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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:33 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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kingkerna wrote:
BigGartos wrote:
dannyboy wrote:
Mckay good game - no way, not from me, yes 4 goals, but really name a goal he got because of his work, not because of the delivery...oh right that'd be the times he fell over - when he has to work, dig deep and really work, nope not in the contest - I put him on a par with Murph's efforts...just.

Don't know if you watched on tv or at ground (I went) but he was more competitive than you give him credit for: certainly more than last week.
In fact he had a great battle with Moore and I think this motivated him to be more competitive, certainly in the third quarter when he was down where I could see him.
The other big improvement from last week was backing himself to kick the goal.
Murphy on the other hand seemed to have no impact.
I went and his second efforts were non existent.

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Who do we believe?

Non existent? ARE YOU SURE? Just asking.

Conundrum

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:36 am 
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Rod Ashman
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What annoys me most of all is I stop watching football on a consistent basis two weeks into the season year after year.
I miss the 1990s when you watched the Blues every weekend.
The season is over, so the AFL I am sure would like me to be enthused by other teams.. just transfer my loyalty to another team, but I can’t.
The game is in a bad state financially and having a poor Carlton year after year isn’t “good for the game.”


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:38 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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david31 wrote:
There seems to be a disconnect between coach (or at least what the coach says) and the players.
The coach says we want to play the game in our forward half by getting it in quickly and then squeezing up the ground so the opposition can’t get the ball out of our half.
The problem is to play that way you need to (a) win the clearances to get it forward and (b) put on significant pressure to keep the ball in.
We aren’t doing either at the moment. The pressure was abysmal and when combined with our players squeezing up the ground, results in the opposition getting fast breaks into an open forward line that we can’t defend.
It beggars belief then why we continue to pick players that are conditional and not willing to tackle and pressure.
Until the midfield actually stand up and we find players willing to pressure. I fear we’re in for some massive scores against.


That's exactly how we paid for the bulk of the 3rd qtr, unfortunately bombed too many too close to the goal line instead of the hotspot

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:41 am 
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Wayne Johnston

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Disappointed we didnt take those marks we had the sit for in the 3rd. H and Cripps. Disappointed we aren't conditioned enough and stopped to a walk in the last.
I think the Press when up and running is good for pinning it in but crap for adding score. Fake momentum. Seems to wear us out and mess with out minds. If you are the opposition and you absorb it conceding only a goal or two you pretty much have us on the ropes. Once we are done banging our head against the wall and the press bit ends the rest of the game is pretty easy for the opposition.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:41 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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BigGartos wrote:
While frustrated with the loss and the inconsistent umpiring the longer the game went, I go to bed reasonably content...
Because I got to go to the MCG on a pleasant night to watch my team against the old enemy with 51,000 making lots of noise, lots of entertaining footy, some emotion and plenty of people happy to be out. The post game walk back to Flinders Street with the moon and the city lights and the bubbling sound of the throng chatting about the game, or life.
After last year in Melbourne, with no live sport and exactly one year now working alone at home...it was great to be at the footy.


I know you like a cigar and the finest whiskey, and your footy BG, but are you sure you didn't touch the Prozac.

Kidding. Last night was my reality check. I had my suspicions and I did post my doubts in Murphy, Williamson and Pitto at AFL level, and how we need to find replacements asap for Ed and Levi, but still depend on them with no alternatives on the list.

Glad you enjoyed the night and the humanity of the experience.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:46 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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bluedog wrote:
Rod Spooky Galt wrote:

Plowman's had two very poor games.




Gee...I am far from his biggest fan, but thought he played well last week.



As for tonight's game...


His best game ever last week imo ... and I have always preferred a fit Marchbank over a fit Plowman.

I don't know who Plowman was on but he seemed to have alot of different opponents: Elliot, DeGoey, Daicos.
The backline didn't look well oiled last night. I think they play too loose when defending. Jones' stupidity doesn't help Plow either.

I need to watch the game again some time today.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:48 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Walsh wrote:
McKay did well - his presence in forward 50 live was top notch by far the best tall forward on the ground.

Fogarty and McKay matching it with the best backman in the game was one of very few highlights on the night imo.


That's true to a degree, but Harry also produced the most embarrassing moments of all the forwards on the ground too....imo

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:51 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Navy Blue Horse wrote:
I think Dow is worth persisting with, but he needs to impose himself on the game more.

Late in the game, think we were 3 goals down, before their final goal. We've got the ball on HBF-wing, Southern side of ground. Dow is inside the centre square just above our CHF, reckon 40m from the kicker. Nobody within at least 20 metres of him. Didn't call for it once, jogged to a contest instead. Needs to want it.


He should be dropped for this, coz he has done that in the 2 praccy games and 2 H&A games so far this season. In other words he does this every week. If he's not fit enough to create opportunity or demand the ball, he should get fitter elsewhere, not on the big stage. IMO, he's not strong enough, nor fit enough for this level...and all the talk that his running has stepped up another level over the summer is crap, or he's not able to read the game, and if that's so, doesn't belong.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:53 am 
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Laurie Kerr

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bondiblue wrote:
BigGartos wrote:
dannyboy wrote:
Mckay good game - no way, not from me, yes 4 goals, but really name a goal he got because of his work, not because of the delivery...oh right that'd be the times he fell over - when he has to work, dig deep and really work, nope not in the contest - I put him on a par with Murph's efforts...just.

Don't know if you watched on tv or at ground (I went) but he was more competitive than you give him credit for: certainly more than last week.
In fact he had a great battle with Moore and I think this motivated him to be more competitive, certainly in the third quarter when he was down where I could see him.
The other big improvement from last week was backing himself to kick the goal.
Murphy on the other hand seemed to have no impact.


Thanks for the insight Big Gartos. I'm glad to get your perspective from the ground. Heartening TBH>

I think dannyboy and some of the others, including me, can't believe how often Harry fell over... yeah, like a drunk...he wasn't pushed, monstered...he fell over half a dozen times. Could you see why that was happening? Something heartening please. :wink:


I wish there was a stat for 'slipped over', because I'm sure it would show that Carlton players spend more time on the backsides than any other team in the comp over the past 15 years.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:55 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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I've decided I'm not going out of my way to travel to watch Carlton interstate until there's some REAL improvement in this team.

I am very disappointed we are carrying so many passengers, and this so called "fit team" can't run out games.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:00 am 
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Rod Ashman
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cecil89 wrote:
I disagree with most of this, Stranger :lol:

Stranger wrote:
I think our biggest problem is our match committee are scared to make tuff calls
Why do we play Levi is it because they want a 2nd ruckman you don’t need one
tigers haven’t played one for 4 years Kennedy should be playing Levi roll Levi was terrible tonight, but he’s very important to our structure. If he’s not in the form to play he should be replaced by McDonald, or at a stretch McGovern. It needs to be a tall forward and one who is prepared to jump at the footy in pack situations. That’s not Harry’s go, and if you replace Levi with a mid forward we lose all ability to create an aerial contest. Harry would get mauled as a result.
Murph is cooked and scared play whoever didn’t we recruit a specialist forward
in the draft so why is Murph playing that position for I would say so the don’t have
to drop him Durdin has been injured. Re Murphy, I’ve strongly defended him in recent years and stand by my thoughts that he’s earned his spot over that period. He’s only just earning it at this point, especially if some pressure comes from Cuningham, Honey, Durdin etc through the year.
Williamson is a spud should never get another game poor tonight. I’d drop him. Don’t think he’s cooked yet tho.
Doc is becoming a liability has very little defensive pressure thought he was better tonight. Still in our best setup.
Setters has gone backwards since be moved to the wing played better as a mid starting in the guts agree
They drafted Walsh to give us outside run did that in the first to years so why have they turned him
Into a inside mid when the game in now made for outside mids he’s our best mid currently. Play him where the footy is. You don’t force him to an outside role to accomate Setterfield or Dow type players.
Cripps needs to play forward to slow for the modern game what ever the wa teams offer for him I would
Take it. Cripps is not a forward. I actually think he needs to be around the ball more, not less. He’s too good not to adapt



:clap: Thank you! I feel better when someone cuts through the hysteria.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:16 am 
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Rod Ashman
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dannyboy wrote:
Mckay good game - no way, not from me, yes 4 goals, but really name a goal he got because of his work, not because of the delivery...oh right that'd be the times he fell over - when he has to work, dig deep and really work, nope not in the contest - I put him on a par with Murph's efforts...just.



That's a stupid statement. The ultimate goal of every club is to carry the ball through the middle and deliver perfectly to a forward leading into space. Wasn't that how Collingwood got all their 1st quarter goals? All forwards rely on other players further up the ground to get the ball to them. The one-on-one contests between him and Moore were great to watch and Harry at least held his own. That doesn't mean there aren't areas he can improve on. When the ball hits the ground I would like to see him harass the opposition more and throw his weight around a bit, but that doesn't take away from the good game he played last night.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:16 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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carntheblues wrote:
cecil89 wrote:
I disagree with most of this, Stranger :lol:

Stranger wrote:
I think our biggest problem is our match committee are scared to make tuff calls
Why do we play Levi is it because they want a 2nd ruckman you don’t need one
tigers haven’t played one for 4 years Kennedy should be playing Levi roll Levi was terrible tonight, but he’s very important to our structure. If he’s not in the form to play he should be replaced by McDonald, or at a stretch McGovern. It needs to be a tall forward and one who is prepared to jump at the footy in pack situations. That’s not Harry’s go, and if you replace Levi with a mid forward we lose all ability to create an aerial contest. Harry would get mauled as a result.
Murph is cooked and scared play whoever didn’t we recruit a specialist forward
in the draft so why is Murph playing that position for I would say so the don’t have
to drop him Durdin has been injured. Re Murphy, I’ve strongly defended him in recent years and stand by my thoughts that he’s earned his spot over that period. He’s only just earning it at this point, especially if some pressure comes from Cuningham, Honey, Durdin etc through the year.
Williamson is a spud should never get another game poor tonight. I’d drop him. Don’t think he’s cooked yet tho.
Doc is becoming a liability has very little defensive pressure thought he was better tonight. Still in our best setup.
Setters has gone backwards since be moved to the wing played better as a mid starting in the guts agree
They drafted Walsh to give us outside run did that in the first to years so why have they turned him
Into a inside mid when the game in now made for outside mids he’s our best mid currently. Play him where the footy is. You don’t force him to an outside role to accomate Setterfield or Dow type players.
Cripps needs to play forward to slow for the modern game what ever the wa teams offer for him I would
Take it. Cripps is not a forward. I actually think he needs to be around the ball more, not less. He’s too good not to adapt



:clap: Thank you! I feel better when someone cuts through the hysteria.


Two points I don't agree with, strongly.


Making excuses for Murphy because "he's earned a spot over that period"....Over that period he was good at times, and avearge at times. He peaked in 2011 as the MVP. We don't carry players because of what they did in the past when we lose games with them in it.

Willo, he's worse than Bower. deer in Head lights. He may not make it because we will get that 7th defender and 8th developed or traded in next year, and he wont get a look thereafter.

We have been carrying both, and of late we have also been carrying Levi, Setterfield, Dow and SPS in the backline.

I agree its up to the coaches to play players in the position we get most value. They are not getting that right...too many theories, and no plan B when the theories don't work.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:20 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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carntheblues wrote:
dannyboy wrote:
Mckay good game - no way, not from me, yes 4 goals, but really name a goal he got because of his work, not because of the delivery...oh right that'd be the times he fell over - when he has to work, dig deep and really work, nope not in the contest - I put him on a par with Murph's efforts...just.



That's a stupid statement. The ultimate goal of every club is to carry the ball through the middle and deliver perfectly to a forward leading into space. Wasn't that how Collingwood got all their 1st quarter goals? All forwards rely on other players further up the ground to get the ball to them. The one-on-one contests between him and Moore were great to watch and Harry at least held his own. That doesn't mean there aren't areas he can improve on. When the ball hits the ground I would like to see him harass the opposition more and throw his weight around a bit, but that doesn't take away from the good game he played last night.


You make a good point re role of KPF, but Mihochek also did some strong work when the ball hit the ground, Harry didn't. Hence the Pies backs ran the ball out with no pressure, see Moore.

I think dannyboy was saying what you said.

There are areas Harry needs to improve on. Holding his feet is one, and the other is keep contesting after the ball hits the ground.

4 goals is a good return in anyone's book, but there's areas he needs to improve.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:22 am 
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Rod Ashman
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BigGartos wrote:
While frustrated with the loss and the inconsistent umpiring the longer the game went, I go to bed reasonably content...
Because I got to go to the MCG on a pleasant night to watch my team against the old enemy with 51,000 making lots of noise, lots of entertaining footy, some emotion and plenty of people happy to be out. The post game walk back to Flinders Street with the moon and the city lights and the bubbling sound of the throng chatting about the game, or life.
After last year in Melbourne, with no live sport and exactly one year now working alone at home...it was great to be at the footy.



Great to hear you enjoying yourself. "Always look on the bright side". You must be a glass half full type of person so probably not the right forum for you. :smoking:


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:23 am 
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Rod Ashman
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kingkerna wrote:
Clearly you missed the parts when Moore completely outplayed him.

If we can beat Freo and Gold Coast perhaps we can relaunch the season.

Sent from my SM-G986B using Tapatalk



Clearly you missed the parts where Harry out positioned and outmarked Moore.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:25 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Navy Blue Horse wrote:
I actually thought SPS was very good after QT.


I think posters are either watching the wrong player and are confusing him. He wasn't our best but wasn't anywhere near our worst.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:26 am 
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Rod Ashman
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tap in 79 wrote:
One of the benefits of going to the game is you can see strategies and team placements more clearly.
TV viewing doesn’t give you the panoramic view.

Settlefield on the wing was devastatingly bad for the Blues.
I guess they put him there as he’s tall.. adheres to the stereotype requirements on the wing.
I watched him closely and two key turnovers in the 2nd quarter came from his fumbles/poor decisions.
On top of that, in one of the rare occasions they got it out of midfield square he hand passed to Cripps-5 metres behind him!

I would drop Settlefield and put someone with good disposals on the wing-Martin eg.



Or maybe bring in Cottrell, someone with a bit of mongrel!


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:27 am 
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Harry Vallence
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bondiblue wrote:
bluedog wrote:
Rod Spooky Galt wrote:

Plowman's had two very poor games.




Gee...I am far from his biggest fan, but thought he played well last week.



As for tonight's game...


His best game ever last week imo ... and I have always preferred a fit Marchbank over a fit Plowman.

I don't know who Plowman was on but he seemed to have alot of different opponents: Elliot, DeGoey, Daicos.
The backline didn't look well oiled last night. I think they play too loose when defending. Jones' stupidity doesn't help Plow either.

I need to watch the game again some time today.


I thought keeping Plowman on Martin too long in the last quarter was the difference in the result. No shame in getting toweled up by the best in the game, but that was Shanahan/Jarman like.

As for last night - he played on De Goey one out till Elliott got carried off, then it got a bit murky between Grundy going off the ground/Cox trucking. I thought his last quarter when he was pushed up the ground a bit more was very handy, but De Goey smacked him in that first half.

Too often, we get scored on by leaving Plowman one out against someone he's just not physically suited to minding. Martin had him for strength, De Goey had about 5m on him on the lead. It's an interesting bigger picture that we're scoring wins by having favourable matchups for Weitering, and Saad smashes them offensively, but it results in Docherty being asked to play a lot more accountable on a small forward than he's capable of, and too often leaves Plowman one out.

The issues I bring up, aren't exactly attributes that Marchbank is fantastic for either, and I don't think we can really swing bringing him in as a third tall without losing some of the above benefits. I think the solution is to move Jones into Plowman's role, as a means of eventually moving him out of the side, and play Casboult in Jones' role down back, and Oscar forward. Not the ideal scenario/solution - a makeshift defender and a makeshift forward to arguably replace our best defender of last year, but feel it makes sense holistically, given what we'd be otherwise giving up.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:34 am 
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Geoff Southby

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I said I wouldn’t post again but I can’t help myself.
Let’s be honest
If Murphy
Casboult
Setterfield
Plowman
Williamson and Dow play next week this club has officially lost the plot. Well actually it lost the plot a long time ago
At least make the players accountable for shit performances
Owies
Carroll
Cottrell
McDonald
Parks
Stocker come in
If Mc Govern is fit play him in the twos
He shouldn’t be gifted games based on reputation and a $700000 a year contract

While I am on a roll Martin has a cameo in the first half . Where was he in the second half. Unsighted. So @#$%&! overrated
I said it last year before I went away
The board is ultimately responsible for how a club functions on a field. They are outdated out of touch and simply relics from a bygone era and this is where the problem lays and we will never be a successful side until these people are held accountable and piss off
The six guys I mentioned that should come in have played well enough in the reserves practice games to warrant selection
The six guys who I want dropped simply have failed the test in the last fortnight
What will probably happen
IN McGovern, Betts
OUT Casboult, Williamson
McDonald to twiddle his thumbs again as the sub

5 spoons
13 bottom 6 finishes
4 finals one a token
No preliminary finals
In short
20 years of shit
6 years into a rebuild 10 years after our last finals appearance we serve up that crap against mediocre opposition
This all during a period of equalization
The one constant
LoGiudice
Mathieson
Pratt
Don’t worry folks
The club well get Smurph to his 300 then he will be chaired of the ground with a guard of honour to boot
When we should have retired him 3 years earlier

Don’t worry posters
I won’t frequent these parts too much
I do read some stuff on here and have a chuckle . Some posters are simply out of touch with what it takes to be a successful club in 2021
Bit like the board of directors of the Carlton Football Club


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