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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:17 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:52 pm
Posts: 1857
bondiblue wrote:
david 31 from the Match Dat thread

Quote:
Remember when Teague brought an offensive game plan to the club. When he wanted us to be daring and look to score. We used to use the corridor and take the game on. Now we just kick long down the line and lead to the pockets. So predictable and so easy to defend against. Very average to watch


I was saying the same thing to a mate.

In the last 6 games we have avearged 45 points a game.
Prior to that we were the only team in the comp to have scored over 50 points in every game.

Something has drastically changed.
McGovern's inclusion. Yes that's one.
Players aren't listening to the coach?
Or they are playing by playing "our way".
Anyne know which way we've been playing the last 6 weeks?


Our game plan has been worked out, probably starting most glaringly by Clarkson and we haven't been able to adapt. Hard to tell on TV not being at the game but teams seem to be clogging up the corridor prepared to give us the wings knowing we'll struggle to move the ball. Or even if we get it inside 50 we'll keep bombing it (GWS, Collingwood and Sydney games clear examples), as we are probably the worst team 80 metres out from our goal.

Doesn't help Casboult being completely out of form over the last few weeks, he was the outlet kick quite often on the wing but he doesn't seem to be grabbing anything.

On the flipside when the opposition get a break they run the ball through the middle and given our backline is probably the slowest in the AFL - other than Jones none of them even have any semblance of pace, we can't track back.

Big issues to fix over the pre-season by the coach.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:20 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 23030
Location: Bondi Beach
Blue Sombrero wrote:
WOW wrote:
The most important things I wanted to see this year was a marked improvement in our second tier running/midfield players such as Dow, O’Brien, Cunningham, Fisher, SPS & Setterfield.

Apart from Setterfield, it just has not eventuated.

Our rebuild will be a failure if they don’t start improving quickly.

If you are going to hang your hat on rebuilding through early and more picks through the draft, then we have failed if these players don’t develop to the standard expected to win premierships.


The MC picked three ins that are ground level players. LOB is an endurance freak with a great left leg. It was obvious to me from the selection that we were going to run the ball through the middle.
Did they use LOB's strengths?
No.
Did they play Gibbo in the mid field where he has played his best footy for us?
No.
Did Eddie have space to move around in in the F50?
No.

So why flowering pick them?

LOB will be dropped because he didn't rack up possessions in a chippy chippy down the line for almost three quarters that doesn't suit his skillset. He had a few possies late and when he took that one hander I said to my wife's uncle,
"This boy is a beautiful kick. This will be a goal."
SPS was back to his 14 metre passes sideways this week except for a few times he tried to penetrate and it came off but he will probably be remembered for getting caught HTB in the last five minutes when he was trying to break the lines.
Willo has such a beautiful left foot but how many times did he use it to create aopportunities through the centre. Even on the TV I could see they are not allowed to do it. Two players alone in the centre of the ground and he just followed the team plan of chippy chippy or long down the boundary.

Where is the team that ran Geelong off its feet?
Where is the team that ran the Dogs ragged?

The expectation of most of us was that a 10-12 finish would be a good result for the year but they showed us in those early games that they had the capacity to beat the good teams and actually make a statement and finish inside the eight. I think that's why we are all so pissed off now is that we know they are good enough, all they have to do is turn up and play four quarters of attacking footy. But they have gone back to the BB/MM game plan that is twenty years out of date. It's OK to do it when you are trying to control the tempo of the game for a few minutes but it should be plan B to stop a five goal run by the other team and not the only way you attack the goals.


@#$%&! BS you are spot on

chippy chippy chirp chirp

the game plan has lost its spunk or in trying to stop the weekly 5 goal run of goals they moves to plug the leak has back fired. Needs fixing

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:20 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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verbs wrote:
Yeah nah. Simpson is exactly what the needed modern footballer is in 2020. A warrior on the ground never giving up but a human being not a robot once the siren sounds.

If that's all we think it takes, then best we get comfortable and enjoy our permanent seat in the 3rd row.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:25 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Donstuie wrote:
verbs wrote:
Yeah nah. Simpson is exactly what the needed modern footballer is in 2020. A warrior on the ground never giving up but a human being not a robot once the siren sounds.

If that's all we think it takes, then best we get comfortable and enjoy our permanent seat in the 3rd row.


We and everyone else. The pseudo-mumbojubo angst is a long way from what it takes to win a flag or two. It needs a group of highly skilled and committed players (like Simpson), players playing to a game plan, and a bit of luck with injury. Even then a premiership isn’t a certainty. But the Justin Langer mumbo jumbo rubbish won’t get us there.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:27 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 23030
Location: Bondi Beach
dannyboy wrote:
I wonder:

I wonder if this team is not Teague's team?

I wonder if Teague's team will have Cripps and Setters and Walsh; the rest he will cast off, not his type - whatever that means.
I wonder if the Gov will be set free, to wander some distant desert land talking a crock of shit while sipping tea - 'oh Lawrence, remember the good old days when the Arabs and we went dancing with the camels?'
I wonder if Fish is doomed to never dance in the center again, a bridesman never a groom? Or worse he too, to make room for a new crop of 'whomevers' that Teague claims as his own.

I wonder if this club is paid by the anguish is brings is a reverse bizarre world to the one that once brought joy, fishing up wins like a plethora of John the Baptist head's bleeding on the platter of our third quarters?And in my ears still rings the pounding of the signage, ah the glory of the yesteryears - who remembers? Who recalls with me the days of gold and plunder?

I wonder what side we might be when we scored every scored rather than one of our two or three?
I wonder if Weitering is sad and sore knowing his body carries the weight of a backline - will he, like Cripps, find Atlas was a god and so a mantle no man can maintain?
I wonder if Harry secretly loves Gov cos he shines all the brighter in that sow's ear of empty illusions - and if so beware, beware the Jabberwocky Curnow the younger, beware the jibbedy-jab that sends your talent trickling into this century's long line of Carlton could-have-beens - perhaps have a chat with Gibbs if you're around Curnow lad, talk to him about missed opportunities. Beware the tale that tells the story of Harry as the one who stood tallest while you fell into the endless cycle of disrepair.

I wonder if Kemp feels a strain on the knee already as expectations grow that he is the next in the hunched-shoulders and weary eyes of so many dismayed saviors?
I wonder if Essendon** and Carlton are in a heroic struggle to the bottom of the pit? It is too close to call that tussle between the pride and folly of two clubs so lost in the shadows, like moons fallen to the silent lands beneath.
I wonder if I will ever believe again?

Am I then damaged, fallen, lost, trussed up in the twine of too many gloriously explored avenues to losing?
Carlton my Carlton, I remember and that memory makes the present so much harder to bear.



I wonder what we'll be like next year?


No drama
Poetic farmer

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:30 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Stefchook wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
No excuses for me, Teague has to wear this. 17 games of 27 5 goal swings. It is officially a joke let alone a nightmare for us.


Not quite sure about the stat, but the point's valid. The coach clearly has a problem with his set ups. We're not always going to be on top in midfield. But other teams manage to make it hard for the opposition to score. Our defenders have generally been excellent, I think it's the set ups that are killing us. Whenever we finally get a defender to play behind the ball, we tend to get back on top. It's really not all that hard, Coach. :banghead:

One would think that by watching how the opposition set up against us week after week and take uncontested mark after uncontested mark that even by monkey see monkey do we would learn something.
I don't think that's unreasonable and then to look at how Geelong play to Hawkins we might learn something at the other end.

This team has so much actual and potential talent in it that the coach should just have to tell them to go out and play like they did in the little league. The packs wouldn't be any smaller but at least they'd be flying for speccys, running and bouncing and trying to kick goals instead of passing it to someone else to do it.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:30 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 23030
Location: Bondi Beach
Donstuie wrote:
Beijing Blue wrote:
cortez wrote:
Donstuie wrote:
I don't have an issue with Murphy and Simpson chairing Gibbs off. They're good mates and went through a lot together, fair enough.

The issue for me is the smiles on their faces as they do it, as though what just transpired was just forgotten.

Murphy, Simpson, Betts and Barker are the final reminders of the 'near enough is good enough' era, which is a poison that needs to be extracted from the club.


Yep. Murphy, Simpson, Betts, thanks for you service. We need to develop the kids, the next generation need to take charge (if they can).

:thumbsup:

I'd like to think that someone like Weitering pulls that next generation together and says "Did you see that horseshit? That ends now. I promise you that in 10 years time you won't see us chairing an opponent off the ground with smiles on our faces after a loss..."


Its going to take a hero with conviction. Weitering is of good character with no emotion...if only je was an All Australian too....

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:35 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:21 pm
Posts: 7833
redback wrote:
jim wrote:
redback wrote:
jim wrote:
Scotty12000 wrote:
Come back Gibbsy, we’ve got a minimum 16 vacancies!

Yet again, another (dis)honourable loss.

Yet again, a quarter and a bit of decent footy, the rest insipid, bruise free ball watching

Yet another unanswered 6-7 goal deficit allowed to occur before the team wakes up

Yet again zero tactical changes made by the coaching staff during gameplay

Yet again another match peppered with deplorable butchering of F50 entries

Yet again second to the ball, falling over on the spot, zero second efforts

Yet again no discernible structure, no hunger for the contest and far too many passengers

Does the Teague Train come with a 12 month manufacturer’s warranty? Not convinced by a long shot :mad:


Teague has years of shit to turn around. Was never happening in a season. 13-14 is a massive improvement on the previous 4-40. Just so much horrible shit that has to be turned around. He does need the side to take a step to finals next year though. Been similar to Ratten's first year.



He has had multiple opportunities to make statements and start to change the culture but has failed miserably, too late now. He needs to make a statement with who stays and who goes then keep going. First full year now so he needs to learn fast and and react faster.


We'll know in a couple of years about the culture. If you expected that to be changed in such a short time you are dreaming. Really dreaming. God knows how many years it took Hardwick at Richmond to change those years of horrible culture.

7 wins, doubt it'll be 8, is about 9.25 wins in a normal year. We'd have taken that at the start of the year. The culture and mental aspects has cost us finals this year. I'd leave that in no doubt, and it is really frustrating. 13-14 though is alot better than the previous 4-40. Those other aspects have alot of work ahead though otherwise we'll hit a massive roadblock. Get those right and the physical aspects will be more like the we showed in the Bulldogs game as they'll be great commitment. Years of a losing culture is really turned around in a year though. That's the next test.

7 wins this sounded sounded good at the start but now feels an under-achievement.



You change the culture by demanding the non negotiable in a second, you make a statement that is all inclusive, teague has not done that.


Those habits, 20 years worth, don't change in a year, unless you believe in miracles and have no conception of what that takes. It's not a light switch, alot to do with belief. Hardwick took years. We are not different. Part of it has got better, as we have often found a way to get over the line somehow, but the same issues that got us into those positions have caused unnecessary losses too, like today.


Last edited by jim on Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:35 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Location: Progreso, Yucatan, MEXICO
bondiblue wrote:
Donstuie wrote:
Beijing Blue wrote:
cortez wrote:
Donstuie wrote:
I don't have an issue with Murphy and Simpson chairing Gibbs off. They're good mates and went through a lot together, fair enough.

The issue for me is the smiles on their faces as they do it, as though what just transpired was just forgotten.

Murphy, Simpson, Betts and Barker are the final reminders of the 'near enough is good enough' era, which is a poison that needs to be extracted from the club.


Yep. Murphy, Simpson, Betts, thanks for you service. We need to develop the kids, the next generation need to take charge (if they can).

:thumbsup:

I'd like to think that someone like Weitering pulls that next generation together and says "Did you see that horseshit? That ends now. I promise you that in 10 years time you won't see us chairing an opponent off the ground with smiles on our faces after a loss..."


Its going to take a hero with conviction. Weitering is of good character with no emotion...if only je was an All Australian too....

Name one player in the list who is capable of it. Even Doc, whoi is a lifelong supporter is a nice bloke.
Cottrell is the one with the fire in his guts but he'll never be captain.
Dropping him after last week was the obvious thing to do but would he have given us more than LOB? More than Eddie? More than Gibbo?

Yes on all counts.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:49 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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I’ll let today’s performance from players and coaches speak for itself, I’m sure there’ll be plenty of posters bring out the justifications and more important sugar coatings.


The administration will distinguish themselves in other ways in the coming weeks.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:52 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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AGRO wrote:
I’ll let today’s performance from players and coaches speak for itself, I’m sure there’ll be plenty of posters bring out the justifications and more important sugar coatings.


The administration will distinguish themselves in other ways in the coming weeks.

Bullshit.
Get agro, Agro.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:53 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:42 pm
Posts: 2377
Location: Princess Park
What a disappointing afternoon.

This is why I don't even bother looking at the "Carlton can still make the finals thread" or enter any discussion with Carlton supporters about finals.

I'm scared, I wont believe it until I see it, pretenders. I still cant believe Cripps yelled after the GC game "we are back" back form where?

To see a young Sholl (a handful of games) tear us up early in the game was so typical of this club.

They had 6 players with more than 20 disposals, we had 1. We have one of the poorest midfields, Walsh and Setterfield tried gamely today but they had limited support from Cripps, Murph and Ed today.

A poor midfield will always put more pressure on your backline and give your forwards poor opportunities.

Unless we trade/draft some good midfielders next year we will be back to the bottom 4 again, the Swans and Freo look ready to already overtake us next year with some good youth coming through.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:01 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:21 pm
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Dogs are in the 8 and will likely stay there. They're the only ones not to have blown gold-plated opportunities. Melbourne, GWS and Carlton all gifted chances and pissed them down the drain.


Last edited by jim on Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:05 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Yep, we got beaten by the bottom side when finals were still open.

There is so much wrong that right now, I am too deflated to even begin to think about it.

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Last edited by CC1961 on Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:07 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Blue4ever wrote:
What a disappointing afternoon.

This is why I don't even bother looking at the "Carlton can still make the finals thread" or enter any discussion with Carlton supporters about finals.

I'm scared, I wont believe it until I see it, pretenders. I still cant believe Cripps yelled after the GC game "we are back" back form where?

To see a young Sholl (a handful of games) tear us up early in the game was so typical of this club.

They had 6 players with more than 20 disposals, we had 1. We have one of the poorest midfields, Walsh and Setterfield tried gamely today but they had limited support from Cripps, Murph and Ed today.

A poor midfield will always put more pressure on your backline and give your forwards poor opportunities.

Unless we trade/draft some good midfielders next year we will be back to the bottom 4 again, the Swans and Freo look ready to already overtake us next year with some good youth coming through.

Not sure I agree.
We have shown we have the cattle if they turn up to play.
We have Kemp coming up and he should get midfield time. Jack will probably end up in the midfield unless McGovern leaves. Kennedy has shown he can plkay there. he isn't far away from being a permanent fwd/mid, maybe rotating with Cripps or Jack.
We will probably get one through the trade as you suggested. I'm not sure t will b an absolute gun because we haven't shown anything that would make us a destination club this season.
I think we are almost there. the gane plan neads an overhaul to suit Harry and hopefully Charlie. Geelong have shown us you can develop a game plan around one or two good players.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:09 pm 
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Garry Crane

Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:48 pm
Posts: 261
Donstuie wrote:
Murphy, Simpson, Betts and Barker are the final reminders of the 'near enough is good enough' era, which is a poison that needs to be extracted from the club.


Sad but true.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:23 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:21 pm
Posts: 7833
sammywaslow wrote:
Donstuie wrote:
Murphy, Simpson, Betts and Barker are the final reminders of the 'near enough is good enough' era, which is a poison that needs to be extracted from the club.


Sad but true.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Betts isn't. He went though our good years then Adelaide's good years. Others have though.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:44 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 5988
dannyboy wrote:
I wonder:

I wonder if this team is not Teague's team?

I wonder if Teague's team will have Cripps and Setters and Walsh; the rest he will cast off, not his type - whatever that means.
I wonder if the Gov will be set free, to wander some distant desert land talking a crock of shit while sipping tea - 'oh Lawrence, remember the good old days when the Arabs and we went dancing with the camels?'
I wonder if Fish is doomed to never dance in the center again, a bridesman never a groom? Or worse he too, to make room for a new crop of 'whomevers' that Teague claims as his own.

I wonder if this club is paid by the anguish is brings is a reverse bizarre world to the one that once brought joy, fishing up wins like a plethora of John the Baptist head's bleeding on the platter of our third quarters?And in my ears still rings the pounding of the signage, ah the glory of the yesteryears - who remembers? Who recalls with me the days of gold and plunder?

I wonder what side we might be when we scored every scored rather than one of our two or three?
I wonder if Weitering is sad and sore knowing his body carries the weight of a backline - will he, like Cripps, find Atlas was a god and so a mantle no man can maintain?
I wonder if Harry secretly loves Gov cos he shines all the brighter in that sow's ear of empty illusions - and if so beware, beware the Jabberwocky Curnow the younger, beware the jibbedy-jab that sends your talent trickling into this century's long line of Carlton could-have-beens - perhaps have a chat with Gibbs if you're around Curnow lad, talk to him about missed opportunities. Beware the tale that tells the story of Harry as the one who stood tallest while you fell into the endless cycle of disrepair.

I wonder if Kemp feels a strain on the knee already as expectations grow that he is the next in the hunched-shoulders and weary eyes of so many dismayed saviors?
I wonder if Essendon** and Carlton are in a heroic struggle to the bottom of the pit? It is too close to call that tussle between the pride and folly of two clubs so lost in the shadows, like moons fallen to the silent lands beneath.
I wonder if I will ever believe again?

Am I then damaged, fallen, lost, trussed up in the twine of too many gloriously explored avenues to losing?
Carlton my Carlton, I remember and that memory makes the present so much harder to bear.



I wonder what we'll be like next year?


Instead of given us an English lesson you may like to inform us why after a 5 year rebuild we are 12 th


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:44 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:49 pm
Posts: 1084
Rexy wrote:
Harford and the women legit leave the blokes for dead re honesty and hard work.


This. I'm a big fan of Harford, not to mention the work ethic of our AFLW team.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:59 pm 
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Laurie Kerr

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:30 pm
Posts: 116
Hey Carlton marketing team, I remember buying a brick, and the opportunity to buy a seat in some irrelevant stand... so for the next PP refurbishment may I suggest barn doors.
1 behind the goals at each end of PP, and some mobile barn doors to place around the ground during training.
It would be nice to hit a barn door during the game...


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