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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:44 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 6357
Location: Bendigo
sinbagger wrote:
cecil89 wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
Walsh wrote:
Two changes for me

In: Williams McGovern
Out: Dow JSOS

If McGovern plays well it could be tough for Jack coming back into the side.

Settlefield stays - has high IQ even though out of form needs to lift his tackling game which is one of his strengths.


The Guv has shown very little in the VFL from all reports, we should leave him there until he smashes the door down with his performances. I’d rather see Oscar in the seniors, he can also replace Plowman if required.


He’s kicked 6 goals in 6 quarters of footy and the club’s match report has him in our best players yesterday.


Fair enough, but 3 goals a game is hardly smashing the door down, it’s just par for the course for a guy like him.

60 goal forwards don't grow on trees & you're opposed to this one because he does it too easy?

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:53 pm 
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Serge Silvagni

Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 10:26 am
Posts: 902
Humpers wrote:
Out
Dow
Setterfield
JSos (inj)

In
Williams
Kennedy
Stocker


Good call !


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:13 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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I'm pretty sure Port haven't played at the MCG since July 2019

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:19 pm 
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Serge Silvagni

Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 10:26 am
Posts: 902
bluechampion wrote:
We're a month in now, so I think you can start to judge players with a reasonable amount of data.

I'm not as set against Dow as some others but he's averaging 12.5 disposals across the first month, and statistically speaking, his best game was his first.
Setterfield is averaging 13.7 from three games, although that's skewed slightly by a very quiet game against Collingwood.

Every other player who mostly plays midfield is putting up better numbers in the opening month, so these two are the current 'weak links' in the midfield rotation.

From all reports the next three cabs off the rank for the midfield are Kennedy, Cunningham and Stocker.
Kennedy might make us a little slow in midfield (although against a midfield featuring Wines and Boak that might not be a huge issue).
Cunningham has pace, but doesn't really play full midfield minutes, so he's not a real replacement mid.
Stocker is a big chance.

Across the rest of the ground, you can sort-of point to moments in each game where most of the current best 22 did *something* to justify their spot (although in the case of Casboult the something is being able to ruck, and generally "working hard").

However, I don't actually expect us to make four changes to a winning team, assuming JSos is out and Plowman ends up being sore. We rarely make that many changes.

In regards to Silvagni, the obvious options are McDonald, McGovern or going smaller with Cunningham. Given how tall Port play up forward, I'd be tempted by McDonald as a swingman.

If Plowman is out, I'd play McDonald for the same reasons. Port play tall up forward with Dixon, Ladhams / Marshall and Georgiades. We probably need another tall option down back. I'd also think about playing Casboult back on Dixon, but we rarely mix things up like that.


So if anyone seriously thinks that an average of 12.5 disposals over 4 games for a midfielder is OK, and one kick and 8 possessions for a midfielder against Gold Coast in a winning team is OK then they need to give me the name of their drug dealer. He must have some pretty good gear.
There are 6 players in the reserves that are better than spud Dow, but he will probably get picked again after his great one kick game on "potential", which he does not have an ounce of.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:59 pm 
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Serge Silvagni
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Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:41 pm
Posts: 971
Asp wrote:
bluechampion wrote:
We're a month in now, so I think you can start to judge players with a reasonable amount of data.

I'm not as set against Dow as some others but he's averaging 12.5 disposals across the first month, and statistically speaking, his best game was his first.
Setterfield is averaging 13.7 from three games, although that's skewed slightly by a very quiet game against Collingwood.

Every other player who mostly plays midfield is putting up better numbers in the opening month, so these two are the current 'weak links' in the midfield rotation.

From all reports the next three cabs off the rank for the midfield are Kennedy, Cunningham and Stocker.
Kennedy might make us a little slow in midfield (although against a midfield featuring Wines and Boak that might not be a huge issue).
Cunningham has pace, but doesn't really play full midfield minutes, so he's not a real replacement mid.
Stocker is a big chance.

Across the rest of the ground, you can sort-of point to moments in each game where most of the current best 22 did *something* to justify their spot (although in the case of Casboult the something is being able to ruck, and generally "working hard").

However, I don't actually expect us to make four changes to a winning team, assuming JSos is out and Plowman ends up being sore. We rarely make that many changes.

In regards to Silvagni, the obvious options are McDonald, McGovern or going smaller with Cunningham. Given how tall Port play up forward, I'd be tempted by McDonald as a swingman.

If Plowman is out, I'd play McDonald for the same reasons. Port play tall up forward with Dixon, Ladhams / Marshall and Georgiades. We probably need another tall option down back. I'd also think about playing Casboult back on Dixon, but we rarely mix things up like that.


So if anyone seriously thinks that an average of 12.5 disposals over 4 games for a midfielder is OK, and one kick and 8 possessions for a midfielder against Gold Coast in a winning team is OK then they need to give me the name of their drug dealer. He must have some pretty good gear.
There are 6 players in the reserves that are better than spud Dow, but he will probably get picked again after his great one kick game on "potential", which he does not have an ounce of.


Good call.

Slightly off topic but I reckon Mark Williams is having an influence on the 4-0 Demons.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:05 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 8243
Location: Australia
jim wrote:
Think you're trying to justify your position


Umm, why yes.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:17 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 8243
Location: Australia
Crusader wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
cecil89 wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
Walsh wrote:
Two changes for me

In: Williams McGovern
Out: Dow JSOS

If McGovern plays well it could be tough for Jack coming back into the side.

Settlefield stays - has high IQ even though out of form needs to lift his tackling game which is one of his strengths.


The Guv has shown very little in the VFL from all reports, we should leave him there until he smashes the door down with his performances. I’d rather see Oscar in the seniors, he can also replace Plowman if required.


He’s kicked 6 goals in 6 quarters of footy and the club’s match report has him in our best players yesterday.


Fair enough, but 3 goals a game is hardly smashing the door down, it’s just par for the course for a guy like him.

60 goal forwards don't grow on trees & you're opposed to this one because he does it too easy?


When has he ever kicked 60 goals in a year for us?

I’m sick of us rushing player like him into the seniors, make him earn it.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:25 pm 
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Serge Silvagni

Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 10:26 am
Posts: 902
BlueJean wrote:
Asp wrote:
bluechampion wrote:
We're a month in now, so I think you can start to judge players with a reasonable amount of data.

I'm not as set against Dow as some others but he's averaging 12.5 disposals across the first month, and statistically speaking, his best game was his first.
Setterfield is averaging 13.7 from three games, although that's skewed slightly by a very quiet game against Collingwood.

Every other player who mostly plays midfield is putting up better numbers in the opening month, so these two are the current 'weak links' in the midfield rotation.

From all reports the next three cabs off the rank for the midfield are Kennedy, Cunningham and Stocker.
Kennedy might make us a little slow in midfield (although against a midfield featuring Wines and Boak that might not be a huge issue).
Cunningham has pace, but doesn't really play full midfield minutes, so he's not a real replacement mid.
Stocker is a big chance.

Across the rest of the ground, you can sort-of point to moments in each game where most of the current best 22 did *something* to justify their spot (although in the case of Casboult the something is being able to ruck, and generally "working hard").

However, I don't actually expect us to make four changes to a winning team, assuming JSos is out and Plowman ends up being sore. We rarely make that many changes.

In regards to Silvagni, the obvious options are McDonald, McGovern or going smaller with Cunningham. Given how tall Port play up forward, I'd be tempted by McDonald as a swingman.

If Plowman is out, I'd play McDonald for the same reasons. Port play tall up forward with Dixon, Ladhams / Marshall and Georgiades. We probably need another tall option down back. I'd also think about playing Casboult back on Dixon, but we rarely mix things up like that.


So if anyone seriously thinks that an average of 12.5 disposals over 4 games for a midfielder is OK, and one kick and 8 possessions for a midfielder against Gold Coast in a winning team is OK then they need to give me the name of their drug dealer. He must have some pretty good gear.
There are 6 players in the reserves that are better than spud Dow, but he will probably get picked again after his great one kick game on "potential", which he does not have an ounce of.


Good call.

Slightly off topic but I reckon Mark Williams is having an influence on the 4-0 Demons.


Mark Williams has always had a great reputation for teaching young players the basics of the game. Can be a prickly customer but a pity pity we didn't grab him when he was available. His father Fos coached 10 or so SANFL premierships from memory and his brother coached a few as well and Mark coached the Power's first premiership against Brisbane who were going for four in a row. If Teague was to get hit by a bus Williams and Paul Roos would be at the top of my list.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:07 pm 
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Serge Silvagni
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Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:41 pm
Posts: 971
Asp wrote:
BlueJean wrote:
Asp wrote:
bluechampion wrote:
We're a month in now, so I think you can start to judge players with a reasonable amount of data.

I'm not as set against Dow as some others but he's averaging 12.5 disposals across the first month, and statistically speaking, his best game was his first.
Setterfield is averaging 13.7 from three games, although that's skewed slightly by a very quiet game against Collingwood.

Every other player who mostly plays midfield is putting up better numbers in the opening month, so these two are the current 'weak links' in the midfield rotation.

From all reports the next three cabs off the rank for the midfield are Kennedy, Cunningham and Stocker.
Kennedy might make us a little slow in midfield (although against a midfield featuring Wines and Boak that might not be a huge issue).
Cunningham has pace, but doesn't really play full midfield minutes, so he's not a real replacement mid.
Stocker is a big chance.

Across the rest of the ground, you can sort-of point to moments in each game where most of the current best 22 did *something* to justify their spot (although in the case of Casboult the something is being able to ruck, and generally "working hard").

However, I don't actually expect us to make four changes to a winning team, assuming JSos is out and Plowman ends up being sore. We rarely make that many changes.

In regards to Silvagni, the obvious options are McDonald, McGovern or going smaller with Cunningham. Given how tall Port play up forward, I'd be tempted by McDonald as a swingman.

If Plowman is out, I'd play McDonald for the same reasons. Port play tall up forward with Dixon, Ladhams / Marshall and Georgiades. We probably need another tall option down back. I'd also think about playing Casboult back on Dixon, but we rarely mix things up like that.


So if anyone seriously thinks that an average of 12.5 disposals over 4 games for a midfielder is OK, and one kick and 8 possessions for a midfielder against Gold Coast in a winning team is OK then they need to give me the name of their drug dealer. He must have some pretty good gear.
There are 6 players in the reserves that are better than spud Dow, but he will probably get picked again after his great one kick game on "potential", which he does not have an ounce of.


Good call.

Slightly off topic but I reckon Mark Williams is having an influence on the 4-0 Demons.


Mark Williams has always had a great reputation for teaching young players the basics of the game. Can be a prickly customer but a pity pity we didn't grab him when he was available. His father Fos coached 10 or so SANFL premierships from memory and his brother coached a few as well and Mark coached the Power's first premiership against Brisbane who were going for four in a row. If Teague was to get hit by a bus Williams and Paul Roos would be at the top of my list.


Agree


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:25 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:16 pm
Posts: 2770
Location: addis ababa, Ethiopia
I watched the 2's didn't really see Stocker put a stamp on it but thought Ramsey may have - stood out in the middle for me. Mc G got the 3 goals and some other nice marks but again didn't see him dominate or do much outside the occasional lead (compare with JSOS who does everything else). (Thought Crocker was better) But Mc G can kick straight and we sure need that.
What I want to see is Setters get tenacious. We heard all through pre season how strong he was - not much point if you just hover outside packs the whole time. One of the hallmarks of the better teams this year is their ferocity and Setterfield just patiently corrals giving the opposition all the time in the world.
For me
out: JSOS,
in: Williams
Swap Setterfield as the sub and bring Kennedy on.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:08 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
Posts: 3456
Asp wrote:
BlueJean wrote:
Asp wrote:
bluechampion wrote:
We're a month in now, so I think you can start to judge players with a reasonable amount of data.

I'm not as set against Dow as some others but he's averaging 12.5 disposals across the first month, and statistically speaking, his best game was his first.
Setterfield is averaging 13.7 from three games, although that's skewed slightly by a very quiet game against Collingwood.

Every other player who mostly plays midfield is putting up better numbers in the opening month, so these two are the current 'weak links' in the midfield rotation.

From all reports the next three cabs off the rank for the midfield are Kennedy, Cunningham and Stocker.
Kennedy might make us a little slow in midfield (although against a midfield featuring Wines and Boak that might not be a huge issue).
Cunningham has pace, but doesn't really play full midfield minutes, so he's not a real replacement mid.
Stocker is a big chance.

Across the rest of the ground, you can sort-of point to moments in each game where most of the current best 22 did *something* to justify their spot (although in the case of Casboult the something is being able to ruck, and generally "working hard").

However, I don't actually expect us to make four changes to a winning team, assuming JSos is out and Plowman ends up being sore. We rarely make that many changes.

In regards to Silvagni, the obvious options are McDonald, McGovern or going smaller with Cunningham. Given how tall Port play up forward, I'd be tempted by McDonald as a swingman.

If Plowman is out, I'd play McDonald for the same reasons. Port play tall up forward with Dixon, Ladhams / Marshall and Georgiades. We probably need another tall option down back. I'd also think about playing Casboult back on Dixon, but we rarely mix things up like that.


So if anyone seriously thinks that an average of 12.5 disposals over 4 games for a midfielder is OK, and one kick and 8 possessions for a midfielder against Gold Coast in a winning team is OK then they need to give me the name of their drug dealer. He must have some pretty good gear.
There are 6 players in the reserves that are better than spud Dow, but he will probably get picked again after his great one kick game on "potential", which he does not have an ounce of.


Good call.

Slightly off topic but I reckon Mark Williams is having an influence on the 4-0 Demons.


Mark Williams has always had a great reputation for teaching young players the basics of the game. Can be a prickly customer but a pity pity we didn't grab him when he was available. His father Fos coached 10 or so SANFL premierships from memory and his brother coached a few as well and Mark coached the Power's first premiership against Brisbane who were going for four in a row. If Teague was to get hit by a bus Williams and Paul Roos would be at the top of my list.


No flowering thanks-Williams loathes Carlton with a passion. Roos now a coaching consultant for hire
PASS-big time

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:14 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17552
Asp wrote:
Mark Williams has always had a great reputation for teaching young players the basics of the game. Can be a prickly customer but a pity pity we didn't grab him when he was available. His father Fos coached 10 or so SANFL premierships from memory and his brother coached a few as well and Mark coached the Power's first premiership against Brisbane who were going for four in a row. If Teague was to get hit by a bus Williams and Paul Roos would be at the top of my list.


Williams is well past it as a senior coach.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:57 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 6357
Location: Bendigo
sinbagger wrote:
Crusader wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
cecil89 wrote:
He’s kicked 6 goals in 6 quarters of footy and the club’s match report has him in our best players yesterday.


Fair enough, but 3 goals a game is hardly smashing the door down, it’s just par for the course for a guy like him.

60 goal forwards don't grow on trees & you're opposed to this one because he does it too easy?


When has he ever kicked 60 goals in a year for us?

I’m sick of us rushing player like him into the seniors, make him earn it.

Your words.

3 x 22 = get him in.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:10 am 
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Rod Ashman
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I thought Setterfield was very good when he went in at centre bounces.

As soon as he went in he got two or three clearances immediately.

That's his position...not wing.

He is too good a player to mess with.

Just get him around the ball.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:27 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17552
muzza wrote:
I thought Setterfield was very good when he went in at centre bounces.

As soon as he went in he got two or three clearances immediately.

That's his position...not wing.

He is too good a player to mess with.

Just get him around the ball.


I agree. He had the same amount of centre clearances as Cripps from very limited opportunities. 1.
It shows how reliant we've become on Cripps. The previous week he had about 7 and we dominated. The other players cant step up and fill the void if we don't give them a chance.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:40 am 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 8243
Location: Australia
Crusader wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
Crusader wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
cecil89 wrote:
He’s kicked 6 goals in 6 quarters of footy and the club’s match report has him in our best players yesterday.


Fair enough, but 3 goals a game is hardly smashing the door down, it’s just par for the course for a guy like him.

60 goal forwards don't grow on trees & you're opposed to this one because he does it too easy?


When has he ever kicked 60 goals in a year for us?

I’m sick of us rushing player like him into the seniors, make him earn it.

Your words.

3 x 22 = get him in.


Nope.

What I said was 3 x 22 in the vfl should be minimum expected for a player like him. My contention is that he should be regularly exceeding expectations before we promote him.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:42 am 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 8243
Location: Australia
Blue Vain wrote:
muzza wrote:
I thought Setterfield was very good when he went in at centre bounces.

As soon as he went in he got two or three clearances immediately.

That's his position...not wing.

He is too good a player to mess with.

Just get him around the ball.


I agree. He had the same amount of centre clearances as Cripps from very limited opportunities. 1.
It shows how reliant we've become on Cripps. The previous week he had about 7 and we dominated. The other players cant step up and fill the void if we don't give them a chance.


Agree x 2, either play him on the ball in the seniors or play him on the ball in the VFL, there’s better options for wing in the team.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:45 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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How is Eddie's groin?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:22 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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Posts: 2451
1) Get ahead of the ledger. Once we do, that will be the year we get back into the finals.
We can do that with a big effort and complete game this week.

2) 80 tackles. My primary whiteboard goal for this week (and every week):
David Parkin used to have 60 tackles as his benchmark for a win back in the 90s. We are fitter and stronger now.

3) And, whilst I have been a hopeful believer, I now think Dow needs to go back to the VFL and earn his way back for a final fling at the big time later in the season. And to do this, above any other metric, he needs to be able to consistently get 25+ possessions playing in the middle. Once he learns how to get the ball, everything will flow from there - primarily his confidence, which will itself improve his disposal (his handballs have been good lately, albeit too few...).

4) Casboult and Setterfield on notice for McGovern and Stocker. They both need to get to more contests, and deliver effectively once there.
I agree that McGovern should have to prove himself more in the VFL - if nothing else, so he really feels hatred towards ever putting himself back in the position of having to do so again.... BUT, if I honestly think about it, I am pretty sure McGovern would perform better than Levi right at the moment. And I think that Stocker would not be any worse than Setterfield when he has an off day but Setterfield is probably better on a good day. But his off days are outnumbering his good days at this point...

Out: JSOS, Dow
In: Williams, Kennedy


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:46 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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17th Premiership wrote:
1) Get ahead of the ledger. Once we do, that will be the year we get back into the finals.
We can do that with a big effort and complete game this week.

2) 80 tackles. My primary whiteboard goal for this week (and every week):
David Parkin used to have 60 tackles as his benchmark for a win back in the 90s. We are fitter and stronger now.

3) And, whilst I have been a hopeful believer, I now think Dow needs to go back to the VFL and earn his way back for a final fling at the big time later in the season. And to do this, above any other metric, he needs to be able to consistently get 25+ possessions playing in the middle. Once he learns how to get the ball, everything will flow from there - primarily his confidence, which will itself improve his disposal (his handballs have been good lately, albeit too few...).

4) Casboult and Setterfield on notice for McGovern and Stocker. They both need to get to more contests, and deliver effectively once there.
I agree that McGovern should have to prove himself more in the VFL - if nothing else, so he really feels hatred towards ever putting himself back in the position of having to do so again.... BUT, if I honestly think about it, I am pretty sure McGovern would perform better than Levi right at the moment. And I think that Stocker would not be any worse than Setterfield when he has an off day but Setterfield is probably better on a good day. But his off days are outnumbering his good days at this point...

Out: JSOS, Dow
In: Williams, Kennedy


“Kick straight” is another thing to put on the whiteboard :thumbsup:

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