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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:04 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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I didn't mind hearing our blokes copping a pasting :razz:

Up to them to respond :fight:

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:14 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:38 pm
Posts: 6115
Fair game and overdue in my view
Laughing stock of the AFL for 20 years
Got a reputation for being soft
Hard core fans are sick of spin and half efforts and empty rhetoric and false dawns promises and false bravado
Perform like a mature talented football team this goes away continue to be flaky talk themselves up after a couple of modest victories be soft and not respond appropriately then once again fair game


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 2:28 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 15346
Location: Bondi Beach
CK95 wrote:
I didn't mind hearing our blokes copping a pasting :razz:

Up to them to respond :fight:


I know where you are coming from CK.

And to a point, I am happy about it too.

The really obvious thing highlighted is, not by Robbo, Landsberger (who the @#$%&! is he?), Cornes, Whately, Lyons and Reiwoldt, but by Rodney Eade, that the profile of our list is not defined by tough hard at it, competitive footballers/ beasts. He argues its a key ingredient for success; that's what is missing.

We also find out if SOS drafted and traded in players who are tough mentally and physically to drive a team forward.

After all, SOS did draft and trade in 56 players: one Eddie Betts, reluctantly, and, you could say had to Trade Tuohy and give 2 First round picks, and forced to take Palmer, Gorringe, Sumner, Lamb and Smedts to get Philips, as support for Kreuzer, Marchbank and Plowman.

Lets take out those 5 forced on us by GWS (4) and Geelong (1) and SOS directly recruited 51 players, rounded 50. You'd say that's enough picks to recruit some tough, unforgiving competitive beasts to give our team some necessary grunt and fear from the opposition.

The team we have today can fight as much as they can, and if they win, unbelievable, and the scalp will shut those abovementioned detractors. But with 11 players out injured, and carrying a few conditional players, we are living in hope vs Top 4 team Brisbane with their 3 headed monster.


A few things are really obvious to me:

Mark Robinson doesn't want to paint a rosy picture of Carlton, nor concede injuries are hurting us, for fear of losing Merrett years end (free agent and on our radar). His team is Essedruggies* after all.

Landsberger's boss is Mark Robinson. Say no more. Plus he doesn't do homework and his Chief Editor guides his script, obviously. He doesn't know why some players last year were given a taste when our injury list was at a high last year. Honey Cottrell Owies last year were given a taste and were not ready for the big time. He wants us to play Setterfield, Williamson OBrien and Dow who are all out of form. Have a guess why? He, like his boss, Robbo doesn't want a strong Carlton ... well not this year.

The there's Lyon, Reiwoldt and Whateley. Have a look who they work for.

Cornes is a shock jock and never provides a balanced view and hates Carlton because of Russells kick to win us a game and the SA based Carlton supporters gave him a bake after that. Carlton following in SA is huge. It had an impact. His ego got hurt and he carries grudges.

I agree with Eade, but anyone who agrees with the reasoning presented by those News Corp journos have taken the bait and feeding their aim to take the shine off Carlton as a destination club. Agendas.

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Last edited by bondiblue on Fri Apr 23, 2021 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 2:28 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 15346
Location: Bondi Beach
We have to stay the course. Get the 10 of the 11 injured back on the field; Repair those playing injured (Cripps, Saad); Trade in a few mongrels and a star or two; and, continue to encourage players who have that mongrel, coupled with necessary skills (not Williamson) to play with that unsociable character as required by a Top 4 team ... we have them on our list...Newman, Kemp, Martin, Philp, Silvagni and Honey; and ask those with tough seasoned bodies to go out there and make the opposition hurt, or earn their keep to have second thoughts about going in. I'm talking Newnes and Cuningham, and if Cuningham's body can't cope with the rigours of AFL, then get a Ben Cunington type.

We are not that far off if we can our boys on the park this year, to help us perform and continue to look a destination club (by shutting up our detractors' mouths), and add a couple more tough players and stars in the team...and I'm sure we will.

We will not win the flag this year. 2021 is a stepping stone. Miss Finals and its a failure, but not the end of the world.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 7:38 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:06 pm
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Location: Half back flank
I think a lot of us (& media people) just expected things to naturally improve & fall into place & we'd make the 8. Wheras the reality is we still don't have a midfield that goes 6 or 7 deep with B+ type players, and you're not going to address that issue in just one off season. We got Williams, & I he can play IMO so that's a win, but we are only going to improve when our emerging group of small to medium sized players start coming on. Let's hope they do.

Every weekend we really need a couple of these players to produce a quality game in the ones or the twos. Cunningham pretty good game against Bris, & Setters & Dow were good not great on Sat arvo. Ramsay & Honey showed some good signs. But nobody really jumps out as promotion material at this point.

First half of this season is going to be rough...lose to Ess & we will probably go 2-7 & miss finals.

Second half of the season, get the injured players back, hopefully a few reserves mids start knocking the door down, plus the fixture gets easier. But overall I think people went a year early in their predictions. We've got plenty of players who show potential but just haven't had time to prove it, mostly through injury.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:09 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 15346
Location: Bondi Beach
Parish won the Anzac medal today with 40 possessions.
Pick 5 in 2015 Draft

He turns 24 in July.
Will be playing his 100th game v Carlton.

He was laughed at prior to this year.

It takes time to make the grade, unless you're Walsh.

Cuningham was taken at pick 22 ish
He turns 24 this year

Dow and OBrien turn 22 this year...IIRC Dow in December.
Stocker turns 21 this year, Setterfield 23. Fisher 23. DeKoning 22 Cottrell 21.

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Lets stick together. Don't believe everything Robinson, Landsberger and Cornes say about Carlton. Shock jocks.


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 Post subject: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 11:21 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:14 pm
Posts: 5480
Location: Melbourne
bondiblue wrote:
Parish won the Anzac medal today with 40 possessions.
Pick 5 in 2015 Draft

He turns 24 in July.
Will be playing his 100th game v Carlton.

He was laughed at prior to this year.

It takes time to make the grade, unless you're Walsh.

Cuningham was taken at pick 22 ish
He turns 24 this year

Dow and OBrien turn 22 this year...IIRC Dow in December.
Stocker turns 21 this year, Setterfield 23. Fisher 23. DeKoning 22 Cottrell 21.


Parish was always at least an ok player, more comparable to SPS than Dow or LOB.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:25 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:50 am
Posts: 1008
bondiblue wrote:
Parish won the Anzac medal today with 40 possessions.
Pick 5 in 2015 Draft

He turns 24 in July.
Will be playing his 100th game v Carlton.

He was laughed at prior to this year.

It takes time to make the grade, unless you're Walsh.

Cuningham was taken at pick 22 ish
He turns 24 this year

Dow and OBrien turn 22 this year...IIRC Dow in December.
Stocker turns 21 this year, Setterfield 23. Fisher 23. DeKoning 22 Cottrell 21.


That is true. However, I could also point to Freo's young midfield of Sering, Brayshaw and Cerra. They are all Dow's draft or younger and going alot better than our mids

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:40 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 15346
Location: Bondi Beach
Adam Chatfield wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Parish won the Anzac medal today with 40 possessions.
Pick 5 in 2015 Draft

He turns 24 in July.
Will be playing his 100th game v Carlton.

He was laughed at prior to this year.

It takes time to make the grade, unless you're Walsh.

Cuningham was taken at pick 22 ish
He turns 24 this year

Dow and OBrien turn 22 this year...IIRC Dow in December.
Stocker turns 21 this year, Setterfield 23. Fisher 23. DeKoning 22 Cottrell 21.


Bullshit he was.

He was the butt of every joke related to Effendrugs from all opposing supporters.

He, along with Luenberger, Francis....how can you forget.

He went missing.

Too small
Too sjinny

for a high draft pick.

I haven't forgotten hence the post

Parish was always at least an ok player, more comparable to SPS than Dow or LOB.

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Lets stick together. Don't believe everything Robinson, Landsberger and Cornes say about Carlton. Shock jocks.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:41 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 15346
Location: Bondi Beach
sticksaftersiren87 wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Parish won the Anzac medal today with 40 possessions.
Pick 5 in 2015 Draft

He turns 24 in July.
Will be playing his 100th game v Carlton.

He was laughed at prior to this year.

It takes time to make the grade, unless you're Walsh.

Cuningham was taken at pick 22 ish
He turns 24 this year

Dow and OBrien turn 22 this year...IIRC Dow in December.
Stocker turns 21 this year, Setterfield 23. Fisher 23. DeKoning 22 Cottrell 21.


That is true. However, I could also point to Freo's young midfield of Sering, Brayshaw and Cerra. They are all Dow's draft or younger and going alot better than our mids


I look at their stats and the hype that goes with that. Dows done well imo compared to them...they are all on par...22 yo's

We are a biigger club hence more srutiny.

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Lets stick together. Don't believe everything Robinson, Landsberger and Cornes say about Carlton. Shock jocks.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:56 am 
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Wayne Johnston
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:32 am
Posts: 8731
bondiblue wrote:
Parish won the Anzac medal today with 40 possessions.
Pick 5 in 2015 Draft

He turns 24 in July.
Will be playing his 100th game v Carlton.

He was laughed at prior to this year.

It takes time to make the grade, unless you're Walsh.

Cuningham was taken at pick 22 ish
He turns 24 this year

Dow and OBrien turn 22 this year...IIRC Dow in December.
Stocker turns 21 this year, Setterfield 23. Fisher 23. DeKoning 22 Cottrell 21.


Agree Bondi. Kids aren't the issue. This year some have been slow to take the steps but it's the mature aged recruits and experienced leaders that have let us down THIS YEAR.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:39 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 1:40 pm
Posts: 2913
I reckon it's important to look at players in some context.

Parish was pick #5 in the 2015 draft, and on reflection, it's not an amazing draft for mids. Here are the mids drafted in the top 25 that year:

#3 - Callum Mills - gun
#4 - Clayton Oliver - gun
# 5 - Darcy Parish - finally coming good?
#7 - Jacob Hopper - solid
#8 - Callum Ah Chee - at second club, now a defender
#11 - Wayne Milera - always injured
#13 - Matt Kennedy - at second club, fringe player
#15 - Daniel Rioli - gun small forward, but not always best 22
#18 - Jade Gresham - solid, currently injured
#20 - Brayden Fiorini - frequently injured
#23 - David Cunningham - frequently injured
#24 - Ben Keays - at second club, playing well
#25 - Josh Dunkley - good player.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:59 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 15346
Location: Bondi Beach
bondiblue wrote:
Adam Chatfield wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Parish won the Anzac medal today with 40 possessions.
Pick 5 in 2015 Draft

He turns 24 in July.
Will be playing his 100th game v Carlton.

He was laughed at prior to this year.

It takes time to make the grade, unless you're Walsh.

Cuningham was taken at pick 22 ish
He turns 24 this year

Dow and OBrien turn 22 this year...IIRC Dow in December.
Stocker turns 21 this year, Setterfield 23. Fisher 23. DeKoning 22 Cottrell 21.


Bullshit he was.

He was the butt of every joke related to Effendrugs from all opposing supporters.

He, along with Luenberger, Francis....how can you forget.

He went missing.

Too small
Too sjinny

for a high draft pick.

I haven't forgotten hence the post

Parish was always at least an ok player, more comparable to SPS than Dow or LOB.


Excuse me for sounding condescending and rude. There is an element of bias when we judge/ degrade anything Black and red.

Last year Parish averages 19 disposals as a midfielder in his 5th year. Its not too bad TBH.

He did have a really good first year' p[laying midfield, and was credited as a rising star.

First 2 years of his career Dow's avearge was 14 disposals.

Last year with minimal game time, playing HFF, and this year where he was credited a game but didn't get on the ground, the figures are 12 dispsoals.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:06 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 15346
Location: Bondi Beach
bondiblue wrote:
sticksaftersiren87 wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Parish won the Anzac medal today with 40 possessions.
Pick 5 in 2015 Draft

He turns 24 in July.
Will be playing his 100th game v Carlton.

He was laughed at prior to this year.

It takes time to make the grade, unless you're Walsh.

Cuningham was taken at pick 22 ish
He turns 24 this year

Dow and OBrien turn 22 this year...IIRC Dow in December.
Stocker turns 21 this year, Setterfield 23. Fisher 23. DeKoning 22 Cottrell 21.



That is true. However, I could also point to Freo's young midfield of Sering, Brayshaw and Cerra. They are all Dow's draft or younger and going alot better than our mids


I look at their stats and the hype that goes with that. Dows done well imo compared to them...they are all on par...22 yo's

We are a biigger club hence more srutiny.


True. I'm being bias and am not putting the heat on the players TBH. Maybe I should. maybe its something else. Maybe Dow hasn't had the same amount of time around the ball as those 3.

I think Brayshaw is a gun. Serong tough as nails. Cerra, the jury is out, like Dow, but doing ok imo.

Pick 4 Cerra first year 13 disposals. This year 19 dispsoals
Pick 2 Brayshaw first year 15 disposals. This year 26
Pick 8 Serong first year 16 disposals. This year 24.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:12 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 15346
Location: Bondi Beach
SurreyBlue wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Parish won the Anzac medal today with 40 possessions.
Pick 5 in 2015 Draft

He turns 24 in July.
Will be playing his 100th game v Carlton.

He was laughed at prior to this year.

It takes time to make the grade, unless you're Walsh.

Cuningham was taken at pick 22 ish
He turns 24 this year

Dow and OBrien turn 22 this year...IIRC Dow in December.
Stocker turns 21 this year, Setterfield 23. Fisher 23. DeKoning 22 Cottrell 21.


Agree Bondi. Kids aren't the issue. This year some have been slow to take the steps but it's the mature aged recruits and experienced leaders that have let us down THIS YEAR.


True, leadership hasn't been flash. Cripps trying to do it all himself. Ed hacking the ball forward instead of connecting around him. Murphy in the first round was so so, but no longer midfield etc. (he did play wing on Sat night), Levi horrible. Ed not sharp. Jones superstar most weks, panic merchant other times....

SOS didn't really recruit any footballers physically tough enough to impose themselves on the game week in week out.

Plus a few other things...injury, perhaps allowed many to be gifted games.

Russell may have his reason but surely Dow could have been putting on more upper body kg's over last 3 seasons...something pointed out today at lunch with ex Bluebagger.

Who really knows.

Another 16 games to reflect on 2021.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:15 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 15346
Location: Bondi Beach
bluechampion wrote:
I reckon it's important to look at players in some context.

Parish was pick #5 in the 2015 draft, and on reflection, it's not an amazing draft for mids. Here are the mids drafted in the top 25 that year:

#3 - Callum Mills - gun
#4 - Clayton Oliver - gun
# 5 - Darcy Parish - finally coming good?
#7 - Jacob Hopper - solid
#8 - Callum Ah Chee - at second club, now a defender
#11 - Wayne Milera - always injured
#13 - Matt Kennedy - at second club, fringe player
#15 - Daniel Rioli - gun small forward, but not always best 22
#18 - Jade Gresham - solid, currently injured
#20 - Brayden Fiorini - frequently injured
#23 - David Cunningham - frequently injured
#24 - Ben Keays - at second club, playing well
#25 - Josh Dunkley - good player.


I was really keen on:

Oliver with his last 8 TAC games on fire.
Loved Dunkley who came from good stock but he could kick well.
Gresham a Carlton supporter and small forward

But it was the year we built the spine.

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Lets stick together. Don't believe everything Robinson, Landsberger and Cornes say about Carlton. Shock jocks.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:34 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 1:40 pm
Posts: 2913
bondiblue wrote:
bluechampion wrote:
I reckon it's important to look at players in some context.

Parish was pick #5 in the 2015 draft, and on reflection, it's not an amazing draft for mids. Here are the mids drafted in the top 25 that year:

#3 - Callum Mills - gun
#4 - Clayton Oliver - gun
# 5 - Darcy Parish - finally coming good?
#7 - Jacob Hopper - solid
#8 - Callum Ah Chee - at second club, now a defender
#11 - Wayne Milera - always injured
#13 - Matt Kennedy - at second club, fringe player
#15 - Daniel Rioli - gun small forward, but not always best 22
#18 - Jade Gresham - solid, currently injured
#20 - Brayden Fiorini - frequently injured
#23 - David Cunningham - frequently injured
#24 - Ben Keays - at second club, playing well
#25 - Josh Dunkley - good player.


I was really keen on:

Oliver with his last 8 TAC games on fire.
Loved Dunkley who came from good stock but he could kick well.
Gresham a Carlton supporter and small forward

But it was the year we built the spine.


We actually smashed this draft:

#1 - Weitering
#10 - McKay
#12 - C. Curnow
#53 - Silvagni


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:38 pm 
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Robert Walls
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:40 pm
Posts: 3533
bluechampion wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
bluechampion wrote:
I reckon it's important to look at players in some context.

Parish was pick #5 in the 2015 draft, and on reflection, it's not an amazing draft for mids. Here are the mids drafted in the top 25 that year:

#3 - Callum Mills - gun
#4 - Clayton Oliver - gun
# 5 - Darcy Parish - finally coming good?
#7 - Jacob Hopper - solid
#8 - Callum Ah Chee - at second club, now a defender
#11 - Wayne Milera - always injured
#13 - Matt Kennedy - at second club, fringe player
#15 - Daniel Rioli - gun small forward, but not always best 22
#18 - Jade Gresham - solid, currently injured
#20 - Brayden Fiorini - frequently injured
#23 - David Cunningham - frequently injured
#24 - Ben Keays - at second club, playing well
#25 - Josh Dunkley - good player.


I was really keen on:

Oliver with his last 8 TAC games on fire.
Loved Dunkley who came from good stock but he could kick well.
Gresham a Carlton supporter and small forward

But it was the year we built the spine.


We actually smashed this draft:

#1 - Weitering
#10 - McKay
#12 - C. Curnow
#53 - Silvagni


Faaarking oath BChamp.............brilliant actually.Those four blokes will be the backbone of our side for hopefully the next ten years.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:56 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 15346
Location: Bondi Beach
bluechampion wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
bluechampion wrote:
I reckon it's important to look at players in some context.

Parish was pick #5 in the 2015 draft, and on reflection, it's not an amazing draft for mids. Here are the mids drafted in the top 25 that year:

#3 - Callum Mills - gun
#4 - Clayton Oliver - gun
# 5 - Darcy Parish - finally coming good?
#7 - Jacob Hopper - solid
#8 - Callum Ah Chee - at second club, now a defender
#11 - Wayne Milera - always injured
#13 - Matt Kennedy - at second club, fringe player
#15 - Daniel Rioli - gun small forward, but not always best 22
#18 - Jade Gresham - solid, currently injured
#20 - Brayden Fiorini - frequently injured
#23 - David Cunningham - frequently injured
#24 - Ben Keays - at second club, playing well
#25 - Josh Dunkley - good player.


I was really keen on:

Oliver with his last 8 TAC games on fire.
Loved Dunkley who came from good stock but he could kick well.
Gresham a Carlton supporter and small forward

But it was the year we built the spine.


We actually smashed this draft:

#1 - Weitering
#10 - McKay
#12 - C. Curnow
#53 - Silvagni


Yep, and we were the envy of the football woprld.

What happened with the promised mids, other than Walsh...the jury is still out here in Bondi.
Different court system

We need to add mongrel

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:42 pm 
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Bert Deacon

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:23 am
Posts: 538
bondiblue wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
sticksaftersiren87 wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Parish won the Anzac medal today with 40 possessions.
Pick 5 in 2015 Draft

He turns 24 in July.
Will be playing his 100th game v Carlton.

He was laughed at prior to this year.

It takes time to make the grade, unless you're Walsh.

Cuningham was taken at pick 22 ish
He turns 24 this year

Dow and OBrien turn 22 this year...IIRC Dow in December.
Stocker turns 21 this year, Setterfield 23. Fisher 23. DeKoning 22 Cottrell 21.



That is true. However, I could also point to Freo's young midfield of Sering, Brayshaw and Cerra. They are all Dow's draft or younger and going alot better than our mids


I look at their stats and the hype that goes with that. Dows done well imo compared to them...they are all on par...22 yo's

We are a biigger club hence more srutiny.


True. I'm being bias and am not putting the heat on the players TBH. Maybe I should. maybe its something else. Maybe Dow hasn't had the same amount of time around the ball as those 3.

I think Brayshaw is a gun. Serong tough as nails. Cerra, the jury is out, like Dow, but doing ok imo.

Pick 4 Cerra first year 13 disposals. This year 19 dispsoals
Pick 2 Brayshaw first year 15 disposals. This year 26
Pick 8 Serong first year 16 disposals. This year 24.


Crippa needs to do what fyfe and mundy did for
Cerra Brayshaw and serong development and we would be a much better side

Crippa first qtr on Saturday was a good example , feeed them and let them run

Dow would be a much better player if crippa feeding him the ball

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