe he had to?
Kennedy/Setterfield - please choose one and play them in the guts not on the @#$%&! wing!

I still think Fogarty and Owies are doing okay - they are only bit players learning the trade.


For me - Newness out (we got that goal out of him, deal done) Honey in.
Gibbons out - not a forward, in the guts or out - for me, out.

And what about Cripps playing more forward, CHF instead of Casboult - backup ruck. Cant be any worse, might be better.

We need to completely remodel that midfield - try the @#$%&! kids we are not winning a flag this year.

And for me, Williams either wing or HBF.


100%

Particularly this - Cripps in the fwd line/relief tuck, Williams HBF or wing (and throw doc into the midfield) and give the young blokes recruited as mids a go.....they are two years on from Bolton ‘throwing them to the wolves’.....time to get in with it.


Nice one DB

Cripps was the single most reason we lost to the Doggies.
When he came on in the 3rd he became a liability with his half heated efforts to contest.
He was never going to win a contested ball against mids who wanted it more.

Prior to the game I preferred to see Setterfield as the inside mid.

Next week, I want Cripps at CHF to replace Jack and DeKoning to replace Levi.

Gibbons Newnes Owies and Fogarty are not good AFL players. They play a role in a team with a plethora of injuries.

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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 1:09 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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club29 wrote:
Reminded me of the Geelong game last year in Geelong. We managed to hang on that night. Played great football for 3/4 but ran out of gas in the last.


Andrew Russell might be able to explain why.

Why did it happen a year on after a preseason where most players were available from the start except for Charlie

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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 1:09 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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17th Premiership wrote:
Firstly, we should be wary off what other teams are being praised for - this shifts and turns entirely on results which are likely most affected by other things.
e.g. Bulldogs are being praised for their player versatility now but were being questioned on the same point over the past few seasons. I don't think Crippa is much chop as a forward - for starters, his set shot kicking is terrible.

The Saints had leapfrogged the Dees just last year, after the Dees leapfrogged them the year before (or maybe it was the year before that). The Dees list wasn't much chop and their midfield was full of one-paced players. That was a whole 10 games ago.

We are playing very well for longer periods in matches than last year but still unable to slow things down or stem the tide when the opposition gets on top. Still, we haven't lost by more than 5 goals. Against top teams Bulldogs, Port, Richmond and Brisbane. We should have beaten the Dogs but couldn't hold it together when they lifted. We definitely should not have lost to the Pies but that was their best match for the year when their intensity was highest and their best players on the park. But we should have won.

I see us progressing but more like Melbourne and StK have over the past few years than the Lions who suddenly jumped to top 4 a couple of years ago (which they couldn't sustain through the finals - and I note that Teague spoke about us aiming to be a top 4 team which is correct; and then being criticised b/c we need to be a top 8 team first...).

We are applying good intensity for most of the time this season and yesterday we added some great composure until half way through the third. After that, I felt we lifted the foot off the gas just a little and the mistakes crept in (sloppy handballs and kicks) and then it just got worse from there. These are things we can fix although requires mental fortitude. And more fitness from more players.

Finally, the scores for Vs against is a bit misleading. Yes, we have let through a lot but, again, we have not once been smashed. Unlike Geelong, West Coast, Richmond or Port Adelaide.

I don't think we should drop Williams if fitness, rather than injury, is his issue. He will be better for the run. However, he should play mostly off half back until he proves himself fit enough to run out a game on the ball. I'd give Stocker more of a go in the middle. I'd bring in TDK for JSOS and possibly give Casboult a couple of weeks to rest his knee. And I'd include 2 of Dow, SPS, and Murphy. We should only drop Cripps if he has an injury that will improve with a week or two rest. Otherwise, he needs to work through this. He definitely looks out of sorts - I was expecting him to lift us over the line in the last quarter but he just couldn't manage it.

For me:
Out: JSOS (concussion), Gibbons, Newnes, Casboult
In: TDK, Dow, SPS, Newman

(And Setterfield for Cripps if Cripps needs a break.)

Williams goes to Half Back, Stocker joins the midfield rotation with Walsh, Cripps, Dow, SPS, & Cunningham (who has looked good but now needs to get more of the ball).

PS. I am not expecting Dow to come in and be the difference just yet. Some are talking him up as the messiah b/c he got a few clearances in the early stages of last week. That was good but he needs to be able to do that for 4 quarters and with good disposal.


I know we play Melbourne and I know he'll chuck a tantrum but ,,,,, he needs a break. Looks injured, most likely is injured. Can't bend over, he was never quick but is slower than ever. No use playing him forward in his current condition. We've done OK without him in the team (eg: Freo in WA) and I'm sure we can do it again. Let him rest up for however long it takes.

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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 1:12 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Navy One wrote:
Can't bend over



Disagree - that's our strong suit

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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 1:49 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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CK95 wrote:
Navy One wrote:
Can't bend over



Disagree - that's our strong suit


Sad but true

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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 2:22 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 2434
Navy One wrote:
17th Premiership wrote:
Firstly, we should be wary off what other teams are being praised for - this shifts and turns entirely on results which are likely most affected by other things.
e.g. Bulldogs are being praised for their player versatility now but were being questioned on the same point over the past few seasons. I don't think Crippa is much chop as a forward - for starters, his set shot kicking is terrible.

The Saints had leapfrogged the Dees just last year, after the Dees leapfrogged them the year before (or maybe it was the year before that). The Dees list wasn't much chop and their midfield was full of one-paced players. That was a whole 10 games ago.

We are playing very well for longer periods in matches than last year but still unable to slow things down or stem the tide when the opposition gets on top. Still, we haven't lost by more than 5 goals. Against top teams Bulldogs, Port, Richmond and Brisbane. We should have beaten the Dogs but couldn't hold it together when they lifted. We definitely should not have lost to the Pies but that was their best match for the year when their intensity was highest and their best players on the park. But we should have won.

I see us progressing but more like Melbourne and StK have over the past few years than the Lions who suddenly jumped to top 4 a couple of years ago (which they couldn't sustain through the finals - and I note that Teague spoke about us aiming to be a top 4 team which is correct; and then being criticised b/c we need to be a top 8 team first...).

We are applying good intensity for most of the time this season and yesterday we added some great composure until half way through the third. After that, I felt we lifted the foot off the gas just a little and the mistakes crept in (sloppy handballs and kicks) and then it just got worse from there. These are things we can fix although requires mental fortitude. And more fitness from more players.

Finally, the scores for Vs against is a bit misleading. Yes, we have let through a lot but, again, we have not once been smashed. Unlike Geelong, West Coast, Richmond or Port Adelaide.

I don't think we should drop Williams if fitness, rather than injury, is his issue. He will be better for the run. However, he should play mostly off half back until he proves himself fit enough to run out a game on the ball. I'd give Stocker more of a go in the middle. I'd bring in TDK for JSOS and possibly give Casboult a couple of weeks to rest his knee. And I'd include 2 of Dow, SPS, and Murphy. We should only drop Cripps if he has an injury that will improve with a week or two rest. Otherwise, he needs to work through this. He definitely looks out of sorts - I was expecting him to lift us over the line in the last quarter but he just couldn't manage it.

For me:
Out: JSOS (concussion), Gibbons, Newnes, Casboult
In: TDK, Dow, SPS, Newman

(And Setterfield for Cripps if Cripps needs a break.)

Williams goes to Half Back, Stocker joins the midfield rotation with Walsh, Cripps, Dow, SPS, & Cunningham (who has looked good but now needs to get more of the ball).

PS. I am not expecting Dow to come in and be the difference just yet. Some are talking him up as the messiah b/c he got a few clearances in the early stages of last week. That was good but he needs to be able to do that for 4 quarters and with good disposal.


I know we play Melbourne and I know he'll chuck a tantrum but ,,,,, he needs a break. Looks injured, most likely is injured. Can't bend over, he was never quick but is slower than ever. No use playing him forward in his current condition. We've done OK without him in the team (eg: Freo in WA) and I'm sure we can do it again. Let him rest up for however long it takes.


And more than that, Teague should have a word to him about more ways than one to let the team down e.g. insisting that you're right to go when you really are not.
PS. It drove me nuts listening to the commentators on TV lamenting Cripps on the bench to start the 3rd quarter, without even raising the possibility that he might be injured...


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