TalkingCarlton :: View topic - R8: Carlton v Bulldogs (Pre Match Discussion)

His own or Libbas?

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Saw highlights of goalkickers in the vfl

TDK kicked one and gave one off in the goal square.
Effectively created 2 goals.

I forgot how lean and wiry he is.
Looks like a developing ruckman, size wise.

Might need a couple games in VFL...although I hope not.

bondiblue wrote:

He was starting to bulk up a lot early 2019 and the club held him back, kept him out of the gym. They don't want him to lose his athleticism, agility, and coordination, which are his biggest assets and can be compromised if you get too big too quick.

I think it's the right move given how the game is played these days. Watching that young Essendon** ruckman jump all over Pittonet made me realise just how much we are missing TDK right now

Williams and J.Silvagni come in
Gibbons and McGovern out

Have to get SPS in the team, and Dow, if right, looks worth keeping in the seniors but not as sub

Cripps played his worst game for Carlton v Effendrug*
Levi was a liability and still not taking enough contested marks.
Gibbons is doing some dumb things every week. Not physically imposing.
Pittonet has lost any form he showed last year.
Plowman too loose since round 1
Newnes also not showing any form since round 1

The above imo were our weakest links.

DeKoning in Levi out (couldn't do worse than Levi and he gets to run around at the next level.

If English comes back and and will I'd rather DeKoning follow him around everywhere like the Dogs did with English's development.
Levi can't do it. Drop Levi, and the team is better for it.

Have to keep Pittonet as first ruck, till DeKoning takes that spot...then midyear draft a Ruck Fwd (dont grow on trees)...

Owies Parks Stocker to keep continuing their progress. I'm loving what Stocker is doing. Great for his development and his confidence.
Owies keeps Murph out.

bondiblue wrote:

Agree 100%.

Not dropping Cottrell. His running to support is better than anyone in the team (except Walsh of course).

Still going strong in the last qtr and getting better each week

aboynamedsue wrote:

azzablue wrote:

aboynamedsue wrote:

azzablue wrote:

[quote="aboynamedsue"]Pleasing returns from TDK & Newman in the reserves from long term injuries today, but they need at least a couple of more reserves games IMO. I wouldn’t be considering them this week.

Disappointing about McGovern (hamstring) - I thought he played pretty well. Let’s hope he doesn’t miss more than 2-3 weeks. SOJ seems like his obvious replacement. If SOJ is unavailable too, it probably becomes a choice between Kennedy, Setterfield or Honey.

If Dow is OK, do both he & SPS hold their places? If so, I guess Gibbons becomes the medical sub.

And if both Dow & Williams are fit, it will be interesting... I’m sure I’ll get shouted down for suggesting it, but in that event I would put SPS in the starting 22, Gibbons as medical sub, drop Stocker and play Williams as a defender/midfielder.

In - SOJ, SPS, Williams
Out - McGovern (inj), Gibbons (sub), Stocker.

If Dow isn’t right, then Stocker holds his place and Williams plays as a midfielder.

Great idea , stocker starting to find his feet , his handballs , tackling and toughness was excellent and now you want to drop him !!

Casboult , pittonent and gibbons were the liabilities yesterday

We literally have nobody who can replace Casboult & Pittonet until TDK is match fit and I have said we ought to demote Gibbons to medical sub. I’m in no hurry to drop Stocker but someone will need to come out if Dow, SPS, SOJ & Williams are all to play. Driving high standards with our young guys is not a bad thing.

If we are talking about high standards then plowman and Docherty need to be dropped !!

And Murphy not to return ...

If you think Stocker offers more (at this point of his career) than Doc & Plowman.....well, I give up.

He has been a great servant but unfortunately Murph only runs one way he
always has.
These young guys like Cottrell and Owies add much more in the current stand on the mark game.
Gotta be able to run chase tackle pressure hustle otherwise your not a small forward in the modern game.

I’ve been critical of Doch but he was good v Essendon**, Plow was ok too.

Our defence finds it tough as our midfield turn it over too much and aren’t great at tracking back.

Author:	CK95 [ Mon May 03, 2021 8:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R8: Carlton v Bulldogs (Pre Match Discussion)
SOJ won't have played footy for a month

Author:	bondiblue [ Mon May 03, 2021 9:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R8: Carlton v Bulldogs (Pre Match Discussion)
Saw highlights of goalkickers in the vfl TDK kicked one and gave one off in the goal square. Effectively created 2 goals. I forgot how lean and wiry he is. Looks like a developing ruckman, size wise. Might need a couple games in VFL...although I hope not.

Author:	Pat's Fitztrick [ Mon May 03, 2021 10:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R8: Carlton v Bulldogs (Pre Match Discussion)
Lace Out wrote: His own or Libbas? Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

Author:	jake_h03 [ Mon May 03, 2021 11:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R8: Carlton v Bulldogs (Pre Match Discussion)
bondiblue wrote: Saw highlights of goalkickers in the vfl TDK kicked one and gave one off in the goal square. Effectively created 2 goals. I forgot how lean and wiry he is. Looks like a developing ruckman, size wise. Might need a couple games in VFL...although I hope not. He was starting to bulk up a lot early 2019 and the club held him back, kept him out of the gym. They don't want him to lose his athleticism, agility, and coordination, which are his biggest assets and can be compromised if you get too big too quick. I think it's the right move given how the game is played these days. Watching that young Essendon* ruckman jump all over Pittonet made me realise just how much we are missing TDK right now

Author:	bondiblue [ Tue May 04, 2021 11:28 am ]
Post subject:	Re: R8: Carlton v Bulldogs (Pre Match Discussion)
jake_h03 wrote: bondiblue wrote: Saw highlights of goalkickers in the vfl TDK kicked one and gave one off in the goal square. Effectively created 2 goals. I forgot how lean and wiry he is. Looks like a developing ruckman, size wise. Might need a couple games in VFL...although I hope not. He was starting to bulk up a lot early 2019 and the club held him back, kept him out of the gym. They don't want him to lose his athleticism, agility, and coordination, which are his biggest assets and can be compromised if you get too big too quick. I think it's the right move given how the game is played these days. Watching that young Essendon** ruckman jump all over Pittonet made me realise just how much we are missing TDK right now I agree too. Thtought the same when I saw Bryan jumping over Pitto. Pitto didnt have an idea on how to counter Bryan. Kreuzer the ruck coach? Needs more imo, or he aint ever going to get it. TDK developed a hot spot in his back from extra weights he was doing ... I think on the sneak. If they can bring in Bryan who wasnmt in any great form, but the only one left following injury to Draper and Philps, then we can get TDK in for centre square ruck work, then Pitto can take over from there around the ground. I really don't want Levi to play for our seniors. Can't see the value. Can see the liability.

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R8: Carlton v Bulldogs (Pre Match Discussion) https://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=37193	Page 4 of 10

Author:	17th Premiership [ Tue May 04, 2021 12:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R8: Carlton v Bulldogs (Pre Match Discussion)
bondiblue wrote: Williams and J.Silvagni come in Gibbons and McGovern out Have to get SPS in the team, and Dow, if right, looks worth keeping in the seniors but not as sub Cripps played his worst game for Carlton v Effendrug* Levi was a liability and still not taking enough contested marks. Gibbons is doing some dumb things every week. Not physically imposing. Pittonet has lost any form he showed last year. Plowman too loose since round 1 Newnes also not showing any form since round 1 The above imo were our weakest links. DeKoning in Levi out (couldn't do worse than Levi and he gets to run around at the next level. If English comes back and and will I'd rather DeKoning follow him around everywhere like the Dogs did with English's development. Levi can't do it. Drop Levi, and the team is better for it. Have to keep Pittonet as first ruck, till DeKoning takes that spot...then midyear draft a Ruck Fwd (dont grow on trees)... Owies Parks Stocker to keep continuing their progress. I'm loving what Stocker is doing. Great for his development and his confidence. Owies keeps Murph out. Agree 100%.

Author:	jake_h03 [ Tue May 04, 2021 12:40 pm ]
Post subject:	R8: Carlton v Bulldogs (Pre Match Discussion)
Dogs are gettable. They were pretty well dominated by a Richmond team missing Dusty, Prestia, Lambert and Vlastuin. We seem to match up well on them as we’ve had a few good wins over the past few years, even when we’ve been ordinary. Just have to turn up to play Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Author:	Sydney Blue [ Tue May 04, 2021 2:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R8: Carlton v Bulldogs (Pre Match Discussion)
This is the changes I would like to see TDK to replace Levi - If Tom is fit and they keep playing Levi I will loose my shit JSOS or Kennedy to replace Gov Bring in Newman - push Stocker up the ground at the expense of Cotrell or Newnes Bring in Murphy and replace Gibbons If Dow doesnt come up you have to reward good form in the 2's and promote Setters I doubt they will make that many changes to a winning side

Author:	bluechampion [ Tue May 04, 2021 2:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R8: Carlton v Bulldogs (Pre Match Discussion)
It really depends on the injury situation, but we don't tend to make many changes when we win.

Author:	sticksaftersiren87 [ Tue May 04, 2021 2:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R8: Carlton v Bulldogs (Pre Match Discussion)
Not dropping Cottrell. His running to support is better than anyone in the team (except Walsh of course). Still going strong in the last qtr and getting better each week

Author:	Teddy Hopkins [ Tue May 04, 2021 6:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R8: Carlton v Bulldogs (Pre Match Discussion)
17th Premiership wrote: bondiblue wrote: Williams and J.Silvagni come in Gibbons and McGovern out Have to get SPS in the team, and Dow, if right, looks worth keeping in the seniors but not as sub Cripps played his worst game for Carlton v Effendrug* Levi was a liability and still not taking enough contested marks. Gibbons is doing some dumb things every week. Not physically imposing. Pittonet has lost any form he showed last year. Plowman too loose since round 1 Newnes also not showing any form since round 1 The above imo were our weakest links. DeKoning in Levi out (couldn't do worse than Levi and he gets to run around at the next level. If English comes back and and will I'd rather DeKoning follow him around everywhere like the Dogs did with English's development. Levi can't do it. Drop Levi, and the team is better for it. Have to keep Pittonet as first ruck, till DeKoning takes that spot...then midyear draft a Ruck Fwd (dont grow on trees)... Owies Parks Stocker to keep continuing their progress. I'm loving what Stocker is doing. Great for his development and his confidence. Owies keeps Murph out. Agree 100%. Murphy will come back if fit. Maybe for Gibbons. Who makes way for Williams. Newnes?

Author:	jezzarules [ Tue May 04, 2021 6:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R8: Carlton v Bulldogs (Pre Match Discussion)
Hopefully Williams is ok and not suffering Achilles issue as I read somewhere

Author:	mymanmurph [ Tue May 04, 2021 7:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R8: Carlton v Bulldogs (Pre Match Discussion)
He has been a great servant but unfortunately Murph only runs one way he always has. These young guys like Cottrell and Owies add much more in the current stand on the mark game. Gotta be able to run chase tackle pressure hustle otherwise your not a small forward in the modern game.

Author:	Crusader [ Tue May 04, 2021 8:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R8: Carlton v Bulldogs (Pre Match Discussion)
Newman, Williams & Silvagni should come in. Also SPS into the 22. Newman is absolutely critical to our defensive structure. The fact that Parks looks a goer means we can get Newy back to a wing/HBF role and shift Doc into a straight up intercept role. B: Parks Weitering Plowman HB: Docherty Jones Saad C: Newman Cripps Walsh R: Pittonet Curnow Williams HF: Fogarty Casboult Silvagni F: Betts McKay Owies I: SPS Stocker Cottrell Cunningham OUT: Dow McGovern Gibbons Newnes IN: Newman Silvagni Williams SPS Casboult is saved by McGovern’s hammy.

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Author:	Lace Out [ Tue May 04, 2021 11:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: R8: Carlton v Bulldogs (Pre Match Discussion)
sticksaftersiren87 wrote: Not dropping Cottrell. His running to support is better than anyone in the team (except Walsh of course). Still going strong in the last qtr and getting better each week I would. He turned it over too much and tends to bomb it in hope regularly. Let him work on it in the reserves. Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

Author:	Adam Chatfield [ Wed May 05, 2021 12:16 am ]
Post subject:	R8: Carlton v Bulldogs (Pre Match Discussion)
azzablue wrote: aboynamedsue wrote: azzablue wrote: aboynamedsue wrote: azzablue wrote: [quote="aboynamedsue"]Pleasing returns from TDK & Newman in the reserves from long term injuries today, but they need at least a couple of more reserves games IMO. I wouldn’t be considering them this week. Disappointing about McGovern (hamstring) - I thought he played pretty well. Let’s hope he doesn’t miss more than 2-3 weeks. SOJ seems like his obvious replacement. If SOJ is unavailable too, it probably becomes a choice between Kennedy, Setterfield or Honey. If Dow is OK, do both he & SPS hold their places? If so, I guess Gibbons becomes the medical sub. And if both Dow & Williams are fit, it will be interesting... I’m sure I’ll get shouted down for suggesting it, but in that event I would put SPS in the starting 22, Gibbons as medical sub, drop Stocker and play Williams as a defender/midfielder. In - SOJ, SPS, Williams Out - McGovern (inj), Gibbons (sub), Stocker. If Dow isn’t right, then Stocker holds his place and Williams plays as a midfielder. Great idea , stocker starting to find his feet , his handballs , tackling and toughness was excellent and now you want to drop him !! Casboult , pittonent and gibbons were the liabilities yesterday We literally have nobody who can replace Casboult & Pittonet until TDK is match fit and I have said we ought to demote Gibbons to medical sub. I’m in no hurry to drop Stocker but someone will need to come out if Dow, SPS, SOJ & Williams are all to play. Driving high standards with our young guys is not a bad thing. If we are talking about high standards then plowman and Docherty need to be dropped !! And Murphy not to return ... If you think Stocker offers more (at this point of his career) than Doc & Plowman.....well, I give up. Thank you for giving up !! Watch the first qtr and see how plowman is going ... Doc have a look at his skills for this season Newman is coming for both of them[/quote] I’ve been critical of Doch but he was good v Essendon*, Plow was ok too. Our defence finds it tough as our midfield turn it over too much and aren’t great at tracking back.

Author:	bondiblue [ Wed May 05, 2021 9:53 am ]
Post subject:	Re: R8: Carlton v Bulldogs (Pre Match Discussion)
mymanmurph wrote: He has been a great servant but unfortunately Murph only runs one way he always has. These young guys like Cottrell and Owies add much more in the current stand on the mark game. Gotta be able to run chase tackle pressure hustle otherwise your not a small forward in the modern game. Exactly No passengers

Author:	ianh [ Wed May 05, 2021 10:21 am ]
Post subject:	Re: R8: Carlton v Bulldogs (Pre Match Discussion)
...then midyear draft a Ruck Fwd (dont grow on trees)... /quote] Maybe Jack Hayes from WWT in the sanfl? Only 194cm but does chop out in the ruck. https://sanfl.com.au/league/news/statew ... -50-no-37/

Author:	bondiblue [ Wed May 05, 2021 10:23 am ]
Post subject:	Re: R8: Carlton v Bulldogs (Pre Match Discussion)
Adam Chatfield wrote: I’ve been critical of Doch but he was good v Essendon*, Plow was ok too. Our defence finds it tough as our midfield turn it over too much and aren’t great at tracking back. Its easy to be critical with Doc this year, given the lofty expectations everyone has of him. Even in the games where he leaked goals from mishandling/ fumbling and awareness, which normally isn't an issue we think of with Doc, his output for the body of the game has been very good. I've been a bit too critical of Doc, but I had a chance to watch a string of games with my son whilst he's home recovering, and when you look at all the games, with an open mind and not an over critical emotional response: Carlton has played good footy every game. Every game there has been lapses/ bounce of the ball against us...probably accounted for by a set up issue. Those small lapses cost us games, no doubt, and we are not that far off. Doc has been fumbling a bit. His hands are usually supple and sticky but not 100% this year. Plowman is versatile in that he plays against talls and smalls and knows our structures but... Plow doesn't have the mental stamina to completely dominate either talls or smalls, and is the best available Crippas awareness of what ius around him is a problem because he's so confident he will bust through anything. the connection amongst the midfield is minimal/ ad hoc, and non existent other than when saad runs in from HB. wingmen must be part of the midfield connection at centre bounces. Game plan seems really simple. Week in week out, a long kicking game. Charlie's presence would have made a huge difference we've been carrying injured players into games: Crippa, Levi, Williams, Saad, Doc and Jack the obvious ones the inability to block the lead lane has cost us most goals. Media have highlighted the main obvious culprit. I thought Teagues game plan this year with the addition of Saad and williams would be a quick running game, but its not. I can't see evidence of s structured team defense. maybe Teague tries to disguise it when he says "play our way". Seems like one on one defense.