At least SOS had money put away for Walsh Harry and Cripps but Austin has gone and wasted about 1.5 million a season on 2 back flankers

Wasted? Drummed up the idea all by his lonesome, did he?

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"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" - Winston Churchill.

I was under the impression SoS wasn't a team player. Are you insinuating he worked with others?

sos recruiting of all those GWS players was/is big failure look ,even setters and plowman for me a very disappointing

Setterfield & Kennedy are inside mids. The issue is we are playing others in these roles and aren't giving these 2 opportunities.
Most times they have played inside mid, they have performed, ie. Setter on the weekend.
Plowman has been fantastic for us and the fact you raised him as a failure tell it all to me.

SoS needed to top up to keep us somewhat competitive as you cannot survive with just draft picks. He did what he could at that time with what he had to use. I'm on record outlining I don't agree with every trade he made, but to blame him solely is incorrect. He also had a team of recruiters supposedly picking draft kids. We will never know exact details on trading and drafting but some like McGovern is a total failure but how much pressure was applied from above at the time to trade "as we have someone of interest wanting to come, etc. etc."? I think I have a good idea.

The list was very well balanced when he was in charge. Unlike now.
Sure it had small holes and maybe not all would make it but it was balanced.

Its too early to put the heat on Austin.
Sos built the cake and now adding cream.

Its impossible for all draftees to make it. All clubs have their fair share of high draft pick flops.

Xavier Ellis - Beau Dowler went top five picks at Hawthorn
Mitch Thorpe - top 5 pick

Hawthorn only started getting their shit together when they traded for Stuart Dew, Burgoyne ( 2x first round picks), Josh Gibson, Lake, McEvoy ( 2x first round picks)

We have the cake - its time to bring in the A graders on every line - or work with what we already got. Either way our list is in much better position than most just need to ensure we start winning as the talent and list composition is there

Totally agree with this

Care to give us your justification for that comment Surrey?

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

I was responding to Stranger’s comment re Austin.

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"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" - Winston Churchill.

Carlton's list/tean lineup's as it sat during SoS last year of being the list manager and before he's last trade/draft.

https://www.draftguru.com.au/lists/2019/carlton

Lachie Plowman Liam Jones Nic Newman
Sam Docherty Jacob Weitering Kade Simpson
Petrevski-Seton Patrick Cripps Lochie O'Brien
Jack Silvagni Levi Casboult Marc Murphy
Charlie Curnow Harry McKay Zac Fisher
Matthew Kreuzer Ed Curnow Sam Walsh
Will Setterfield Paddy Dow
Dale Thomas David Cuningham


Cameron Polson Hugh Goddard Caleb Marchbank
Tom Williamson Harrison Macreadie Angus Schumacher
Darcy Lang Matthew Kennedy Matthew Cottrell
Jarrod Garlett Tom De Koning Alex Fasolo
Mitch McGovern Patrick Kerr Matt Owies
Andrew Phillips Liam Stocker Michael Gibbons

Matthew Lobbe Jarrod Pickett
Ben Silvagni Finbar O'Dwyer
Kym Lebois Josh Deluca

We have 2 recognised ruckman with another 1 developing and Lobbe as backup.
We have a full quota of KP defenders and KP forwards with Ben also as development.
We have inside and outside midfielders. Whether we choose to play or develop them as such is for another discussion. Plenty on that list
We have small forwards in Fasolo, DeLuca, Pickett, LeBois, Owies, Garlett - it's just that maybe for whatever reason our recruiting team didn't get it right.

As you can see from the lineups, from a list point, we had every position covered.

Small defenders in the VFL, Polson and Williamson with a 35 year old small defender hanging on in the AFL team? Not balanced at all IMHO.

Small forwards Fasolo, DeLuca, Pickett, LeBois, Owies, Garlett. SOS was atrocious at picking small forwards IMHO.

First round midfielders selected by SOS, Dow, SPS, Cuningham, Philp, O'Brien, Walsh, Stocker.
So we've used 8 first round picks on midfielders and currently 1 (A number 1 draft pick) is a regular member of our midfield. (Walsh)

So IMHO, SOS was great at picking talls, poor at selecting midfielders and totally disregarded the value of running, small defenders and specialist small forwards. Hence we are playing drafted mids in those roles as the specialists don't exist.

But thanks for taking the time to present your thoughts Surrey. It was well researched. I just disagree with your conclusions.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Surrey does make his point well.
There were support cast players ready to fill in like Goddard and Macreadie, but I tend to agree with BV; that there are holes, especially in that most important area, midfield.

Its ok to have bums on seats, but it is about the quality where the big question marks are at.

Still too early to put a line through Dow, Philp, and Stocker as mids, but you'd think by now we would have had all the mids we needed from all those selections.

Injuries have impacted our year more than some think: Charlie, Marchbank, DeKoning, Silvagni, Martin, Williams and Fisher are huge outs for most of this year. Huge.

I think SOS was a tight arse, and that's why we didn't trade in a bonafide mid all those SOS years to join Cripps, Murphy and Ed back in the day: and we still crave one.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

plowman has been fantastic for us (surreyblue),in which games has ever ever walked off with a dominating performance ,he is slow,turn the ball over ,never taken a mark to help weits or jones(chop out) .someone else once mentioned he is a selfish defender .This is my view only after watching plow over the years i believe not good enough.

Highest disposal efficiency of any Carlton player this year (82.03)
3rd for one percenters. 5th for intercepts.
Not bad for a selfish player who turns the ball over.

Look at his record against the best small forwards.
Charlie Cameron V Carlton. 7 goals in 6 games
Tom Papley V Carlton. 7 goals in 6 games

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

I believe he held Papley pretty well we played the Swannies as well

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tdz7b05 ... nBluesFans

Yes but apart from the high disposal efficiency, keeping small forwards quiet and being a durable defender, what has he ever done for us?

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

I use to be a huge fan of Plowman till this year when I took notice of what other posters had to say and saw it with my own eyes.

He is the best we have.

I know the good things he does and glad you remind everyone, but there's a flipside you have never entertained BV, even when asked for your opinion when he's played badly

Sorry to put it this way, but you defense of Plowman is akin to keoghs attack on SOS and the Board; one sided and nothing else.

Has he failed against small forwards?
Has he failed against players his size?
Has he failed against bigger opponents?
Has he failed to apply defensive pressure when it was his turn?

He is not as perfect as you make out.

There's a reason why he went in so hard against O'Meara last game. It may have something to do with his lack of pressure, questionable commitment to a contest and ball watching which have been shown in the media.

Plowman's shortfalls have been noticed and highlighted by the media this year; a couple of times. Never happened before. He's been noticed not just by me and other posters.

He has been a top 10 in the club BnF of a struggling team who in one year only won 2 games. Maybe he has peaked? Questions should be asked and replacement for him one day will need to be found.

Fact today his position is not one we can replace from our existing players (unless Marchbank finally takes the field), and there's other positions in our team that need addressing before the backline, who have done well as a group (we are 12th on the ladder), but geez imo from what I've seen this year, we could do with some improvement on Plowman and Jones in the next couple of years when we are playing for a flag.

I was rapt to hear Eddie Bett's praise of Plowman last night on 360. Eddie said Plowman is number one in the club for leaving his man to help a team mate or 3rd man in a contest to 'kill' the ball. He does have good qualities, but he also is far from perfect.

He turns 27 this year. I hope his best is ahead of him.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

He's done well in those areas. You can't take that away from Plow. Glass half full.

What he hasn't done is the question raised by many Carlton fans. Glass half empty.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

for me the difference is BV sites facts, Bondi you are talking about perceptions. I get Plough is perceived poorly, but many many many players have been perceived poorly by spectators when the reality inside the club is vastly different. I like Plough, is he the best defender going around, no, but he is good, reliable and selfless.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Bloody Roman's !

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All my dangerous friends