TalkingCarlton :: View topic - List Management 2021

Donstuie wrote:

Anyone questioning whether drafting or development is the biggest issue, only needs to look back to where the kids were expected to go before the draft. Calling them busts now is easy to do in hindsight.

Who?

Philp. Went earlier than expected. Silvagni thought his late season form was very good in the under 18's and pushed him in to contention.
17 other recruiters probably realised it's easier to shine when the best players are absent playing in the championships. Apparently Richmond were ready too pounce. :sly:

Ramsay. Ditto Philp. SOS was impressed that his late season form was much better. :donk:

Stocker. A surprise early selection but apparently Richmond were ready to pounce. :screwy:

And how none of them to date realised we need a project ruckman is beyond me.

Donstuie wrote:

Ramsay. Ditto Philp. SOS was impressed that his late season form was much better. :donk:

Stocker. A surprise early selection but apparently Richmond were ready to pounce. :screwy:

And how none of them to date realised we need a project ruckman is beyond me.

This analysis tells me that the top kids we drafted were ‘right’ at the time but have clearly been poorly developed, while things are a bit greyer when it comes to later picks.

Blue Vain wrote:

Donstuie wrote:

Ramsay. Ditto Philp. SOS was impressed that his late season form was much better. :donk:

Stocker. A surprise early selection but apparently Richmond were ready to pounce. :screwy:

And how none of them to date realised we need a project ruckman is beyond me.

Ditto...and you can add a young KPD
If one of Weitering or Jones is injured WhoTF replaces them?

Blue Vain wrote:

Donstuie wrote:

Ramsay. Ditto Philp. SOS was impressed that his late season form was much better. :donk:

Stocker. A surprise early selection but apparently Richmond were ready to pounce. :screwy:

And how none of them to date realised we need a project ruckman is beyond me.

I love it how you ignored this bit...

Quote:

This analysis tells me that the top kids we drafted were ‘right’ at the time but have clearly been poorly developed, while things are a bit greyer when it comes to later picks.

Media is an opinion based business.

Cripps, Ed, Walsh, Zac, Fog these blokes are sound contested players.

We more than matched Port in clearances and contested possessions. Nick Riewoldt is a bit of a wanker anyway.

We get done on the spread and disposal efficiency. Not contested work.

Looks like we need to hope that second wave of youth - Stocker, Kemp, TDK, Philp and of course Walsh - can make the grade.

Paddycripps wrote:

Looks like we need to hope that second wave of youth - Stocker, Kemp, TDK, Philp and of course Walsh - can make the grade.

The third wave, under the Austin era, might be the one we’re turning to. Carroll, Durdin, Parks and future draftees.
What gives me some hope is that the future crop will join a club with at least a solid foundation of talent. They’ll join Cripps, Walsh, Weitering, McKay, Saad, Williams and to a less extent Fisher, SPS, Martin, C Curnow and others we know to at least be solid AFL players.
Our draftees of yesteryear, including the above mentioned, really had very few players to guide the way for them.

Paddycripps wrote:

Looks like we need to hope that second wave of youth - Stocker, Kemp, TDK, Philp and of course Walsh - can make the grade.

cecil89 wrote:

Paddycripps wrote:

Looks like we need to hope that second wave of youth - Stocker, Kemp, TDK, Philp and of course Walsh - can make the grade.

Agree, club may have to go through a reset to realise it’s ambitions

We are still 4 - 6 quality players short, particularly in the midfield

We now have a solid core of experienced players but time stands still for no one

Would want to be in the top four within the next 2 - 3 years to ensure the playing group is peaking at the right time.

Actually a good article in the HUN today.

To paraphrase: old guys deteriorating with no expectation of improvement and/or mediocre players so why are they being played instead of youngsters in the reserves who are showing signs of form.

Walsh wrote:

So other than being unable to defend the spread, unable to get loose on the spread offensively, and unable to hit a target, our midfield are going dynamite?

Facetiousness aside, we absolutely lack some balanced midfielders who can play inside and out. Too many contested players and then a sprinkling of outside players who don’t get their hands dirty. No balance.

Author:	99prelim [ Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2021
Blue Vain wrote: Donstuie wrote: Anyone questioning whether drafting or development is the biggest issue, only needs to look back to where the kids were expected to go before the draft. Calling them busts now is easy to do in hindsight. Who? Philp. Went earlier than expected. Silvagni thought his late season form was very good in the under 18's and pushed him in to contention. 17 other recruiters probably realised it's easier to shine when the best players are absent playing in the championships. Apparently Richmond were ready too pounce. Ramsay. Ditto Philp. SOS was impressed that his late season form was much better. Stocker. A surprise early selection but apparently Richmond were ready to pounce. And how none of them to date realised we need a project ruckman is beyond me. Ditto...and you can add a young KPD If one of Weitering or Jones is injured WhoTF replaces them?

Author:	Donstuie [ Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2021
Blue Vain wrote: Donstuie wrote: Anyone questioning whether drafting or development is the biggest issue, only needs to look back to where the kids were expected to go before the draft. Calling them busts now is easy to do in hindsight. Who? Philp. Went earlier than expected. Silvagni thought his late season form was very good in the under 18's and pushed him in to contention. 17 other recruiters probably realised it's easier to shine when the best players are absent playing in the championships. Apparently Richmond were ready too pounce. Ramsay. Ditto Philp. SOS was impressed that his late season form was much better. Stocker. A surprise early selection but apparently Richmond were ready to pounce. And how none of them to date realised we need a project ruckman is beyond me. I love it how you ignored this bit... Quote: This analysis tells me that the top kids we drafted were ‘right’ at the time but have clearly been poorly developed, while things are a bit greyer when it comes to later picks.

Author:	bluedog [ Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2021
99prelim wrote: Blue Vain wrote: Donstuie wrote: Anyone questioning whether drafting or development is the biggest issue, only needs to look back to where the kids were expected to go before the draft. Calling them busts now is easy to do in hindsight. Who? Philp. Went earlier than expected. Silvagni thought his late season form was very good in the under 18's and pushed him in to contention. 17 other recruiters probably realised it's easier to shine when the best players are absent playing in the championships. Apparently Richmond were ready too pounce. Ramsay. Ditto Philp. SOS was impressed that his late season form was much better. Stocker. A surprise early selection but apparently Richmond were ready to pounce. And how none of them to date realised we need a project ruckman is beyond me. Ditto...and you can add a young KPD If one of Weitering or Jones is injured WhoTF replaces them? Casboult?

Author:	Blue Vain [ Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:02 am ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2021
Donstuie wrote: Blue Vain wrote: Donstuie wrote: Anyone questioning whether drafting or development is the biggest issue, only needs to look back to where the kids were expected to go before the draft. Calling them busts now is easy to do in hindsight. Who? Philp. Went earlier than expected. Silvagni thought his late season form was very good in the under 18's and pushed him in to contention. 17 other recruiters probably realised it's easier to shine when the best players are absent playing in the championships. Apparently Richmond were ready too pounce. Ramsay. Ditto Philp. SOS was impressed that his late season form was much better. Stocker. A surprise early selection but apparently Richmond were ready to pounce. And how none of them to date realised we need a project ruckman is beyond me. I love it how you ignored this bit... Quote: This analysis tells me that the top kids we drafted were ‘right’ at the time but have clearly been poorly developed, while things are a bit greyer when it comes to later picks. I didn't ignore it at all. I gave reasons why I believe the reasoning behind the selections was flawed. And it's not hindsight. I expressed the same concerns at the time. Philp and Stocker are top 20 picks. Neither were expected to go that early as you asserted. I'm not saying they cant be good AFL players but the selection explanations forwarded by SOS were farcical. Just my opinion.

Author:	Effes [ Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2021
Nick Riewoldt: "They've got the thinnest midfield in the comp"

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Author:	grrofunger [ Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2021
We could have a "thicker" midfield if we didn't try and turn midfielders into small forwards/defenders

Author:	Walsh [ Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:55 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2021
Media is an opinion based business. Cripps, Ed, Walsh, Zac, Fog these blokes are sound contested players. We more than matched Port in clearances and contested possessions. Nick Riewoldt is a bit of a wanker anyway. We get done on the spread and disposal efficiency. Not contested work.

Author:	Effes [ Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2021
Fisher has not shown he can make it as a midfielder. Look at Cripps ball use. Look at Ed's ball use. Also, we are still so dependent on him. Fogarty is a HFF - how many centre bounces has he attended? How many CB did Fisher attend before injury?

Author:	Walsh [ Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2021
Some of our players have concentration levels of an ant... Willo, SPS, Gibbons, Cotrell, Kennedy to name a few. These guys will play well when our leaders play well.... not when Jones, Docherty, Cripps, Murphy are stinking it up and need to lead from the front Cripps is trying he really is and will never stop trying....but its always going to be the leaders that are going to set the tone... they're the ones in match committee meetings and high end meetings and what not. If they stink it up what hope do players with concentration levels of an ant have.

Author:	cecil89 [ Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2021
Walsh wrote: Media is an opinion based business. Cripps, Ed, Walsh, Zac, Fog these blokes are sound contested players. We more than matched Port in clearances and contested possessions. Nick Riewoldt is a bit of a wanker anyway. We get done on the spread and disposal efficiency. Not contested work. So other than being unable to defend the spread, unable to get loose on the spread offensively, and unable to hit a target, our midfield are going dynamite? Facetiousness aside, we absolutely lack some balanced midfielders who can play inside and out. Too many contested players and then a sprinkling of outside players who don’t get their hands dirty. No balance.

Author:	Paddycripps [ Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2021
Looks like we need to hope that second wave of youth - Stocker, Kemp, TDK, Philp and of course Walsh - can make the grade.

Author:	cecil89 [ Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2021
Paddycripps wrote: Looks like we need to hope that second wave of youth - Stocker, Kemp, TDK, Philp and of course Walsh - can make the grade. The third wave, under the Austin era, might be the one we’re turning to. Carroll, Durdin, Parks and future draftees. What gives me some hope is that the future crop will join a club with at least a solid foundation of talent. They’ll join Cripps, Walsh, Weitering, McKay, Saad, Williams and to a less extent Fisher, SPS, Martin, C Curnow and others we know to at least be solid AFL players. Our draftees of yesteryear, including the above mentioned, really had very few players to guide the way for them.

Author:	bmaurizio [ Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2021
cecil89 wrote: Paddycripps wrote: Looks like we need to hope that second wave of youth - Stocker, Kemp, TDK, Philp and of course Walsh - can make the grade. The third wave, under the Austin era, might be the one we’re turning to. Carroll, Durdin, Parks and future draftees. What gives me some hope is that the future crop will join a club with at least a solid foundation of talent. They’ll join Cripps, Walsh, Weitering, McKay, Saad, Williams and to a less extent Fisher, SPS, Martin, C Curnow and others we know to at least be solid AFL players. Our draftees of yesteryear, including the above mentioned, really had very few players to guide the way for them. Yup agree we need patience still , foundations are in place and we’re debit free at last changes to recruiting team and with a reserve side under O’Keefe & Power things will only improve .

Author:	WOW [ Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:27 am ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2021
cecil89 wrote: Paddycripps wrote: Looks like we need to hope that second wave of youth - Stocker, Kemp, TDK, Philp and of course Walsh - can make the grade. The third wave, under the Austin era, might be the one we’re turning to. Carroll, Durdin, Parks and future draftees. What gives me some hope is that the future crop will join a club with at least a solid foundation of talent. They’ll join Cripps, Walsh, Weitering, McKay, Saad, Williams and to a less extent Fisher, SPS, Martin, C Curnow and others we know to at least be solid AFL players. Our draftees of yesteryear, including the above mentioned, really had very few players to guide the way for them. Agree, club may have to go through a reset to realise it’s ambitions We are still 4 - 6 quality players short, particularly in the midfield We now have a solid core of experienced players but time stands still for no one Would want to be in the top four within the next 2 - 3 years to ensure the playing group is peaking at the right time.

Author:	bondiblue [ Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2021
I can't take any of the media attacks on Carlton this week Facts wrong, Baseless attacks on everything they can muster and all their "facts" are from footy forums. Rather immature and unpreofessional if you asked me. News Ltd journos have come out swinging at Carlton. Have a look at Channel 7 Sunrise snippetville....on Monday open with "Carlton fans booed their team followed there defeat against Port....StKilda beaten by.... " No mention Saints got thrashed by 80 points Herald Sun 3 journos this week. OTC lead story...Lyon and Nick attack Blues with baseless crap. 360 Robbo frothing from the mouth..." I got calls from my mates to say something...." Kevin Sheehan when he was Chief Footy Editor didnt try and slur the teams that make up the competition because its these teams that give supporters and children amongst them, hope, and entertainment, and heroes aand they put food in their mouths from their job. Robbo is hurting the game, and its only round 5. No shame. Just baseless unresearched garbage. He is a disgrace. He and others like St Nick and what about this goose Landsberger...he hasn't got a clue why those players were selected and dropped. He got all his material from Big Footy. Unprofessional, and uninformed. The Carlton Forums over the last 3 years have really got under their skin. They've come out swinging from every channel to market, for revenge against the Gen Y kids in the Carlton forums. Have to laugh at them. Not because they can't spell and string proper sentences. But because the kids have sucked them in. They are Bullies and they haven't an idea Gen Y couldn't give a shit what they say. How can anyone take them so serious?

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Author:	AGRO [ Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:22 am ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2021
WOW wrote: cecil89 wrote: Paddycripps wrote: Looks like we need to hope that second wave of youth - Stocker, Kemp, TDK, Philp and of course Walsh - can make the grade. The third wave, under the Austin era, might be the one we’re turning to. Carroll, Durdin, Parks and future draftees. What gives me some hope is that the future crop will join a club with at least a solid foundation of talent. They’ll join Cripps, Walsh, Weitering, McKay, Saad, Williams and to a less extent Fisher, SPS, Martin, C Curnow and others we know to at least be solid AFL players. Our draftees of yesteryear, including the above mentioned, really had very few players to guide the way for them. Agree, club may have to go through a reset to realise it’s ambitions We are still 4 - 6 quality players short, particularly in the midfield We now have a solid core of experienced players but time stands still for no one Would want to be in the top four within the next 2 - 3 years to ensure the playing group is peaking at the right time. Another 66 game re-set

Author:	Teddy Hopkins [ Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2021
Actually a good article in the HUN today. To paraphrase: old guys deteriorating with no expectation of improvement and/or mediocre players so why are they being played instead of youngsters in the reserves who are showing signs of form.

Author:	Walsh [ Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2021
Teddy Hopkins wrote: Actually a good article in the HUN today. To paraphrase: old guys deteriorating with no expectation of improvement and/or mediocre players so why are they being played instead of youngsters in the reserves who are showing signs of form. Owies form deserves a run ahead of Betts. Cunningham has been abit in and out but don't think his form has been good enough to replace Murph maybe next two weeks. Setters was given a task to get his tackling game back on track and he's done that but needs a more complete game. The Hun is right and wrong... I can only think of Owies pushing out Betts at this stage.

Author:	bondiblue [ Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2021
cecil89 wrote: Walsh wrote: Media is an opinion based business. Cripps, Ed, Walsh, Zac, Fog these blokes are sound contested players. We more than matched Port in clearances and contested possessions. Nick Riewoldt is a bit of a wanker anyway. We get done on the spread and disposal efficiency. Not contested work. So other than being unable to defend the spread, unable to get loose on the spread offensively, and unable to hit a target, our midfield are going dynamite? Facetiousness aside, we absolutely lack some balanced midfielders who can play inside and out. Too many contested players and then a sprinkling of outside players who don’t get their hands dirty. No balance. Nothing wrong with what Walsh posted imo

Author:	bondiblue [ Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: List Management 2021
Teddy Hopkins wrote: Actually a good article in the HUN today. To paraphrase: old guys deteriorating with no expectation of improvement and/or mediocre players so why are they being played instead of youngsters in the reserves who are showing signs of form. Stocker did last week at HB. The previous week playing midfiels was not so prolific Cuningham is in and out and injury hinders his continuity...did the media state that? Nah, they wouldnt know. Ramsay played a good game 2 weeks ago and he is very light and inconsistent. Owies looked lost in the AFL last year, but he turns up week in week out in VFL. Setterfield was crap last week. His first 3/4ers he was unsighted...IN THE VFL. Laid a few tackles...so he should. Honey, Philp managed minutes just getting back from injury. Honey last year was given a taste to show him where he is at......bla bla Injuries have hurt us this year and last year.