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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:05 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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McKay is a good player.
4 goals is a good effort when he is the obvious centre of attack and is going to be double-teamed.
He isn’t going to win every contest on a defensively minded team. Fix up the wings. That is the priority.

Settlefield is too soft and lacks skills.
Murphy is not great on the half forward flank either.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:06 pm 
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Geoff Southby

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bondiblue wrote:
kingkerna wrote:
dannyboy wrote:
Mckay good game - no way, not from me, yes 4 goals, but really name a goal he got because of his work, not because of the delivery...oh right that'd be the times he fell over - when he has to work, dig deep and really work, nope not in the contest - I put him on a par with Murph's efforts...just.
Finally someone has said it, he got well and truly pantsed tonight.

Like many others

Williamson
Murphy
Casboult

Out.

I was at the game and thought Dow is absolutely worth keeping. Fogarty was very good. Martin, Saad also good.

Weitering was shown by Moore why he isn't all Australian.



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Not being facetious. I'm really keen to hear what you saw in him.

I thought Dow did a few good things too, just don't think he's ready for this level.
IMO, needs to improve his upper body strength yto give him confidence to take on the tackler or to break lines which is what he was recruited to do. It seems to me he is desperate to get rid of the pill without taking in too much of his surrounds, and opportunities.


He barely looks any bigger or better than he did when he first came in the side in 2018.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:11 pm 
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Ken Hands

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i hope we dont bomb it long into F50 because thats how moore and coll want it . Attack starts from there defence,so wat did our coaching panel do NOTHING. Once again the club and game plan FAILED and yet nothing changed on the field that is my CONCERN


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:13 pm 
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Bob Chitty
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Adam Chatfield wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
kingkerna wrote:
dannyboy wrote:
Mckay good game - no way, not from me, yes 4 goals, but really name a goal he got because of his work, not because of the delivery...oh right that'd be the times he fell over - when he has to work, dig deep and really work, nope not in the contest - I put him on a par with Murph's efforts...just.
Finally someone has said it, he got well and truly pantsed tonight.

Like many others

Williamson
Murphy
Casboult

Out.

I was at the game and thought Dow is absolutely worth keeping. Fogarty was very good. Martin, Saad also good.

Weitering was shown by Moore why he isn't all Australian.



Sent from my SM-G986B using Tapatalk


Not being facetious. I'm really keen to hear what you saw in him.

I thought Dow did a few good things too, just don't think he's ready for this level.
IMO, needs to improve his upper body strength yto give him confidence to take on the tackler or to break lines which is what he was recruited to do. It seems to me he is desperate to get rid of the pill without taking in too much of his surrounds, and opportunities.


He barely looks any bigger or better than he did when he first came in the side in 2018.


Aaron Fiora mkII.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:14 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:14 pm
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Rod Spooky Galt wrote:
carntheblues wrote:
Can Oscar up forward play Levi's role ie smash packs? The rule changes this year appear to have had a massive impact to the game strategies and I am not sure our coaches have got it right. I was interested to hear that Clarkson has completely changed Hawthorns game plan based on the rule changes - says a lot I think. Its more important now than the last 20 years to have players who can beat their direct opponent 1 on 1 and that should be the basis of selecting the back 6. If Plowman has no winnable match up then select someone better whether it be Cottrell, Stocker, Marchbank or even Williams.


It's a fair point, but I would say that I would be more confident in his capacity to do that, than I am Levi's capacity to offer anything else in that role.

I think Oscar offers a bit more as a lead up forward - he has good leading patterns, he doesn't get in the way of Harry, he's a reliable set shot, and I'd at least say he's worth trying as the back up ruck as Levi was terrible in there.

I feel like Pittonet offered more as the pack crasher of choice last night anyway.


Levi has been rubbish/average since about r5 last year.

Maybe it’s worth giving Oscar a shot ahead of him.

Maybe Cas could benefit from VFL with his interrupted pre season.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:16 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:14 pm
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Location: Melbourne
bondiblue wrote:
https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/news/afl-round-2-carlton-v-collingwood-jamie-elliott-injury-sours-lightning-start-for-pies/news-story/79249c1220eae220e0efe7d010777c1d

Quote:
As for the rest, Lachie Plowman leaked goals for fun; Ed Curnow’s been shuffled onto a wing and isn’t anywhere near as impactful; and question marks remain on Paddy Dow and, to some degree, Sam Petrevski-Seton.

Ten Carlton players on the night were 26 or older, and another two (including medical sub Oscar McDonald) were 25. The impressive Walsh was the youngest at 20.

They’re far from over the hill, but they’re not the Baby Blues anymore.


The balance looks way out, we don’t really seem to have any idea how we are balancing midfield time, and playing Ed and setters more on the outside doesn’t work.

Either they play more inside mid or they don’t play at all. May as well play LOB and Cuningham instead.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:19 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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dannyboy wrote:
na, Moore easily beast him in the one on ones unless we hit him on the chest - why is it a beast over 203 tall cannot mark in a contest...cos he doesn't work hard, goes to ground instead. In a final if he plays like that, he will kill us but he'll go home saying I kicked 4! We've all played with that bloke and that bloke is not a great footballer.


On the positive side Danny we now have a few players that can actually hit someone on the chest

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:19 pm 
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Geoff Southby

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club29 wrote:
robertbb wrote:
CK95 wrote:
club29 wrote:
Disappointed we didnt take those marks we had the sit for in the 3rd. H and Cripps. Disappointed we aren't conditioned enough and stopped to a walk in the last.
I think the Press when up and running is good for pinning it in but crap for adding score. Fake momentum. Seems to wear us out and mess with out minds. If you are the opposition and you absorb it conceding only a goal or two you pretty much have us on the ropes. Once we are done banging our head against the wall and the press bit ends the rest of the game is pretty easy for the opposition.



I agree. We blew the game in the 3rd quarter


We blew it in the first 1.5 quarters.


I agree but I also think games at the start of seasons have a habit of having massive momentum shifts. So while we were lazy and hopeless early I was confident we would have our time. Our time was the third but like last year when we have momentum it comes in the form of a press and we pin it forward. We look completely dominant when in this mode. The opposition cant get it past half way. It is amazing... only for one thing... we dont score enough goals. It is a mirage. We really arn't dominating. The opposition sitting back restricting our scoring are in the process of seeing us off. Then we freak out mentally and run out of puff physically and it is game over.

I would love to see us dominate when it is our turn by swarming and controlling play between the arcs. Forcing turnovers between the arcs and moving it forward from there with speed and precision with space ahead of us.

I think we have the wrong gameplan or need to add some more modes to it.

Teague is happy to stick with it and sees it as our brand. He thinks we just have to do it better and for longer. I hope he right.


Our best actual period of play was later in the 2nd, where we had structure and moving the ball well.

The 3rd was decent pressure and effort wise but unstructured.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:22 pm 
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Geoff Southby

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Rod Spooky Galt wrote:
Aaron Fiora mkII.


Yep, though will be lucky to play the amount of games Fiora did


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:22 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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We were too easy to score against in the 1st quarter and then we struggled to score when we were up and going in the 3rd quarter.

Laying the blame on individuals is a bit too easy. The whole team hasn’t gelled yet.

In the most part, the effort has been OK. We looked good in the periods (eg 3rd quarter) where we rolled up our sleeves and got our knees dirty - but we lack the synergy and connection between our line areas, as well as composure at key moments, that the good teams have. Richmond & Collingwood have won finals in recent years for a reason.

I haven’t lost hope we will get there, but there’s no doubt that we have a lot of work to do still.

On a positive note, it was good to get through a week with no new injuries. We desperately need our guys to build continuity so it’s vital that they stay on the park.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:24 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:14 pm
Posts: 5451
Location: Melbourne
Navy One wrote:
dannyboy wrote:
na, Moore easily beast him in the one on ones unless we hit him on the chest - why is it a beast over 203 tall cannot mark in a contest...cos he doesn't work hard, goes to ground instead. In a final if he plays like that, he will kill us but he'll go home saying I kicked 4! We've all played with that bloke and that bloke is not a great footballer.


On the positive side Danny we now have a few players that can actually hit someone on the chest


We clearly have more skill and talent out there than we did 2-3 years ago.

That is borne out as we are in games for a lot longer.

However, Teague has not turned us into a cohesive side with a knowhow to win, yet.

Will he be able to do that? We will learn a lot over the next 20 matches.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:30 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:14 pm
Posts: 5451
Location: Melbourne
aboynamedsue wrote:
We were too easy to score against in the 1st quarter and then we struggled to score when we were up and going in the 3rd quarter.

Laying the blame on individuals is a bit too easy. The whole team hasn’t gelled yet.

In the most part, the effort has been OK. We looked good in the periods (eg 3rd quarter) where we rolled up our sleeves and got our knees dirty - but we lack the synergy and connection between our line areas, as well as composure at key moments, that the good teams have. Richmond & Collingwood have won finals in recent years for a reason.

I haven’t lost hope we will get there, but there’s no doubt that we have a lot of work to do still.

On a positive note, it was good to get through a week with no new injuries. We desperately need our guys to build continuity so it’s vital that they stay on the park.


No new injuries and JSOS hopefully comes in which will help, based on how he’s impressed in the st kilda and first half of tigers game


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:31 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Adam Chatfield wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
It’s pretty sad that at no time this game or last game did I think we might win.


It had a similar vibe in that you feel there are leaders at both Tigers and Pies who are born winners and/or have a bit of mongrel about them. So at any given moment when the game was on the line you have guys like Pendels, Sidebottom, De Goey and Moore who could do something inspirational to change the momentum.

We simply don't have that, Cripps battled but looked banged up, or out of sorts. Only ones who look like being that for us are Walsh and Weiters. Williams tried hard too.

But yes still seems the same for us, the lack of leadership and no genuine belief they are good enough.

Maybe that will come, but its been missing the last 2 weeks.
Sadly.. We were never in it...
Agree here, we don't have anyone 'stepping up' when the pressure is on.

Go Blues

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:39 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 1:40 pm
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We looked flat at the start, then we got into it... then we had a classic Carlton quarter where we worked our butts off for moderate reward... and then we were done and didn't fire a shot in the last. This sounds a lot like the last time we played Collingwood, you know.

Really, the forwards played okay and the defence played okay. As always, it's the mids.

McKay, Martin, Gibbons, Fisher, Fogarty... they all played mostly forward, and they kicked the goals. We got one goal from a mid, and that was Pittonet.

Docherty, Newnes, Fisher and Gibbons didn't lay a tackle. Murphy, Casboult, Saad, Weitering, SPS and Williamson laid one each.

Setterfield, Pittonet, Jones, Casboult and Williamson got under 10 touches each. Willo had five disposals for the night - the same as Jamie Elliott who only played half a game due to injury.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:43 pm 
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Trevor Keogh

Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:49 pm
Posts: 793
Navy Blue Horse wrote:
david31 wrote:
There seems to be a disconnect between coach (or at least what the coach says) and the players.
The coach says we want to play the game in our forward half by getting it in quickly and then squeezing up the ground so the opposition can’t get the ball out of our half.
The problem is to play that way you need to (a) win the clearances to get it forward and (b) put on significant pressure to keep the ball in.
We aren’t doing either at the moment. The pressure was abysmal and when combined with our players squeezing up the ground, results in the opposition getting fast breaks into an open forward line that we can’t defend.
It beggars belief then why we continue to pick players that are conditional and not willing to tackle and pressure.
Until the midfield actually stand up and we find players willing to pressure. I fear we’re in for some massive scores against.


That's exactly how we paid for the bulk of the 3rd qtr, unfortunately bombed too many too close to the goal line instead of the hotspot


In the third quarter I was yelling at the telly "for christ sake open up the forward line, lead up the ground, give the player with the ball options to kick to". I wonder if it is a lack of confidence. "If I lead out and screw up I'll be lambasted. I'll just sit back here deep in attack, I might pick up an easy kick or two off the pack."


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:47 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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robertbb wrote:
CK95 wrote:
club29 wrote:
Disappointed we didnt take those marks we had the sit for in the 3rd. H and Cripps. Disappointed we aren't conditioned enough and stopped to a walk in the last.
I think the Press when up and running is good for pinning it in but crap for adding score. Fake momentum. Seems to wear us out and mess with out minds. If you are the opposition and you absorb it conceding only a goal or two you pretty much have us on the ropes. Once we are done banging our head against the wall and the press bit ends the rest of the game is pretty easy for the opposition.



I agree. We blew the game in the 3rd quarter


We blew it in the first 1.5 quarters.
Yep, didn't want it enough in the first... Lost almost every contest if it hit the ground.. Game over..
Chasing tail for the rest of the game.
Also many dumb decisions... Poor Newnes.. Free link up on the wing and RARELY used (not sure who was on him, but he only seemed to be near someone when he went to them)...
His mark of the night... Yep.. After he'd been ignored,.. went into the 50 in a, huge outnumber and it was coming out.. to the wing, where he was free to run for the speccy....

Haven't seen the free, but hope it was a solid one....

Even Pies supporters around us were saying you can't NOT PAY marks like that.... Whatever happened wouldn't have stopped that grab!

Go Blues

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:55 pm 
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Trevor Keogh
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I've been a fan of Levi. Great guy who never drops his head but maybe he needs a run in the twos or put him down back when jsos returns.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 2:02 pm 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 6:11 pm
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Another disappointing night at the footy.
I really missed going last year but at least I could turn the TV off.
So frustrating to watch.
How many more decades do we have to suffer before we see improvement?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 2:06 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 15088
Adam Chatfield wrote:
Rod Spooky Galt wrote:
carntheblues wrote:
Can Oscar up forward play Levi's role ie smash packs? The rule changes this year appear to have had a massive impact to the game strategies and I am not sure our coaches have got it right. I was interested to hear that Clarkson has completely changed Hawthorns game plan based on the rule changes - says a lot I think. Its more important now than the last 20 years to have players who can beat their direct opponent 1 on 1 and that should be the basis of selecting the back 6. If Plowman has no winnable match up then select someone better whether it be Cottrell, Stocker, Marchbank or even Williams.


It's a fair point, but I would say that I would be more confident in his capacity to do that, than I am Levi's capacity to offer anything else in that role.

I think Oscar offers a bit more as a lead up forward - he has good leading patterns, he doesn't get in the way of Harry, he's a reliable set shot, and I'd at least say he's worth trying as the back up ruck as Levi was terrible in there.

I feel like Pittonet offered more as the pack crasher of choice last night anyway.


Levi has been rubbish/average since about r5 last year.

Maybe it’s worth giving Oscar a shot ahead of him.

Maybe Cas could benefit from VFL with his interrupted pre season.


Levi is a good player but it was obvious in round 1 that he is well underprepared. Playing him ahead of McDonald was a massive @#$%&! up by the coaches.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 2:16 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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We are soft and predictable and have been for a very long time ... pathetic ...

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