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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:41 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 15745
Location: Bondi Beach
Sidefx wrote:
GWS wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
robertbb wrote:
Who else do we have that may have currency, but who we should be moving on?

I know this.......McGovern. :lol:


Maybe if the currency is the Iranian Rial.

:lol:
Or Indonesian Rupiah.



Ive got some shiny Tom Bowlers

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:03 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 3695
Location: Bendigo
We overpaid to get Saad in, but at least he has nailed the brief.

The audacious plan to flip the switch on our playing style fell apart when Williams turned up late & overweight. He’s no lemon, but he’s got plenty of work to do.

Moving Docherty to a wing is a stop-gap. To be honest, I wasn’t sure he had it in him - I was convinced his leadership qualities far outweighed his playing capabilities. He’s gluing the side together at the moment.

We’ve got a generation of failing midfielders. The review will either reset or resurrect, but we might be too far down the track to try and reset. We just don’t have the currency to change tack... in fact, the focus on coaching and footy department is as strong as any signal that we’re going to try and breathe some life into the current group, rather than replace them.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:06 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:54 pm
Posts: 2745
Location: looking for a good bloke to have a beer with
Crusader wrote:
We overpaid to get Saad in, but at least he has nailed the brief.

The audacious plan to flip the switch on our playing style fell apart when Williams turned up late & overweight. He’s no lemon, but he’s got plenty of work to do.

Moving Docherty to a wing is a stop-gap. To be honest, I wasn’t sure he had it in him - I was convinced his leadership qualities far outweighed his playing capabilities. He’s gluing the side together at the moment.

We’ve got a generation of failing midfielders. The review will either reset or resurrect, but we might be too far down the track to try and reset. We just don’t have the currency to change tack... in fact, the focus on coaching and footy department is as strong as any signal that we’re going to try and breathe some life into the current group, rather than replace them.


Well said - couldn't agree more.

Andrew Russell has his work cut out with Williams I fear.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:34 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 15745
Location: Bondi Beach
https://www.afl.com.au/news/628635/long-kicking-bomber-eyes-new-deal-gun-first-year-mid-set-to-sign

Annoys me to read the success some first year players, taken after pick 10, are going so well in their first year.

Quote:
Powell is averaging 17.6 disposals through the season's first 11 games to firmly establish himself alongside Essendon* starlet Nik Cox as one of the brightest first-year players in the League.


Then thses late picks hit 23yo and perform so well, they warrant another contract.

Quote:
Redman, who is due to play his 50th career game next week when the Bombers return from their bye, has played every game this season and impressed out of defence.

The 23-year-old is averaging 18 disposals and nearly four rebound-50s a game, and has also pushed forward to kick four goals for the season.


Dow and LOB should not be discarded at 22 years of age.

I am very confident Dow will make it, and I believe Dow just needs to run a bit harder to help defence and to attack the ball with more intensity, because at the moment his centre clearance work is better than Crippas.

I think players like Dow Setterfield SPS and Kennedy have that Carlton jogging disease. Maybe, like Kennedy, they can't sprint like other mids can. Ability aside, They show no desire or desperation to get to the next contest, for one two etc....probably because they are victims of another Carlton disease called no blocking, no shepherding, and is a by product of the corralling disease.

Did I mention the no voice box disease?

They need a rocket from someone who sees these Carlton diseases for what they are: Carlton diseases.

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Last edited by bondiblue on Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:39 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:08 pm
Posts: 2468
bondiblue wrote:
https://www.afl.com.au/news/628635/long-kicking-bomber-eyes-new-deal-gun-first-year-mid-set-to-sign

Annoys me to read the success some first year players, taken after pick 10, are going so well in their first year.

Quote:
Powell is averaging 17.6 disposals through the season's first 11 games to firmly establish himself alongside Essendon** starlet Nik Cox as one of the brightest first-year players in the League.


Then thses late picks hit 23yo and perform so well, they warrant another contract.

Quote:
Redman, who is due to play his 50th career game next week when the Bombers return from their bye, has played every game this season and impressed out of defence.

The 23-year-old is averaging 18 disposals and nearly four rebound-50s a game, and has also pushed forward to kick four goals for the season.


Dow and LOB should not be discarded at 22 years of age.

I am very confident Dow will make it, and I believe Dow just needs to run a bit harder to help defence and to attack the ball with more intensity, because at the moment his centre clearance work is better than Crippas.

I think players like Dow Setterfield SPS and Kennedy have that Carlton jogging disease. Maybe, like Kennedy, they can't sprint like other mids can. Ability aside, They show no desire or desperation to get to the next contest, for one two etc....probably because they are victims of another Carlton disease called no clocking, no shepherding, and is a by product of the corrralling disease.

Did I mention the no voice box disease?

They need a rocket from someone who sees thesecarlton diseases for what they are: carlton diseases.


Agree Bb

Foolhardy to even consider off loading Dow unless it was a great deal our way


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:53 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:08 pm
Posts: 2468
keogh wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Saad is the least of our problems. He's shown a few of our blokes how to play with injury without sooking it up. Personally, I think he's shown far more resilience, footy IQ and leadership than most of our blokes.


Where else can he play
If he plays exclusively as an unaccountable HBF on 3.5 million over 5 years then you have a problem
Not as big a problem as having only 3 decent mids
But it’s a problem
It’s part of the overall issue at this club
It seems the club has hit a crisis point this week
But it should of hit that point a long time ago

Wing


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:38 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:42 pm
Posts: 2179
Location: Princess Park
bondiblue wrote:
https://www.afl.com.au/news/628635/long-kicking-bomber-eyes-new-deal-gun-first-year-mid-set-to-sign

Annoys me to read the success some first year players, taken after pick 10, are going so well in their first year.

Quote:
Powell is averaging 17.6 disposals through the season's first 11 games to firmly establish himself alongside Essendon** starlet Nik Cox as one of the brightest first-year players in the League.


Then thses late picks hit 23yo and perform so well, they warrant another contract.

Quote:
Redman, who is due to play his 50th career game next week when the Bombers return from their bye, has played every game this season and impressed out of defence.

The 23-year-old is averaging 18 disposals and nearly four rebound-50s a game, and has also pushed forward to kick four goals for the season.


Dow and LOB should not be discarded at 22 years of age.

I am very confident Dow will make it, and I believe Dow just needs to run a bit harder to help defence and to attack the ball with more intensity, because at the moment his centre clearance work is better than Crippas.

I think players like Dow Setterfield SPS and Kennedy have that Carlton jogging disease. Maybe, like Kennedy, they can't sprint like other mids can. Ability aside, They show no desire or desperation to get to the next contest, for one two etc....probably because they are victims of another Carlton disease called no clocking, no shepherding, and is a by product of the corrralling disease.

Did I mention the no voice box disease?

They need a rocket from someone who sees thesecarlton diseases for what they are: carlton diseases.


Well said BB, I mentioned elsewhere that Dow and Setterfield seem so bloody introverted and frightened to make an impact. They just cruise around watching and hardly get involved, I really do believe they have a lot more to offer. I know times have moved on but they both need a good old slap (you know what I mean) before they run out to wake up. A Barrasi or Parkin stare along with some colorful language.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:47 pm 
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formerly Fevola

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:57 pm
Posts: 3698
We dont like extroverts at this club. Only ones I can think of is Curnow and Stocker. I think its an issues as the players we have a scarred of contact. And dont like running either. Instead of putting pressure on the opponent they stick their arms in the air and let the opponent get easy kicks away. They do it all the time. Goodness forbid we get some scary tough players. We want mummies boys.. Have done so for years.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:11 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:30 pm
Posts: 1582
Location: How blue do you do
Blue4ever wrote:
They just cruise around watching and hardly get involved, I really do believe they have a lot more to offer. I know times have moved on but they both need a good old slap (you know what I mean) before they run out to wake up. A Barrasi or Parkin stare along with some colorful language.



Imagine an old school coach like Barrasi coaching our lot. He wouldn't last long.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:16 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 6:10 pm
Posts: 33151
Location: COMFORTABLY DISSATISFIED
Drewgirl wrote:
We dont like extroverts at this club. Only ones I can think of is Curnow and Stocker. I think its an issues as the players we have a scarred of contact. And dont like running either. Instead of putting pressure on the opponent they stick their arms in the air and let the opponent get easy kicks away. They do it all the time. Goodness forbid we get some scary tough players. We want mummies boys.. Have done so for years.

One of the reasons I suspect Stocker doesn't seem to get much love from his teammates or coaches. Seems to actually have a bit of swagger, which is a big no-no.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:26 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:30 pm
Posts: 1582
Location: How blue do you do
Donstuie wrote:
Drewgirl wrote:
We dont like extroverts at this club. Only ones I can think of is Curnow and Stocker. I think its an issues as the players we have a scarred of contact. And dont like running either. Instead of putting pressure on the opponent they stick their arms in the air and let the opponent get easy kicks away. They do it all the time. Goodness forbid we get some scary tough players. We want mummies boys.. Have done so for years.

One of the reasons I suspect Stocker doesn't seem to get much love from his teammates or coaches. Seems to actually have a bit of swagger, which is a big no-no.


'Retire' the conditional non-performers. they are poison. Start with MM.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:20 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 15745
Location: Bondi Beach
famousblueraincoat wrote:
Blue4ever wrote:
They just cruise around watching and hardly get involved, I really do believe they have a lot more to offer. I know times have moved on but they both need a good old slap (you know what I mean) before they run out to wake up. A Barrasi or Parkin stare along with some colorful language.



Imagine an old school coach like Barrasi coaching our lot. He wouldn't last long.


I think players interested in themselves moreso than ultimate success would go before Barassi, even in this day and age.

When I was coaching just a couple years back, some parents couldn't believe how the kids responded to an "old fashioned" tough, straight forward style to kick them into action.

I'm sure some thought I was a bit too tough, but I was being honest and caring. No one could say I wasn't caring. I worked on their deficiencies, and the players knew they had them, once it was pointed out.

Players wanted to join my team because of the old fashioned hard nosed style for success.

This new age rubbish caters for softies who have been conditioned, or should I say, spoilt, in their entitled life.

Piss the weak off in AFL. There's plenty of other leagues to play for if Flags are not the players objective, and ofcourse, will do what it takes to win one of those rare things in life.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:22 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 15745
Location: Bondi Beach
Donstuie wrote:
Drewgirl wrote:
We dont like extroverts at this club. Only ones I can think of is Curnow and Stocker. I think its an issues as the players we have a scarred of contact. And dont like running either. Instead of putting pressure on the opponent they stick their arms in the air and let the opponent get easy kicks away. They do it all the time. Goodness forbid we get some scary tough players. We want mummies boys.. Have done so for years.

One of the reasons I suspect Stocker doesn't seem to get much love from his teammates or coaches. Seems to actually have a bit of swagger, which is a big no-no.


This is good.

The players who don't like his swagger I assume are easily identified. If so, weed out the leaders of this behaviour. The followers will tow the line thereafter.

Clean out the joint of players who don't want to love their team mates and wouldn't bleed for them.

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Lets stick together. Don't believe everything Robinson, Landsberger and Cornes say about Carlton. Shock jocks.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:33 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 15745
Location: Bondi Beach
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2021/06/10/will-teague-be-coaching-carlton-in-2022/

Rendell's opinion

Quote:
“What I watched of Carlton on the weekend, and I know a lot's been said, they need a hard edge in that team, and he (Clarkson) would provide it.


Quote:
“I don’t think Teague is providing that hard edge in the coaching department. Their footy IQ was abysmal last weekend.



Quote:
“Their footy IQ is really poor at the moment with how they are planning. They just look like they’re going out and playing.

“I think they’ll get a change at the end of the year, Carlton. I’m not saying it’s going to be Clarkson, but I think it’ll be an ideal fit.

“Carlton with a change of coach and a real tough, mean mindset – which we know ‘Clarko’ will provide – they’re a real chance to finish in the top four with their list.”


So what was this flower Rohan Connoly, the Effendrugs* supporter saying about our list? Complete opposite to this, and King's and many other scribes.

Like I said, Effedrugs* supporters are biased journalists, if you can call them that, and the content they make up is not worth paying for.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:20 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:08 pm
Posts: 2468
bondiblue wrote:
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2021/06/10/will-teague-be-coaching-carlton-in-2022/

Rendell's opinion

Quote:
“What I watched of Carlton on the weekend, and I know a lot's been said, they need a hard edge in that team, and he (Clarkson) would provide it.


Quote:
“I don’t think Teague is providing that hard edge in the coaching department. Their footy IQ was abysmal last weekend.



Quote:
“Their footy IQ is really poor at the moment with how they are planning. They just look like they’re going out and playing.

“I think they’ll get a change at the end of the year, Carlton. I’m not saying it’s going to be Clarkson, but I think it’ll be an ideal fit.

“Carlton with a change of coach and a real tough, mean mindset – which we know ‘Clarko’ will provide – they’re a real chance to finish in the top four with their list.”


So what was this flower Rohan Connoly, the Effendrugs* supporter saying about our list? Complete opposite to this, and King's and many other scribes.

Like I said, Effedrugs* supporters are biased journalists, if you can call them that, and the content they make up is not worth paying for.

Hard edge is needed

Last year .......apparently Melbourne’s list was shit


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:00 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:42 pm
Posts: 2179
Location: Princess Park
No doubt we have deficiencies on our list but our list is better than a 4/8 result to date. That tells me the Coach and the Assistants are failing miserably. I've said it a few times that some of our players seem timid, introverted and lost. If Teague's approach pre game is similar to his pressers and the way he carries himself in the box we are not going any where.

No coincidence that the coaches of the top teams have a prickly side and show controlled emotion, it comes out on the field.

I'm not just jumping on Rendall's view I have been saying this for a while, we are a nice team to play against. We don't have the killer instinct nor the ability to control a lead. Even in some of our wins, we are a few goals in front and we kick the ball quickly out of defence to the middle causing a 50/50 contest - just dumb football - what do the coaches do all week with the players. No ability to kill the game. Sometimes it more about what's between the ears and this is where the coaches play a role.

I actually get more satisfaction watching the top teams, their game style, composure, execution, the ability to attack or slow the game up - a lot of this has to do with coaching.

Dow, SPS and O'Brien for example showed more when they just arrived compared to what they are showing now after 3 or 4 years in the system. This has to be on the coaches/development.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:40 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 2:10 pm
Posts: 1578
Donstuie wrote:
Drewgirl wrote:
We dont like extroverts at this club. Only ones I can think of is Curnow and Stocker. I think its an issues as the players we have a scarred of contact. And dont like running either. Instead of putting pressure on the opponent they stick their arms in the air and let the opponent get easy kicks away. They do it all the time. Goodness forbid we get some scary tough players. We want mummies boys.. Have done so for years.

One of the reasons I suspect Stocker doesn't seem to get much love from his teammates or coaches. Seems to actually have a bit of swagger, which is a big no-no.


This is why I like the sound of Charlie McKay, likes to get in the face of his opponent and has a bit of his old mans shit in him.

Should be FS’d for sure


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:09 am 
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Wayne Johnston
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:32 am
Posts: 8809
bondiblue wrote:

So what was this flower Rohan Connoly, the Effendrugs* supporter saying about our list? Complete opposite to this, and King's and many other scribes.

Like I said, Effedrugs* supporters are biased journalists, if you can call them that, and the content they make up is not worth paying for.


Don't listen to Connolly. He has a deep hatred for Carlton since his school years. Trust me and yes, that far back. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:28 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:55 pm
Posts: 2865
Updated free agents list.

https://www.afl.com.au/news/629190/who-s-still-on-the-table-updated-free-agents-list-revealed

I'd be happy if all of our unrestricted list walked (maybe keep Curnow).
And if we let Cripps go and got Merrett, Kelly and maybe Billings.
But we might need Clarkson to pull that off and if we have the salary cap room.

Quote:
RESTRICTED FREE AGENTS

Matt Crouch (Adelaide Crows)
Patrick Cripps (Carlton)
Zach Merrett (Essendon*)
Josh Kelly (GWS Giants)
Jack Billings (St Kilda)
George Hewett (Sydney Swans)


Quote:
UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENTS
CARLTON

Marc Murphy
Levi Casboult
Edward Betts*^
Edward Curnow
Matthew Kennedy*
Oscar McDonald*


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:35 pm 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 6:11 pm
Posts: 11539
Not sure how reliable they are but a poster on BF said the following;
Talking to Lyon, Mitchell, Voss and 2 others.
Cripps may not sign.
SPS, Dow and O'Brien may be moved on. SPS unhappy about being played out of position.
Harry has a big offer from us but North, Essendon* and Hawks very interested.
Club not impressed with Murphy after he was dropped.


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