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 Post subject: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:50 am 
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John James

Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:59 pm
Posts: 671
david31 wrote:
Steve_C7 wrote:
Navy Blue Horse wrote:
Zach Merrett has signed at * for 6 years


Great news, you can't buy your way to success.

We need to keep every first round pick and invest in it - do the research and use it wisely.

Where would we be if we didn't have Walsh, McKay, Curnow and Weitering?

Agreed
We need to get our own house in order before trying to recruit any more big money players. Resolve the cultural and coaching issues and then we may be close to actually achieving something so we can recruit to take us to the next level. At this point, with our culture, coaching and development the way it is, overpaying some more recruits will just be wallpaper over some very large cracks.
Doubt this will be an issue anyway as I can’t see many quality players knocking down the door to get into the club at the end of the year.


I think the Martin, Wiiliams and Saad contracts were front ended because we had space in the cap. Doesn’t bother me if they front end to get quality players. But pisses me off when they give up first round picks. They should be trading up to get another elite midfielder or two. Walsh was an amazing pick. We’d be losing games by fifty points plus this year without his creative and determined play this season (with Cripps clearly injured or way out of form all year).


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:26 am 
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Rod Ashman
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Agree. Keep the current list together, top up each year as aging players retire or delist, use our early draft picks on young talent and bring in role type players around the fringes for cheap money as needed.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:24 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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carntheblues wrote:
Agree. Keep the current list together, top up each year as aging players retire or delist, use our early draft picks on young talent and bring in role type players around the fringes for cheap money as needed.


Yep ! cherrypick on a needs basis.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:43 am 
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Seems that Matt Randall has decided to grow a brain - didnt think it was possible with him

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/blu ... 58138.html


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 11:52 am 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:38 pm
Posts: 7640
Yes article quite good what he doesn’t say is why have some players gone backwards or not developed - doesn’t mention the Coach or the game plan selection integrity either as factors
Doesn’t acknowledge the impact of injuries
Though I would argue are lesser issues than the coaching and development and game plan structure


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:01 pm 
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Development is fine three players in his improved list are 23 and under.

Dow and SPS are not the only players that should be measured how good development is.

There are more players than two that have played 50 games or under. Need to take a holistic approach rather than two cooked youngsters.

Its unfair to judge coaching after one full season in a hub but game plan can be tweaked and improved and I have been critical of the game plan as well but thats an easy fix.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 2:06 pm 
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Bert Deacon

Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:51 pm
Posts: 546
developed ,gone backwards more bullsh..t maybe players arent good enough do they really want it ?


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 2:15 pm 
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jamespul65 wrote:
developed ,gone backwards more bullsh..t maybe players arent good enough do they really want it ?


Need our best players training together every session and be present on match day together for at least a year to build cohesion to take on the top four imo.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 2:18 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17517
Forget the top 4.
Let's just worry about performing to our potential and playing for 4 quarters in a game first.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:34 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:38 pm
Posts: 7640
Agree BV how about once in the season play hard nosed sustainable football for 4 quarters and be uncompromising in both attack and defence

And walshy you want to give the coach a leave pass when we are 4-12 and chronically underachieved and underperformed for the whole season
It not his fault solely but blaming everyone else when he has been coach for almost 2 years is stretching credibility

10 weeks to get this team playing a sustainable consistent brand of footy and if the team has a stinker tonight and don’t turn up more heat will come for him and rightly so
He isn’t the whole problem but a big part of it


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:44 pm 
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frank dardew wrote:
Agree BV how about once in the season play hard nosed sustainable football for 4 quarters and be uncompromising in both attack and defence

And walshy you want to give the coach a leave pass when we are 4-12 and chronically underachieved and underperformed for the whole season
It not his fault solely but blaming everyone else when he has been coach for almost 2 years is stretching credibility

10 weeks to get this team playing a sustainable consistent brand of footy and if the team has a stinker tonight and don’t turn up more heat will come for him and rightly so
He isn’t the whole problem but a big part of it


Don't think it serves any purpose to slag off the coach on a consistent basis after one year and myriad of injuries.

If he hasn't lost the players and performances could be improved with personnel and game plan tweaking what purpose does it serve to slag our coach after one year. Makes no sense and sounds agenda driven. This club has had enough upheaval past few years - not sure what another coach would do better what if we were being beaten by minimum 30 pts instead of maximum with another coach?

Have to give it time to play out. When our 2015 crop hit 25-27 years old they must be setting the standards and part of Teague's job is to ensure they do it. But after a full year and first half being riddled with injuries playing top teams that had full list is just not thinking things through appropriately.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:39 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:38 pm
Posts: 7640
No one is coach slagging mate 4-12 objectively isn’t good do you really think he has coached well this year
Do you really think he optimally is getting the best out of the list
Do you think he has players executing a good sustainable game plan
Do you think a coach should have a key role in developing players
If players are seen to go backwards in performance do you think that the coach has some responsibility

If players continually play 3 out of 4 quarters in matches do you think the coach has some responsibility

Do you think that it is a reflection in part of the coach if his side is seen by other sides as soft

Do you think any of this is a reflection on the head coach


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:16 pm 
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frank dardew wrote:
No one is coach slagging mate 4-12 objectively isn’t good do you really think he has coached well this year
Do you really think he optimally is getting the best out of the list
Do you think he has players executing a good sustainable game plan
Do you think a coach should have a key role in developing players
If players are seen to go backwards in performance do you think that the coach has some responsibility

If players continually play 3 out of 4 quarters in matches do you think the coach has some responsibility

Do you think that it is a reflection in part of the coach if his side is seen by other sides as soft

Do you think any of this is a reflection on the head coach


How can he get the best out of the list when he has been in the job for one full year and that has been in the hub and first half of the year half the list was on crutches.... he made an error of not waving any magic wands. This is completely pointless and ridiculous. You have an axe to grind I get it - enjoy it. Such supporters.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:33 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:38 pm
Posts: 7640
No you are the one running the agenda and will not recognise the present deficiencies in his performance and what matters he should be accountable or responsible for
The rest of us think at 4-12 he isn’t performing if you are happy with that and think he is going well then I suspect you are in the category of 5 percent of Carlton members and supporters but you are rtiyled to that view
However contrary To your view if he was going as well as you say he is then why is the club having an external review of the football department half way through the season
Doesn’t that even suggest to you that the board and CEO to have such a review not at the end of the season as is normal but halfway through the season thinks there has being gross underperformance and when we are 14 th of an 18 team competition is that an acceptable performance with our list even taking into account injuries

Once again it is not his fault solely but surely he is responsible and accountable for the issues I raised in the previous post


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:45 pm 
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frank dardew wrote:
No you are the one running the agenda and will not recognise the present deficiencies in his performance and what matters he should be accountable or responsible for
The rest of us think at 4-12 he isn’t performing if you are happy with that and think he is going well then I suspect you are in the category of 5 percent of Carlton members and supporters but you are rtiyled to that view
However contrary To your view if he was going as well as you say he is then why is the club having an external review of the football department half way through the season
Doesn’t that even suggest to you that the board and CEO to have such a review not at the end of the season as is normal but halfway through the season thinks there has being gross underperformance and when we are 14 th of an 18 team competition is that an acceptable performance with our list even taking into account injuries

Once again it is not his fault solely but surely he is responsible and accountable for the issues I raised in the previous post


H, Weitering on track to win AA
Rookies like Parks, Owies performing above expectations
Walsh on track for B&F
Jones solid
Stocker has shown AFL qualities on few occassions
Dow hasnt changed his ways since his debut and should be reprogrammed in VFL.

Fisher has been injured and been playing on and off past year so has Martin

Williams not coping but better past couple of games - Leaders in Docherty and Cripps need to pull the finger out and play elite football unconditionally as club leaders.

Charlie and Marchbank have been missing.. TDK has had injury problems...Newman has had injury problems....Plowman could do better as a senior player.

Kennedy hopefully improves but dont see it coming - hope I'm wrong. Setterfield needs to pull his finger out sent to VFL to find his tackling form again and now injured again.

I am realistic that we are playing football to expectation - not going to beat top sides with key players out and they have a full list to choose from.

What else is there other than sound bites?


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:11 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:38 pm
Posts: 7640
Ok give you H Weitering Walsh and Owies have been good but given their quality why aren’t we winning more games and the answer is the rest of the team are underperforming and who is primarily responsible for that it is the coach
Parks jury is out last game was very poor and has been in and out of side hopefully he makes it


Now what about The rest of the list are any of them playing better than last year -NO and some are horrendous when compared to last year Pitto Newnes Setterfield Willo Cripps Docherty SPS casboult Murphy that’s a whole lot of senior players
Arguably saad and Williams are playing worse than they were at Essendon* and GWS respectively last year

Are we being beaten in a similar way as last year the answer is yes
Is our game plan effective no 4-12
Do we impose defensive pressure at all other and are we respected by other teams answer is no

All goes to why we need external review after 12 th game and goes to in my review why the position of the coach has to be reviewed seriously as part of this review


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:20 pm 
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You think they are underperforming fair enough albeit unrealistic expectation.
Playing top teams with injurioes to key players while they have a full list to choose from not going to assist W-L all we can expect is that they crack in as hard as possible for as long as possible.

Brisbane - Geelong - Melbourne have had the most stable starting 22 in the competition thats where we need to get to in the interim just need to keep developing depth in the VFL.

Clarkson the super coach will be pushing wooden spoon this year is he under performing? I say he isn't - we are in the same boat except they excel in the midfield where our engine room is a joke and has been for years and we excel everywhere else and thus we are where we are. Fingers crossed Carrol comes on to add to elite midfield depth as we just have ball butchers.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 12:21 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Our structures and setups are a shambles.
Forget injuries, etc. Watch our players run back to defend space, watch the opposition players run passed them and create space. Watch our players refuse to win the ball but wait for the opposition to win and then either try and tackle them or worse hold their space and give them time to execute a disposal.
Watch our players look at each other not knowing what to do. Watch our players have little confidence in knowing what to do or each other, except kick it blindly long down the line. Watch our players have no system in run and carry into our F50.
It’s coaching and up until today, I was still not 100% in sacking Teague but he is done.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 7:47 am 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 5959
It’s recruiting.
Start again
Trade Cripps SPS
Get 4 picks in the first 40
Start another rebuild
Drop players for lack of effort regardless of the money their on


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2021
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:33 am 
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Hopefully we can free up some TPP end of year with front end contracts winding down and hopefully McGov, Murphy, Betts on their way could potentially have in excess of $1.8m.

Would not trade Cripps but rather bring in more elite midfield talent.

Hopefully Carrol continues to improve to add more options next season.

If we dont start tackling hitting targets and break even in clearances we are not going anywhere and highly doubt 18 year olds will help us improve next year. Keep hitting the draft but need quality experienced players.


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