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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:28 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Posts: 1383
Lachlan Sholl dropped again by Adelaide.

Hopefully he wants to come home, and we're keen to revitalise the Marchesani rule.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:57 am 
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Rod Ashman
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Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:44 am
Posts: 2135
Location: East Melbourne
bondiblue wrote:
DesEnglish wrote:
Is the plan for Mirkov and TDK ato be the ruck/fwd combo moving forward?

If that’s the case I’d chase a stop gap experienced ruck for a couple of years. Wonder if the Hawks would trade McEvoy


I've been saying this fo a long time.
I have a history of respecting the role of ruckmen.
In fact, I wouldn't go into a Grand Final with one, unless the 2nd is Med Sub.

You realise how important a ruckman is when you don't have an AA ruckman facing the 4 other AA ruckmen in the land.

No doubt Mirkov is selected to develop.
He is an athletic freak, and knows the game but at an amateur level.
He may come on really quick.
I like the way Russell wants to strengthen him up to AFL standard before next season comes around.

We need a stop gap, like Hawks did with McEvoy.
Who knew he was going to continue playing this long.
What would you offer the Hawks for their captain?

Its a pity Kreuzer's body failed him and left us with an inexperienced average ruck, with a big heart in Pittonet, who since injured have left a skinny 22yo to take the No 1 mantle when he shouldnt be anything but No. 2 this year.

Lets hope TDK improves a lot the next preseason.
I think those skinny legs and hips are going to need another 3 preseasons to compete with the heavier, stronger bodies.

Finf another one, McEvoy highly unlikely, unless we offer a 1st or 2nd rounder, and McEvoy may not be interested in moving at his age....and at his age, he may be at the end of his career during 2022.
GWS have Mumford, Preuss, Flynn and Briggs. Mumford will retire again. So Flynn and Preuss will fight for No 1. Flynn has had a good year. How about we chase Preuss? He is obviously happy to change clubs to find that No 1 spot.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:39 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 2:10 pm
Posts: 2455
malbi wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
DesEnglish wrote:
Is the plan for Mirkov and TDK ato be the ruck/fwd combo moving forward?

If that’s the case I’d chase a stop gap experienced ruck for a couple of years. Wonder if the Hawks would trade McEvoy


I've been saying this fo a long time.
I have a history of respecting the role of ruckmen.
In fact, I wouldn't go into a Grand Final with one, unless the 2nd is Med Sub.

You realise how important a ruckman is when you don't have an AA ruckman facing the 4 other AA ruckmen in the land.

No doubt Mirkov is selected to develop.
He is an athletic freak, and knows the game but at an amateur level.
He may come on really quick.
I like the way Russell wants to strengthen him up to AFL standard before next season comes around.

We need a stop gap, like Hawks did with McEvoy.
Who knew he was going to continue playing this long.
What would you offer the Hawks for their captain?

Its a pity Kreuzer's body failed him and left us with an inexperienced average ruck, with a big heart in Pittonet, who since injured have left a skinny 22yo to take the No 1 mantle when he shouldnt be anything but No. 2 this year.

Lets hope TDK improves a lot the next preseason.
I think those skinny legs and hips are going to need another 3 preseasons to compete with the heavier, stronger bodies.

Finf another one, McEvoy highly unlikely, unless we offer a 1st or 2nd rounder, and McEvoy may not be interested in moving at his age....and at his age, he may be at the end of his career during 2022.
GWS have Mumford, Preuss, Flynn and Briggs. Mumford will retire again. So Flynn and Preuss will fight for No 1. Flynn has had a good year. How about we chase Preuss? He is obviously happy to change clubs to find that No 1 spot.

Is he better than Pittonet?

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 Post subject: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:26 am 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 8166
Location: Australia
bondiblue wrote:
DesEnglish wrote:
Is the plan for Mirkov and TDK ato be the ruck/fwd combo moving forward?

If that’s the case I’d chase a stop gap experienced ruck for a couple of years. Wonder if the Hawks would trade McEvoy


I've been saying this fo a long time.
I have a history of respecting the role of ruckmen.
In fact, I wouldn't go into a Grand Final with one, unless the 2nd is Med Sub.

You realise how important a ruckman is when you don't have an AA ruckman facing the 4 other AA ruckmen in the land.

No doubt Mirkov is selected to develop.
He is an athletic freak, and knows the game but at an amateur level.
He may come on really quick.
I like the way Russell wants to strengthen him up to AFL standard before next season comes around.

We need a stop gap, like Hawks did with McEvoy.
Who knew he was going to continue playing this long.
What would you offer the Hawks for their captain?

Its a pity Kreuzer's body failed him and left us with an inexperienced average ruck, with a big heart in Pittonet, who since injured have left a skinny 22yo to take the No 1 mantle when he shouldnt be anything but No. 2 this year.

Lets hope TDK improves a lot the next preseason.
I think those skinny legs and hips are going to need another 3 preseasons to compete with the heavier, stronger bodies.

Finf another one, McEvoy highly unlikely, unless we offer a 1st or 2nd rounder, and McEvoy may not be interested in moving at his age....and at his age, he may be at the end of his career during 2022.


I think Pittonet is all we need for now, he’s not good enough that he’ll keep TDK or Mircov out of the team if they play well enough, but he is good enough to compete with most rucks going round while they develop.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:35 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22924
Location: Bondi Beach
malbi wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
DesEnglish wrote:
Is the plan for Mirkov and TDK ato be the ruck/fwd combo moving forward?

If that’s the case I’d chase a stop gap experienced ruck for a couple of years. Wonder if the Hawks would trade McEvoy


I've been saying this fo a long time.
I have a history of respecting the role of ruckmen.
In fact, I wouldn't go into a Grand Final with one, unless the 2nd is Med Sub.

You realise how important a ruckman is when you don't have an AA ruckman facing the 4 other AA ruckmen in the land.

No doubt Mirkov is selected to develop.
He is an athletic freak, and knows the game but at an amateur level.
He may come on really quick.
I like the way Russell wants to strengthen him up to AFL standard before next season comes around.

We need a stop gap, like Hawks did with McEvoy.
Who knew he was going to continue playing this long.
What would you offer the Hawks for their captain?

Its a pity Kreuzer's body failed him and left us with an inexperienced average ruck, with a big heart in Pittonet, who since injured have left a skinny 22yo to take the No 1 mantle when he shouldnt be anything but No. 2 this year.

Lets hope TDK improves a lot the next preseason.
I think those skinny legs and hips are going to need another 3 preseasons to compete with the heavier, stronger bodies.

Finf another one, McEvoy highly unlikely, unless we offer a 1st or 2nd rounder, and McEvoy may not be interested in moving at his age....and at his age, he may be at the end of his career during 2022.
GWS have Mumford, Preuss, Flynn and Briggs. Mumford will retire again. So Flynn and Preuss will fight for No 1. Flynn has had a good year. How about we chase Preuss? He is obviously happy to change clubs to find that No 1 spot.

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YES ... if he passes a fitness test

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:36 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22924
Location: Bondi Beach
sinbagger wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
DesEnglish wrote:
Is the plan for Mirkov and TDK ato be the ruck/fwd combo moving forward?

If that’s the case I’d chase a stop gap experienced ruck for a couple of years. Wonder if the Hawks would trade McEvoy


I've been saying this fo a long time.
I have a history of respecting the role of ruckmen.
In fact, I wouldn't go into a Grand Final with one, unless the 2nd is Med Sub.

You realise how important a ruckman is when you don't have an AA ruckman facing the 4 other AA ruckmen in the land.

No doubt Mirkov is selected to develop.
He is an athletic freak, and knows the game but at an amateur level.
He may come on really quick.
I like the way Russell wants to strengthen him up to AFL standard before next season comes around.

We need a stop gap, like Hawks did with McEvoy.
Who knew he was going to continue playing this long.
What would you offer the Hawks for their captain?

Its a pity Kreuzer's body failed him and left us with an inexperienced average ruck, with a big heart in Pittonet, who since injured have left a skinny 22yo to take the No 1 mantle when he shouldnt be anything but No. 2 this year.

Lets hope TDK improves a lot the next preseason.
I think those skinny legs and hips are going to need another 3 preseasons to compete with the heavier, stronger bodies.

Finf another one, McEvoy highly unlikely, unless we offer a 1st or 2nd rounder, and McEvoy may not be interested in moving at his age....and at his age, he may be at the end of his career during 2022.


I think Pittonet is all we need for now, he’s not good enough that he’ll keep TDK or Mircov out of the team if they play well enough, but he is good enough to compete with most rucks going round while they develop.


Is all we need? or All we have? Big diffference

Is Pitto better than a fit Preuss?

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 2:38 pm 
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Bert Deacon

Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:51 pm
Posts: 546
we should look at 3 teams footscray ,syd,richmond all these clubs have good players that cant get a game and see what happens


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:56 am 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 6:11 pm
Posts: 14235
If you believe reports in the paper we have a very tight salary cap.
HUN mentions the contract sizes of several players and says we may struggle to fit Walsh in for the contract he deserves.
I hope this is not true as we had so much space only a couple of years ago.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:48 am 
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Geoff Southby
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:40 pm
Posts: 5815
kezza wrote:
If you believe reports in the paper we have a very tight salary cap.
HUN mentions the contract sizes of several players and says we may struggle to fit Walsh in for the contract he deserves.
I hope this is not true as we had so much space only a couple of years ago.


Terrifying thought hey Kezz...............struggling to pay Walsh ?

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:55 am 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:38 pm
Posts: 7640
Not sure we should believe the Hun in terms of salary cap
John Anderson when not crashing his car into pizza shops when he is boozed isn’t the most reliable I would have thought

Maybe if Caro was saying it it might have some credibility next we will be worried because the pooper scooper is saying something


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 11:08 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:39 pm
Posts: 1002
kezza wrote:
If you believe reports in the paper we have a very tight salary cap.
HUN mentions the contract sizes of several players and says we may struggle to fit Walsh in for the contract he deserves.
I hope this is not true as we had so much space only a couple of years ago.


I don't believe we are tight on salary cap. Media reports supposed contract value, but these are usually the cashed up amounts including bonuses and often don't cover front ended vs back ended contracts.

I don't believe that McGovern would have got his full entitlement, Martin was very heavy first year to allow him to walk through PSD and their is no mention of the bank up space that we had before signing Saad and Williams.

Interesting that media reports from start of year saying that we still have wriggle room and despite Cripps signing for less than expected we now are suddenly tight.... :confused:


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 Post subject: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 11:57 am 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 8166
Location: Australia
I think many of the larger contracts are heavily front loaded as we had to use up a certain percentage of our salary cap. I think we will have space when it comes time to pay Walsh.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:56 pm 
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Banned

Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:55 pm
Posts: 2333
There's your base annual salary + match payments + bonuses.

There is no way Gov would be on a base annual salary of $750k .. if you include match payments and bonuses then maybe.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:55 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22924
Location: Bondi Beach
Mickstar wrote:
kezza wrote:
If you believe reports in the paper we have a very tight salary cap.
HUN mentions the contract sizes of several players and says we may struggle to fit Walsh in for the contract he deserves.
I hope this is not true as we had so much space only a couple of years ago.


Terrifying thought hey Kezz...............struggling to pay Walsh ?



Have a look at the numbers he's spruiked in his rubbisg article in the trash paper.

He doesn't say Carlton HAVE a problem.

Quote:
The other issue for Carlton over the next two seasons is an extremely tight salary cap that is going to have to find room for emerging superstar’s Sam Walsh new deal as he comes out of contract at the end of 2022.


Issue?
Extremely tight salary cap?
Find room?....well he hasn't said we haven't got room. He's playing on emotions of the reader. An overreaction by the reader, and his comment becomes fact. Rubbish.

Quote:
Patrick Cripps, Adam Saad, Zac Williams, Harry McKay, Mitch McGovern and Jack Martin are all in the $750,000 and over bracket which could see someone like Jack Silvagni offered far less than his 2021 form deserves.


He has no idea what the front ended payments are.
He doesn't know Cripps salary.
Jack's 2 year deal will be made public. No issues there.

Quote:
It might even mean Walsh is paid under market value.


He didn't state that Walsh will reject an offer, and did state Walsh will be paid.

Cripps' contract aside because its brand new, lets put that aside.
Martin reported $700K per season. $1M front loaded.
Saad reported Essendon* matched the $650K Carlton offered. ie not overpaid
Williams reported to be $50K more than the final offer from GWS which was $700K ie not overpaid.

We had room to get another trade done last year but couldn't get contracted players over the line, hence the balance of the 105% front loaded Williams, or whoever.
The club has stated we have room for another 2 stars end of this year. There must be plenty of room for Walsh and cripps and Cripps stated he took unders to allow us to target more stars as we build a Premiership team.

I'm not worried one bit, because of the source of this article. After all its Jon Anderson and The Herald Sun. How can anyone trust either? Naive would.

They don't let the truth get in the way of a good story that sells papers. Money is their purpose in life, not reporting the truth.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:01 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22924
Location: Bondi Beach
Walsh wrote:
There's your base annual salary + match payments + bonuses.

There is no way Gov would be on a base annual salary of $750k .. if you include match payments and bonuses then maybe.


Govs manager stated Gov didnt leave for money, after the infamous preseason Camp at the Crows. His manager also stated Gov's contract wasn't anywhere near the figures in the media, $650 or $700, so how Anderson comes up with $750 4 years down the track.


He got a huge front loaded payments in 2018 and 2019 because we were not paying the plethora of kids we drafted anything but the minimum wage. Had to park the excess somewhere, and its not a burden as some suggest in 2020 or 2021, or 2022.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:03 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22924
Location: Bondi Beach
sinbagger wrote:
I think many of the larger contracts are heavily front loaded as we had to use up a certain percentage of our salary cap. I think we will have space when it comes time to pay Walsh.


As if we have not planned in Walsh's value.

The word is the club and his manager are currently working on a 5 year contract before we enter the next Trade period.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:04 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22924
Location: Bondi Beach
frank dardew wrote:
Not sure we should believe the Hun in terms of salary cap
John Anderson when not crashing his car into pizza shops when he is boozed isn’t the most reliable I would have thought

Maybe if Caro was saying it it might have some credibility next we will be worried because the pooper scooper is saying something


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Forgot about his stack. :grin:

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:48 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22924
Location: Bondi Beach
For those who believe some of the rubbish coming from the Herald Sun regarding salary cap squeeze.

Here's another from the Herald Sun, stating the opposite.

Of course there's plenty of room to sign Walsh to a 5 year deal.

Quote:
Carlton has made strong progress on a bumper contract extension of up to five years for superstar midfielder Sam Walsh.

Having locked away skipper Patrick Cripps and Coleman Medal favourite Harry McKay in recent months, the Blues have now fixed their attention on securing Walsh’s signature long before he comes out of contract at the end of next season.

Watch The 2021 Toyota AFL Premiership Season Live & On-Demand on Kayo. New to Kayo? Try 14-Days Free Now >

Some have suggested 21-year-old Walsh could be the AFL’s next million-dollar man off the back of his extraordinarily good 2021 season.

The 2018 No. 1 pick is one of the Brownlow Medal favourites and a short-priced favourite to win the Blues’ best and fairest award ahead of McKay.

A four-year extension would take him through to free agency, but the Blues are understood to be willing to lock him away for five extra years, tying him to the club until the end of 2027.

While a deal is not imminent, the Blues are confident Walsh won’t head into 2022 without a new deal in place, as talks between the club and his management are “moving nicely”.

A Walsh deal could cost the club between $4 million and $5 million, but the club is confident it has enough space in the coming years to keep the man considered the next captain.

Leading football analyst Matthew Lloyd said earlier this year that Walsh was as important a signing as Cripps for the Blues, saying he expected a five-year deal of around $800,000 per season was a suitable return.


https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/moneyball-follow-all-the-latest-trade-contract-and-draft-news-across-the-afl/news-story/784fd6dad903df05723a23564ae81205

Funny how the Herald Sun changes, as Mark Robinson describes, from its "merciless" attack on Carlton, to stating the facts when Mark Robinson is away on sick leave.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:50 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22924
Location: Bondi Beach
The Cerra talk is heating up.

Last night Gerad Healy, On the Couch almost begged Cerra not to leave Freo

Quote:
CARLTON’S Sam Petrevski-Seton has a big decision to make as he weighs up interest from Fremantle.

The No. 6 draft pick is out of contract at season’s end and will consider his future midfield prospects with the Blues against the opportunity to make a fresh start for the Dockers in 2022.

It means Petrevski-Seton, 23, could be involved in a swap for Fremantle midfielder Adam Cerra if he departs the Dockers to return home to Victoria.

The Blues held a scheduled list management meeting late this week with Cerra and out-of-contract Bulldog Patrick Lipinski was believed to have been part of the discussions.


Where there's smoke.....

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:59 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:24 pm
Posts: 5537
Location: Bridge, Starship Enterprise
In one regard it may be a good thing if we are just a little tight on the money side.

It will make the buying of players less attractive to drafting.

That is get the kids, those who want to play not those who want the money.

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