TalkingCarlton
https://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

List Management 2021
https://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=37110		 Page 27 of 76
Author:  jamespul65 [ Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: List Management 2021
sos has really stuffed the club up with poor recruiting ,sps,lob,dow they look like u18 players (how many years in system now) now gws setters ,plowman,kennedy,marchbank, just saying
Author:  TheDenominator [ Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: List Management 2021
Blue Vain wrote:
Carroll played his first decent game. Let the kid find his feet before we throw him to the wolves.



This times a million. Let Carroll, Kemp,Durdin & co develop in the VFL for the rest of the year. Current team performance and the flux we are in would make it tough for a newbie. Could well destroy their confidence

Classic Carlton fan behaviour though...demand to play young kids, young kid plays and is overwhelmed largely due to circumstance i.e. team is going like shit. Gets dropped. Carlton fan complains about our recruiting and development.
Author:  muzza [ Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: List Management 2021
jamespul65 wrote:
sos has really stuffed the club up with poor recruiting ,sps,lob,dow they look like u18 players (how many years in system now) now gws setters ,plowman,kennedy,marchbank, just saying

Recruiting is far from an exact science.....and SOS did OK.

It's largely about the environment in which they come into that determines success or failure.

All of these players you mention would be flourishing....well at least doing better, within a very successful system.

It's anomalies like Walsh who have navigated it better than others.
Author:  Sidefx [ Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: List Management 2021
muzza wrote:
jamespul65 wrote:
sos has really stuffed the club up with poor recruiting ,sps,lob,dow they look like u18 players (how many years in system now) now gws setters ,plowman,kennedy,marchbank, just saying

Recruiting is far from an exact science.....and SOS did OK.

It's largely about the environment in which they come into that determines success or failure.

All of these players you mention would be flourishing....well at least doing better, within a very successful system.

It's anomalies like Walsh who have navigated it better than others.

And that's exactly it.
:clap:
Author:  Walsh [ Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: List Management 2021
So what about our other youngsters like Weitering that Bolton almost destroyed....Owies, Stocker, McKay why are they flourishing and those that werent given time to develop are deteriorating
Author:  WOW [ Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: List Management 2021
muzza wrote:
jamespul65 wrote:
sos has really stuffed the club up with poor recruiting ,sps,lob,dow they look like u18 players (how many years in system now) now gws setters ,plowman,kennedy,marchbank, just saying

Recruiting is far from an exact science.....and SOS did OK.

It's largely about the environment in which they come into that determines success or failure.

All of these players you mention would be flourishing....well at least doing better, within a very successful system.

It's anomalies like Walsh who have navigated it better than others.


Spot on. Culture and system are the keys.

Talent only gets you so far. Game has become too sophisticated to rely on individual talent.
Author:  Donstuie [ Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: List Management 2021
muzza wrote:
jamespul65 wrote:
sos has really stuffed the club up with poor recruiting ,sps,lob,dow they look like u18 players (how many years in system now) now gws setters ,plowman,kennedy,marchbank, just saying

Recruiting is far from an exact science.....and SOS did OK.

It's largely about the environment in which they come into that determines success or failure.

All of these players you mention would be flourishing....well at least doing better, within a very successful system.

It's anomalies like Walsh who have navigated it better than others.

I'll say it until I'm blue in the face (because I'm always ignored when I raise this), but no amount of revisionist history will change the fact that those 'duds' we recruited would most likely have been taken by any recruiter with the same picks, or immediately after us had we passed on them. They were all picked when they were expected to be picked at time time, as were those we traded for.

SOS was far from perfect as a recruiter, but what happened to these blokes after they got here has nothing to do with him.
Author:  Walsh [ Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: List Management 2021
You are right it wasn't the picks they all had natural raw talent. Its just the bar of expectation was set too high too soon rather than a gradual build up. Their development has been nothing short of disgraceful, what targets do they have to hit now to keep building confidence and belief.. thats what happens with supercoaches sent from the gods.
Author:  frank dardew [ Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: List Management 2021
Gee aren’t we lucky that we got rid of Bolton destroying young talent and we got Teague who has been so good developing our players young or old :eek:
His game plan is so good that our best player Cripps has gone backwards and quality players who have played very good finals footy in Williams and Saad look ordinary when they are playing for us

Unbelievable you throw Bolton under the bus but think Teague is good 4-13 isn’t good with the list he has

You think Dow is no good who has been in charge for 2 years who is in charge of the inept game plan and developing young players
Who refuses to rotate young players through the midfield
Who wanted Eddie back and played Murphy and Casboult when they were underperforming
Who kept giving McGovern a leave pass for getting a handful of possession s a game last year
Who has a team that does not even know what the word defend means
Who has final say in whether TDK and Pitto play in the same team

If the coach isn’t responsible for all this why are we paying him
Author:  frank dardew [ Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: List Management 2021
Agree Walsh and Weitering are outliers they would have made it any where and were largely no 1 picks on that basis
Author:  bmaurizio [ Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: List Management 2021
muzza wrote:
jamespul65 wrote:
sos has really stuffed the club up with poor recruiting ,sps,lob,dow they look like u18 players (how many years in system now) now gws setters ,plowman,kennedy,marchbank, just saying

Recruiting is far from an exact science.....and SOS did OK.

It's largely about the environment in which they come into that determines success or failure.

All of these players you mention would be flourishing....well at least doing better, within a very successful system.

It's anomalies like Walsh who have navigated it better than others.


Spot on , nailed it, Sam Walsh is an elite , thence an anomaly and handle our somewhat dysfunctional environment no matter .
Image Sam playing in a successful system.?
Author:  keogh [ Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: List Management 2021
Donstuie wrote:
muzza wrote:
jamespul65 wrote:
sos has really stuffed the club up with poor recruiting ,sps,lob,dow they look like u18 players (how many years in system now) now gws setters ,plowman,kennedy,marchbank, just saying

Recruiting is far from an exact science.....and SOS did OK.

It's largely about the environment in which they come into that determines success or failure.

All of these players you mention would be flourishing....well at least doing better, within a very successful system.

It's anomalies like Walsh who have navigated it better than others.

I'll say it until I'm blue in the face (because I'm always ignored when I raise this), but no amount of revisionist history will change the fact that those 'duds' we recruited would most likely have been taken by any recruiter with the same picks, or immediately after us had we passed on them. They were all picked when they were expected to be picked at time time, as were those we traded for.

SOS was far from perfect as a recruiter, but what happened to these blokes after they got here has nothing to do with him.

I’ll say it till I’m blue in the face
Silvangi wouldn’t know a good mid if he fell over one
Not to mention the McGovern trade the Setterfield trade after the worst year in the club’s history in 2018
And all the spuds he got from GWS so he could prove himself to be in the right

He was handed the job because of his name and being a mate of the President
He did a shit job then cracks the shits with everyone because people question what he does and tips the bucket on the club on live radio
Most of the players he recruited would have been crap anywhere else
Stop defending the indefensible
It’s pathetic
Author:  bmaurizio [ Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: List Management 2021
keogh wrote:
Donstuie wrote:
muzza wrote:
jamespul65 wrote:
sos has really stuffed the club up with poor recruiting ,sps,lob,dow they look like u18 players (how many years in system now) now gws setters ,plowman,kennedy,marchbank, just saying

Recruiting is far from an exact science.....and SOS did OK.

It's largely about the environment in which they come into that determines success or failure.

All of these players you mention would be flourishing....well at least doing better, within a very successful system.

It's anomalies like Walsh who have navigated it better than others.

I'll say it until I'm blue in the face (because I'm always ignored when I raise this), but no amount of revisionist history will change the fact that those 'duds' we recruited would most likely have been taken by any recruiter with the same picks, or immediately after us had we passed on them. They were all picked when they were expected to be picked at time time, as were those we traded for.

SOS was far from perfect as a recruiter, but what happened to these blokes after they got here has nothing to do with him.

I’ll say it till I’m blue in the face
Silvangi wouldn’t know a good mid if he fell over one
Not to mention the McGovern trade the Setterfield trade after the worst year in the club’s history in 2018
And all the spuds he got from GWS so he could prove himself to be in the right

He was handed the job because of his name and being a mate of the President
He did a shit job then cracks the shits with everyone because people question what he does and tips the bucket on the club on live radio
Most of the players he recruited would have been crap anywhere else
Stop defending the indefensible
It’s pathetic

Agree with you totally , this has got to register with the executive, because over the last two decades they’ve been irresponsible & lacking in due diligence.
Stop administrative interference in football , recruiting and drafting & development arenas
They’re out of bounds , suggestions & opinions welcome , but final decision must be taken by specialist , experienced heads of departments. Otherwise we ain’t going anywhere fast.
Author:  keogh [ Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: List Management 2021
The List Manager is the most important footy person at an AFL club these days
The 2 best ones are Matthew Clarke and Stephen Wells
Stephen Wells took temporary leave from Geelong
I certainly would make a pitch for him in some capacity
The guy is the reason Geelong hasn’t dipped in the last 15 seasons
He is a genius
Author:  WOW [ Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: List Management 2021
keogh wrote:
The List Manager is the most important footy person at an AFL club these days
The 2 best ones are Matthew Clarke and Stephen Wells
Stephen Wells took temporary leave from Geelong
I certainly would make a pitch for him in some capacity
The guy is the reason Geelong hasn’t dipped in the last 15 seasons
He is a genius


Geelong has been great because they have a great culture and systems. Their players are drilled and make ordinary players into good players. It is the difference between great and ordinary clubs. Haven’t relied on early draft picks to build sustained success. Player and game development is always more important than recruiting. Although not saying recruiting is not an important aspect of success.
Author:  keogh [ Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: List Management 2021
WOW wrote:
keogh wrote:
The List Manager is the most important footy person at an AFL club these days
The 2 best ones are Matthew Clarke and Stephen Wells
Stephen Wells took temporary leave from Geelong
I certainly would make a pitch for him in some capacity
The guy is the reason Geelong hasn’t dipped in the last 15 seasons
He is a genius


Geelong has been great because they have a great culture and systems. Their players are drilled and make ordinary players into good players. It is the difference between great and ordinary clubs. Haven’t relied on early draft picks to build sustained success. Player and game development is always more important than recruiting. Although not saying recruiting is not an important aspect of success.

Disagree entirely
Author:  sinbagger [ Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:55 pm ]
Post subject:  List Management 2021
keogh wrote:
WOW wrote:
keogh wrote:
The List Manager is the most important footy person at an AFL club these days
The 2 best ones are Matthew Clarke and Stephen Wells
Stephen Wells took temporary leave from Geelong
I certainly would make a pitch for him in some capacity
The guy is the reason Geelong hasn’t dipped in the last 15 seasons
He is a genius


Geelong has been great because they have a great culture and systems. Their players are drilled and make ordinary players into good players. It is the difference between great and ordinary clubs. Haven’t relied on early draft picks to build sustained success. Player and game development is always more important than recruiting. Although not saying recruiting is not an important aspect of success.

Disagree entirely


Explain Henderson.
Author:  17th Premiership [ Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: List Management 2021
WOW wrote:
keogh wrote:
The List Manager is the most important footy person at an AFL club these days
The 2 best ones are Matthew Clarke and Stephen Wells
Stephen Wells took temporary leave from Geelong
I certainly would make a pitch for him in some capacity
The guy is the reason Geelong hasn’t dipped in the last 15 seasons
He is a genius


Geelong has been great because they have a great culture and systems. Their players are drilled and make ordinary players into good players. It is the difference between great and ordinary clubs. Haven’t relied on early draft picks to build sustained success. Player and game development is always more important than recruiting. Although not saying recruiting is not an important aspect of success.


I agree with this - it’s also why Sydney and Hawthorn have done so well for so long. It is no coincidence that Sydney is still regenerating quickly with leaders like Kennedy, Parker and Buddy still amongst it; whereas Hawthorn has finally fallen away after Hodge, Roughead who were the last of that group left. And Geelong keeps going with Selwood and Hawkins still in the thick of it.

LOB was certainly a roughie but everyone had a blanket over Dow, LDU and Cerra.
And on that, why do we seem to be going hard for Cerra?? That looks to be one of the weakest drafts at the top end and I don’t see Cerra as a budding superstar.
Author:  keogh [ Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: List Management 2021
sinbagger wrote:
keogh wrote:
WOW wrote:
keogh wrote:
The List Manager is the most important footy person at an AFL club these days
The 2 best ones are Matthew Clarke and Stephen Wells
Stephen Wells took temporary leave from Geelong
I certainly would make a pitch for him in some capacity
The guy is the reason Geelong hasn’t dipped in the last 15 seasons
He is a genius


Geelong has been great because they have a great culture and systems. Their players are drilled and make ordinary players into good players. It is the difference between great and ordinary clubs. Haven’t relied on early draft picks to build sustained success. Player and game development is always more important than recruiting. Although not saying recruiting is not an important aspect of success.

Disagree entirely


Explain Henderson.


Henderson always had talent
He showed it in games as at Carlton
He was in a shit team and he wanted to go home
He is a Geelong boy. He also had a lot of injuries
He showed something at Carlton

What has Dow showed?
Granted a player like Henderson will play better in a better side
But where did all the other players come from
How does a guy like Stewart go unnoticed
There is no excuse just because he played down the road at South Barwon
How did they get Cameron
Because 17 other clubs missed on Kelly and when he came back west Geelong were well and truly compensated with draft picks which they used in Cameron
South Fremantle is a pretty well known club

The most important person in a footy sense is the List Manager
All Carlton supporters should be told with transparency whose idea was it to get and pay Williams Martin Saad
Otherwise a review is a waste of time
And why Pavlich
Smart guy
Knows footy
But lives in the west and reads the news
He is the first to admit he doesn’t know much about what the Blues have done
Author:  carntheblues [ Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: List Management 2021
keogh wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
keogh wrote:
WOW wrote:
keogh wrote:
The List Manager is the most important footy person at an AFL club these days
The 2 best ones are Matthew Clarke and Stephen Wells
Stephen Wells took temporary leave from Geelong
I certainly would make a pitch for him in some capacity
The guy is the reason Geelong hasn’t dipped in the last 15 seasons
He is a genius


Geelong has been great because they have a great culture and systems. Their players are drilled and make ordinary players into good players. It is the difference between great and ordinary clubs. Haven’t relied on early draft picks to build sustained success. Player and game development is always more important than recruiting. Although not saying recruiting is not an important aspect of success.

Disagree entirely


Explain Henderson.


Henderson always had talent
He showed it in games as at Carlton
He was in a shit team and he wanted to go home
He is a Geelong boy. He also had a lot of injuries
He showed something at Carlton

What has Dow showed?
Granted a player like Henderson will play better in a better side
But where did all the other players come from
How does a guy like Stewart go unnoticed
There is no excuse just because he played down the road at South Barwon
How did they get Cameron
Because 17 other clubs missed on Kelly and when he came back west Geelong were well and truly compensated with draft picks which they used in Cameron
South Fremantle is a pretty well known club

The most important person in a footy sense is the List Manager
All Carlton supporters should be told with transparency whose idea was it to get and pay Williams Martin Saad
Otherwise a review is a waste of time
And why Pavlich
Smart guy
Knows footy
But lives in the west and reads the news
He is the first to admit he doesn’t know much about what the Blues have done



I disagree entirely. Supporters don't need to be told anything. Members maybe a little more but certainly not airing in public conversations regarding strategies etc. What's the point - we know that some people will agree and some will disagree, it serves absolutely no purpose other than to provide some people with an "I told you so" , "see I was right" opportunity. We deserve a general explanation of what is happening and the details stay behind closed doors. The only likely outcome is a club where no-one speaks internally as anything they say will be broadcast externally and what message does that send to the players - are their reviews to be made public?
And on Pavlich, given the news in the west is always about the west I don't think he will have read anything other than what he has already been told from the club and the fact he knows nothing of the what we have done I think makes him perfect for reviewing Carlton, no preconceived expectations.
Page 27 of 76 All times are UTC + 10 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/