Talking Carlton Index Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington CFC Home CFC Membership CFC Shop CFC Fixture Blueseum
It is currently Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:37 am

All times are UTC + 10 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 746 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 ... 38  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:21 pm 
Offline
Robert Walls
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:40 pm
Posts: 3750
Oops ! Ronnie Barassi that is.............that bloke changed the course of The Carlton Football Club..................be bold and daring Blues and history will repeat.

_________________
All my dangerous friends


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:05 pm 
Offline
Harry Vallence
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:55 pm
Posts: 1699
2-3 quality key midfielders. Backline and forward line is good... came along nicely.

Midfield is a sad joke and needs big investment.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:23 pm 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 16480
Location: Bondi Beach
Mickstar wrote:
david31 wrote:
Chitty wrote:
Remember Henderson, soft as butter, no aggression, didn't want to be at Carlton..took him a few years to finally develop some intensity and guts..unfortunately he had to go to another club to find those attributes.
They've got some great leaders at Geelong,,have had for a long time..don't think some of our players would last long there..

Agreed Chitty
Walk into Geelong and you’ve got Selwood who would give anything just to win the toss before the game, let alone a contested ball. You’ve also got Chris Scott who can blow his lid at any given moment.
Compare that to our “leaders” and coaches and it becomes obvious why our players don’t all get the best out of themselves.
I still remember an interview with Murphy from early 2019 after McGovern turned up overweight and out of condition and he was telling the media that the boys had nicknamed him brackets and that he would be getting into the cupcakes the hardest (it was someone’s birthday and they had cupcakes). Imagine if Jeremy Cameron had rocked up at Geelong overweight. Would Selwood be laughing and effectively condoning it? Obviously a very trivial matter but did show the mindset of our club. Accepting mediocrity. Little standards


Yep............get Selwood to the club...........someone who does,not say.................Demons have reaped the benefits of Lewis's presence,same Lions with Hodge..................instead of getting someone who talks the talk,get someone who walks the walk.That man is Selwood............we did it with Marassi all those years ago and it set us up for thirty years plus.Get daring Blues.George Harris,Laurie Kerr,Bugsy Comben,Wes Lofts etc etc those blokes acted,they didn't talk.


I was thinking a long the same lines a couple days ago.

Great people, highly respected but really tough. They made the tough decisions and expected unconditional efforts and excellence.

I believe Carlton stuffed up when the executive loosened their control and high standards and expectations when the senior players, and legends, called the shots with the threat to leave. Basically that was the start rot and the tail wagging the dog: Bradley, Silvagni, Allan... giving them what they want, and allowed Whitnall to stack on weight and made him captain to lead by example (what a great example).

_________________
Time for a Reality check. Teague wants the players to have fun at his expense...see yu


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 3:34 pm 
Offline
Ken Hands

Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:51 pm
Posts: 488
we need 2 more mids that are tough/quick burst players ,but my problem is why did sos recruit setters and kennedy both same types


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:38 pm 
Offline
Robert Walls
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:40 pm
Posts: 3750
Yep Bondi,that was the start.Thats when the rot set in.All those years ago and we still haven't righted the ship................pathetic aint it.

_________________
All my dangerous friends


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:14 pm 
Offline
Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 3819
Location: Bendigo
Matty Scarlett had a great line back in his heyday. “Midfielders are cheap, forwards are soft.”

Biased, for sure :lol: but there’s no shortage of evidence to support him. There might be a dozen mids in the comp that can change the course of a game by themselves, but the ranks are swollen on the next rung down, where you can have 20 touches without being noticed. The next rung below that is where you find the blokes that are coached well enough to play off the ball, in the pockets and on the flanks, to keep the game alive for the headline acts.

Point is, you can make a good midfield from all sorts of scraps if they’re coached well enough.

_________________
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" - Winston Churchill.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:33 pm 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 16480
Location: Bondi Beach
Crusader wrote:
Matty Scarlett had a great line back in his heyday. “Midfielders are cheap, forwards are soft.”

Biased, for sure :lol: but there’s no shortage of evidence to support him. There might be a dozen mids in the comp that can change the course of a game by themselves, but the ranks are swollen on the next rung down, where you can have 20 touches without being noticed. The next rung below that is where you find the blokes that are coached well enough to play off the ball, in the pockets and on the flanks, to keep the game alive for the headline acts.

Point is, you can make a good midfield from all sorts of scraps if they’re coached well enough.



Great post.

Food for thought.

There's truth in that last line.

_________________
Time for a Reality check. Teague wants the players to have fun at his expense...see yu


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:26 pm 
Offline
Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:52 pm
Posts: 1826
Nah

Plenty of first-rate backlines assembled with rookies and late draft picks including probably the best one in Geelong. They're the easiest / cheapest players to find. E.g. Parks second round of the rookie draft.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:28 pm 
Offline
Harry Vallence
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:55 pm
Posts: 1699
You can make a good midfield from scraps that can barely get a game at VFL.

If you can't kick straight, can't tackle, can't read the game what you gonna do, give crabs games. We've been doing that for 20 years.

Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis,
Cotchin, Prestia, Martin
Diesel, Bradley, Ratten


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 4:12 pm 
Offline
Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 3819
Location: Bendigo
Walsh wrote:
You can make a good midfield from scraps that can barely get a game at VFL.

If you can't kick straight, can't tackle, can't read the game what you gonna do, give crabs games. We've been doing that for 20 years.

Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis,
Cotchin, Prestia, Martin
Diesel, Bradley, Ratten

You’re about 8-10 names short on each of those examples.

_________________
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" - Winston Churchill.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 4:38 pm 
Offline
Robert Walls
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:40 pm
Posts: 3750
Regardless,i would be giving Jack and Plowman a go in the guts.Big blokes,surely they could get a touch in there.Surely.Change it up.

_________________
All my dangerous friends


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 4:43 pm 
Offline
Robert Walls
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:40 pm
Posts: 3750
PS.........i had the pleasure and PRIVILEGE to watch Jack's pa Sergio play.An absolute tractor.........more in fact,a D9..........maybe the apple hasn't dropped far from the tree.

_________________
All my dangerous friends


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:48 pm 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 15421
We have options to try in the midfield. The coaches just choose not to do it.
Zac Fisher has excellent ground ball qualities but we're making him a forward. Fogarty has won the ball numerous times when given a shot in the middle but we give him few opportunities. Our midfield isn't elite but it's nowhere near as bad a stated here. We have 2 elite midfielders when we play a game style that suits their strengths. Add Fisher, Curnow, Jack Martin, a fit Zac Williams and Cuningham, Dow and with emerging mids in Philp, Ramsay, Kemp, Carroll, we have a decent base.
This year and the previous 2 years we've been top 4 in the AFL for clearances. It's mostly in redtime that we're being murdered. That's more about sharing the load than quality. The coaches need to put more faith in the group outside the preferred 3 or 4.

_________________
Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:11 pm 
Offline
Harry Vallence
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:55 pm
Posts: 1699
Our midfield is worse statistically.

Ranked last allowing opposition in clearances
Ranked last tackles differential
Ranked last allowing opposition inside 50s

Not sure what game some people are watching. These have been the normal stats for years... its not something new seems supporters have been conditioned to shitness.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:33 pm 
Offline
Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
Posts: 3003
Blue Vain wrote:
We have options to try in the midfield. The coaches just choose not to do it.
Zac Fisher has excellent ground ball qualities but we're making him a forward. Fogarty has won the ball numerous times when given a shot in the middle but we give him few opportunities. Our midfield isn't elite but it's nowhere near as bad a stated here. We have 2 elite midfielders when we play a game style that suits their strengths. Add Fisher, Curnow, Jack Martin, a fit Zac Williams and Cuningham, Dow and with emerging mids in Philp, Ramsay, Kemp, Carroll, we have a decent base.
This year and the previous 2 years we've been top 4 in the AFL for clearances. It's mostly in redtime that we're being murdered. That's more about sharing the load than quality. The coaches need to put more faith in the group outside the preferred 3 or 4.


Could not agree more...it's almost as though the line about not having enough mids is a safety blanket for supporters to rationalise where we are at

Teague (and/or his assistants) have refused to spread the load and develop capabilty in the midfield, resorting to playing players in their unnatural positions as a way of demonstrating that he' playing the kids

It then creates a divisive culture, the exact opposite of culture that any leader in any organisation should be working toward

_________________
If I want your opinion, I'll give it to you!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:02 pm 
Offline
Wayne Johnston
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:32 am
Posts: 8931
@Walsh I’m curious in your thoughts.
Can you please explain why you think SPS, Stocker, O’Brien, Kennedy and Fisher aren’t given a decent run through the midfield, including wings. What am I missing that makes me such a bad judge?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:06 pm 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 16480
Location: Bondi Beach
Mickstar wrote:
Regardless,i would be giving Jack and Plowman a go in the guts.Big blokes,surely they could get a touch in there.Surely.Change it up.


I'm right into thisidea.

Plowman played wing at GWS.
Better than Tomlison.

Always wished for Marchbank or Plowman to be pushed to wing, but in the guts.
That's a gutsy call.

Jack has done it, but he's been picked as the 2nd or 3rd tall forward.

Worth Robbing Peter to pay Paul

_________________
Time for a Reality check. Teague wants the players to have fun at his expense...see yu


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:24 pm 
Offline
Wayne Johnston
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:32 am
Posts: 8931
bondiblue wrote:
Mickstar wrote:
Regardless,i would be giving Jack and Plowman a go in the guts.Big blokes,surely they could get a touch in there.Surely.Change it up.


I'm right into thisidea.

Plowman played wing at GWS.
Better than Tomlison.

Always wished for Marchbank or Plowman to be pushed to wing, but in the guts.
That's a gutsy call.

Jack has done it, but he's been picked as the 2nd or 3rd tall forward.

Worth Robbing Peter to pay Paul


Sorry guys need run, carry and clean disposal. These 2 are more inside grunt.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:55 am 
Offline
Craig Bradley

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:38 pm
Posts: 6538
Maybe Surrey but like the out of the box thoughts and is the type of thinking we need going forward to improve the rotation in the midfield give us some greater grunt and at least give us another look

Don’t understand why Fisher wouldn’t play more in midfield Fogarty seems to have dropped off in midfield rotation
JSOS has been injured but hasn’t really played in midfield for 2 years

A few weeks ago richmond had a dearth of midfielders so Baker went into the middle
Bolton went into the middle last year
I don’t see that type of thought at Carlton and is disappointing but symptomatic of the approach of coaching


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:23 am 
Offline
Harry Vallence
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:55 pm
Posts: 1699
SurreyBlue wrote:
@Walsh I’m curious in your thoughts.
Can you please explain why you think SPS, Stocker, O’Brien, Kennedy and Fisher aren’t given a decent run through the midfield, including wings. What am I missing that makes me such a bad judge?


SPS is a chip kicker with low intensity that gets caught with the ball alot. His decision making doesn't seem to go past 5 meters. We can pick these type of players up in Country football.
Stocker I love his game ad the type of player you need in the middle - questionable tank but one I'd like to see to be give a bigger opportunity.
O'Brien have watched him 2-3 games at VFL level - not good enough - for someone who is supposedly a good kick sure knows how to stuff them up more regularly than not. Will get eaten alive if he lines up against Whitfield, Isaac Smith, Ed Langdon and the like
Kennedy not good enough barely dominating second tier football.. for top tier mids need 25-30 posessions + 4-7 tackles at minimum and consistently. I like Bam Bam has been given opportunity and showed exactly why he is VFL standard.
Fisher - The best of the bad lot. Good tenacity, good skills, smart player, good decision maker - poor overhead and suspect to getting pushed off the ball too easily.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 746 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 ... 38  Next

All times are UTC + 10 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: DesEnglish, Heavs, jezzarules, Majestic-12 [Bot] and 20 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group