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When will this team stand up???????
https://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=37159		 Page 8 of 10
Author:  AGRO [ Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When will this team stand up???????
bondiblue wrote:
AGRO wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
AGRO wrote:
It is a brilliant article - but our Board are in denial - and Mark Logudice’s eagerness for a smooth handover to someone who’s been on the Board for 8 years (no matter what his professional credentials are - and I acknowledge that they are impressive) - is not the way to go to get some meaningful change in our current malaise of mediocrity.


You're mixing off field with on field success Agro.

To win a Grand Final, all the ducks need to be in place.

I believe the off field stuff is in order and will get better.

I've learned a lot about our shortfalls after 6 rounds, and the people running the club would know more on what's needed.

Its up to them....or the ex Carlton high flying Corporate to fix the on field stuff.

Sounds a bit like the coup to overthrow the Richmond during the preseason in the year they won a Premiership.
It all looks worse when the team isn't winning on the field.




Our Board don’t have a clue about “on-field” - a good board should be able to govern over both “on-field” and “off-field”.


The Richmond coup were nuffies - our former Premiership Captain won’t be surrounded by nuffies.

:wink:


I ask you Agro, not keogh, do you think Judd is a nuffie?



I was referring to the Richmond ticket that wanted to take on their incumbent board being nuffies - and that if our former Premiership Captain won’t surround himself with nuffies if he challenges.

Judd’s not a nuffie - but whether he’s the best Football Director for us at this time remains to be seen.
Author:  bondiblue [ Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When will this team stand up???????
AGRO wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
AGRO wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
AGRO wrote:
It is a brilliant article - but our Board are in denial - and Mark Logudice’s eagerness for a smooth handover to someone who’s been on the Board for 8 years (no matter what his professional credentials are - and I acknowledge that they are impressive) - is not the way to go to get some meaningful change in our current malaise of mediocrity.


You're mixing off field with on field success Agro.

To win a Grand Final, all the ducks need to be in place.

I believe the off field stuff is in order and will get better.

I've learned a lot about our shortfalls after 6 rounds, and the people running the club would know more on what's needed.

Its up to them....or the ex Carlton high flying Corporate to fix the on field stuff.

Sounds a bit like the coup to overthrow the Richmond during the preseason in the year they won a Premiership.
It all looks worse when the team isn't winning on the field.




Our Board don’t have a clue about “on-field” - a good board should be able to govern over both “on-field” and “off-field”.


The Richmond coup were nuffies - our former Premiership Captain won’t be surrounded by nuffies.

:wink:


I ask you Agro, not keogh, do you think Judd is a nuffie?



I was referring to the Richmond ticket that wanted to take on their incumbent board being nuffies - and that if our former Premiership Captain won’t surround himself with nuffies if he challenges.

Judd’s not a nuffie - but whether he’s the best Football Director for us at this time remains to be seen.


Hey, that's a nice diplomatic response Agro.

I'm with you.

We wont know till many years after he leaves....unless ...sneaky leakers.
Author:  frank dardew [ Tue May 11, 2021 8:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When will this team stand up???????
Didnt again Sunday -recurring theme
Another quarter being the last didn’t turn up in holiday mode
Well at least it was different they usually don’t turn up in the 2nd quarter

You could smell the fear before three quarter time when Dogs kicked the last 2
Another wasted Sunday
Should have left at three quarter time like they did

If coach can’t get them to stand up pretty shortly he will cop it

Another 15 rounds where we can speculate who we might get in the draft or trade period goodie and then get to next season and IT IS NO DIFFERENT
Author:  DesEnglish [ Tue May 11, 2021 10:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When will this team stand up???????
frank dardew wrote:
Didnt again Sunday -recurring theme
Another quarter being the last didn’t turn up in holiday mode
Well at least it was different they usually don’t turn up in the 2nd quarter

You could smell the fear before three quarter time when Dogs kicked the last 2
Another wasted Sunday
Should have left at three quarter time like they did

If coach can’t get them to stand up pretty shortly he will cop it

Another 15 rounds where we can speculate who we might get in the draft or trade period goodie and then get to next season and IT IS NO DIFFERENT


Feel your pain, Frank.

Leadership is the problem, question is which bit do you fix first to get most immediate results.

Coach, assistants and one of the captains (a problem in itself in my mind) all need to be grabbed by the collar and ruffed up.
Author:  azzablue [ Tue May 11, 2021 2:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When will this team stand up???????
frank dardew wrote:
Didnt again Sunday -recurring theme
Another quarter being the last didn’t turn up in holiday mode
Well at least it was different they usually don’t turn up in the 2nd quarter

You could smell the fear before three quarter time when Dogs kicked the last 2
Another wasted Sunday
Should have left at three quarter time like they did

If coach can’t get them to stand up pretty shortly he will cop it

Another 15 rounds where we can speculate who we might get in the draft or trade period goodie and then get to next season and IT IS NO DIFFERENT


It was exactly like the freo game a month ago and only difference was that were up by 10 goals at the time , when we switched off late in the 3rd qtr and no one noticed cause we won by 6 goals and we were
Just happy to win that day
Author:  bondiblue [ Tue May 11, 2021 3:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When will this team stand up???????
azzablue wrote:
frank dardew wrote:
Didnt again Sunday -recurring theme
Another quarter being the last didn’t turn up in holiday mode
Well at least it was different they usually don’t turn up in the 2nd quarter

You could smell the fear before three quarter time when Dogs kicked the last 2
Another wasted Sunday
Should have left at three quarter time like they did

If coach can’t get them to stand up pretty shortly he will cop it

Another 15 rounds where we can speculate who we might get in the draft or trade period goodie and then get to next season and IT IS NO DIFFERENT


It was exactly like the freo game a month ago and only difference was that were up by 10 goals at the time , when we switched off late in the 3rd qtr and no one noticed cause we won by 6 goals and we were
Just happy to win that day


So true.

I can't help but think its a combo of mental and physical fitness.

Then, following todays RSN interview Doc shed light on the fact we were losing it at the stoppages and played very slow, too slow which stopped us from getting the ball quickly into our forwardline and locking it in.

Tactical question marks
Leadership to read the signs and act lacking

Physical stamina
Mental strength
Author:  frank dardew [ Sun May 16, 2021 9:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When will this team stand up???????
Not today either continuing theme
Author:  keogh [ Sun May 16, 2021 11:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When will this team stand up???????
Great article
Surely sometime in the future something will give
Author:  frank dardew [ Sun May 30, 2021 6:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When will this team stand up???????
Again the almost team does it again love honourable losses
Can someone tell them we are sick of honourable losses
Fix it quick 4 out of 11 games terrible
Author:  Heavs [ Sun May 30, 2021 6:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When will this team stand up???????
The really noticeable part for me was the Swans, who are normally all business, were lipping off and putting those extra little shots on at every opportunity. And we took it. Like they knew we would.
Author:  Adam Chatfield [ Sun May 30, 2021 7:09 pm ]
Post subject:  When will this team stand up???????
Heavs wrote:
The really noticeable part for me was the Swans, who are normally all business, were lipping off and putting those extra little shots on at every opportunity. And we took it. Like they knew we would.


Yep especially in the third, we’re the nice guys of the AFL.
Author:  Mickstar [ Sun May 30, 2021 8:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When will this team stand up???????
Don't think they are good enough to stand up.I'll admit my fault,i have operated the list.Whole lot of blokes who aint good enough.Finally the Penny has dropped with me.
Author:  bondiblue [ Sun May 30, 2021 8:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When will this team stand up???????
Mickstar wrote:
Don't think they are good enough to stand up.I'll admit my fault,i have operated the list.Whole lot of blokes who aint good enough.Finally the Penny has dropped with me.


Name them.

I'm keen to read your perspective.

I have NFI.
I can make excuses.
I can say Plowman was missed, and he was.

Who knows what would have gotten us over the line against the Sydney kids missing their 19yo rookie, Gulden.
Author:  Mickstar [ Sun May 30, 2021 9:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When will this team stand up???????
bondiblue wrote:
Mickstar wrote:
Don't think they are good enough to stand up.I'll admit my fault,i have operated the list.Whole lot of blokes who aint good enough.Finally the Penny has dropped with me.


Name them.

I'm keen to read your perspective.

I have NFI.
I can make excuses.
I can say Plowman was missed, and he was.

Who knows what would have gotten us over the line against the Sydney kids missing their 19yo rookie, Gulden.


OK i will name them..........Setts aint as good as i thought.Owies aint as good as i thought.Gibbons aint as good as i thought.Pitto aint as good as i thought..............and I'm having doubts on the two Jacks Martin and Silvagni.And Newman was atrocious today............I'm tired after that,i need more time to assess...............Reckon I'm wrong Bondi ?
Author:  bondiblue [ Tue Jun 01, 2021 10:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When will this team stand up???????
Mickstar wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Mickstar wrote:
Don't think they are good enough to stand up.I'll admit my fault,i have operated the list.Whole lot of blokes who aint good enough.Finally the Penny has dropped with me.


Name them.

I'm keen to read your perspective.

I have NFI.
I can make excuses.
I can say Plowman was missed, and he was.

Who knows what would have gotten us over the line against the Sydney kids missing their 19yo rookie, Gulden.


OK i will name them..........Setts aint as good as i thought.Owies aint as good as i thought.Gibbons aint as good as i thought.Pitto aint as good as i thought..............and I'm having doubts on the two Jacks Martin and Silvagni.And Newman was atrocious today............I'm tired after that,i need more time to assess...............Reckon I'm wrong Bondi ?


No.

I can add to that.

The beauty for me is that you weed out players not good enough, and we are left with a core group of say 15 (Charlie included). We need a group of 30 for a flag. We need to add role players and a new FB one day. A couple bonafide mids. and it may take another 2 Trade Periods, making us ready (maybe) in 2023.

We've got the basis of a good team. We have a spine and we have a competitive ruckman albit young. He needs a chop out. One good support FWD ruck to Tom to take Levi's supposed role.

Its fixable. Finals are not too far away. Top 4 is a couple years away, hopefully.
Author:  frank dardew [ Wed Jun 02, 2021 9:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When will this team stand up???????
When I originally posted this I hoped that at some stage in the season before it was too late this team would take a stand -months later still waiting for it to and looks unlikely in 2021
Thought we were on the cusp of something last year although obviously with plenty to work on in the off season and the off season produced a stronger team in my view
Begs the question what happened over the off season and how did we end up having a team win 4 games out of the first 11 being effectively beaten the same way and have the same deficiencies as last season with no semblance of any idea how to rectify the deficiencies
Another false dawn for supporters

So instead of looking forward to the next 11 games with some confidence we are now as usual looking at the MSD the return of Charlie and what the trade and draft period will bring

Disappointing and we need surely some catalytic action at Carlton the narrative has been the same disappointing benign ineptitude for 20 years

Board management coaches and team all are mediocre and need to improve dramatically in attitude and in skill base as we will stay in this holding pattern for another 20 years
The Old Carlton had grunt were ferocious in their attitude to winning and being the best this version is supine weak and far too nice
The supporters and members are sick of benign they want tough
Author:  carntheblues [ Wed Jun 02, 2021 11:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When will this team stand up???????
frank dardew wrote:
When I originally posted this I hoped that at some stage in the season before it was too late this team would take a stand -months later still waiting for it to and looks unlikely in 2021
Thought we were on the cusp of something last year although obviously with plenty to work on in the off season and the off season produced a stronger team in my view
Begs the question what happened over the off season and how did we end up having a team win 4 games out of the first 11 being effectively beaten the same way and have the same deficiencies as last season with no semblance of any idea how to rectify the deficiencies
Another false dawn for supporters

So instead of looking forward to the next 11 games with some confidence we are now as usual looking at the MSD the return of Charlie and what the trade and draft period will bring

Disappointing and we need surely some catalytic action at Carlton the narrative has been the same disappointing benign ineptitude for 20 years

Board management coaches and team all are mediocre and need to improve dramatically in attitude and in skill base as we will stay in this holding pattern for another 20 years
The Old Carlton had grunt were ferocious in their attitude to winning and being the best this version is supine weak and far too nice
The supporters and members are sick of benign they want tough


It was easy when all we had to do was roll out the checkbook and bring in more superstars. That's what we did and how the game was played in the Old days. Can't compare that to now though. Just have to have patience that with hard work and playing regularly together they gel as a cohesive team - which is hard with continuing injuries to your best 22 players. we certainly have the talent but I certainly agree with comments regarding the above the shoulders stuff - the want and willingness to bust a gut for the whole game. You would say that on the evidence only Walsh is satisfactory in this area.
Author:  Walsh [ Wed Jun 02, 2021 11:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When will this team stand up???????
Perpetual mediocrity

It must be really tempting to slap around these players for a month or until they cry to mommy.
Author:  bondiblue [ Wed Jun 02, 2021 5:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When will this team stand up???????
Good post Frank.
I'm one of those who experienced the old days.
My best mate had his jaw broken in an intra club preseason game by Wayne Harmes.
It was all part of the parcel. Ferocious for a win.

Interesting though that the players effort is not being questioned by the media.
Author:  Stranger [ Wed Jun 02, 2021 7:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When will this team stand up???????
They will stand up when we get a coach who has coached at this Level with success and is still young enough to evolve with the game (PYKE)and make weitering captain he is our most natural leader we have got other players will go to war with him and give Kennedy/Dow/SPS/LOB/ a fair crack at it in there natural positions in the middle I think will we be surprised what might happen
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