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PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:38 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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litho_43 wrote:
Can you please rewatch the game and jot down all errors from all players?

Please keep up with the commentary next to each time stamp as well.

My point is, it was one of the scrappiest games known to man. Unbelievable amounts of fumbles, slips, dropped marks, from both teams.


:clap:


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:51 pm 
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Ken Hands

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Crippa wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
jake_h03 wrote:
BigGartos wrote:
sandramcd67 wrote:


Not a huge Murf fan but he has had a solid month

It's hard to form a balanced view of Murphy...
He got the footy a lot, seems to be willing to be physically competitive and recently has been working super hard to be involved.
But it feels like he just doesn't use the ball well enough. Poor options and too often poor skills. Too many times he puts us in a worse position and too often helps the opposition.
He was never elite but he used to be better.
How often do we say "Fantastic!" when he is involved in the play?


He was absolutely elite in 2011. Pretty close to elite for a few years around that, and maybe close again for a year sometime later but I’ve kind of blocked out the Malthouse years.

His disposal has declined at a rate of knots but strangely what seems worse than his disposal itself is his decision making. A few kicks and handballs last night that had an air of a deer in the headlights first gamer shitting his pants. It’s really strange. He was such a good user at his peak


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If you tell a lie often enough people will start to believe it then it becomes the truth.
About 2 or so years back when we lost every game people were looking for and scape goat and they turned on Murphy.
Since then the numbers of people who have jumped on board this band wagon has increased so now it is just a given despite how good he plays he is a liability and should be dropped.
It's a joke Murphy would be top 5 in the B&F for sure and people are just potting him because its the in thing to do.

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Murph has had some good games this year but last night was not one of them and I don’t understand why it’s such a crime to think that?

I decided to watch the second half and watch Murph.

15:05 hand pass under no pressure behind a running Cotrol streaming forward wrecks momentum.

11:40 misses an easy tackle.

11:11 a weird terrible kick into forward 50 (that Betts turned into a goal for Walsh anyway after the Freo player drops an easy open mark)

10:52 a terrible attempt at a tackle that gives away a free kick. Flailing arms.

10:25 a panicked handpass turnover to a Freo player despite open teammates around him.

Then I got bored and stopped.

Please respond with a few examples of what wonderful positive things he did? It seems you have made up your mind he’s playing great without any reality to it. I’m happy to change my mind based on examples from last night instead of pointless blanket statements.


I agree Crippa, for a senior player he made some awful errors last night. Was watching it with my boys and we all commented on how poor his disposal and his vision was. No doubt he tried hard and got to the right spots more often than most but he ballsd it up ALOT, this is irrespective of what others did or did not do. Liam Jones did it once and cost us a goal ... stood out....if Murphy was in defence he would have cost us half a dozen.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:02 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Crippa wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
jake_h03 wrote:
BigGartos wrote:
sandramcd67 wrote:


Not a huge Murf fan but he has had a solid month

It's hard to form a balanced view of Murphy...
He got the footy a lot, seems to be willing to be physically competitive and recently has been working super hard to be involved.
But it feels like he just doesn't use the ball well enough. Poor options and too often poor skills. Too many times he puts us in a worse position and too often helps the opposition.
He was never elite but he used to be better.
How often do we say "Fantastic!" when he is involved in the play?


He was absolutely elite in 2011. Pretty close to elite for a few years around that, and maybe close again for a year sometime later but I’ve kind of blocked out the Malthouse years.

His disposal has declined at a rate of knots but strangely what seems worse than his disposal itself is his decision making. A few kicks and handballs last night that had an air of a deer in the headlights first gamer shitting his pants. It’s really strange. He was such a good user at his peak


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
If you tell a lie often enough people will start to believe it then it becomes the truth.
About 2 or so years back when we lost every game people were looking for and scape goat and they turned on Murphy.
Since then the numbers of people who have jumped on board this band wagon has increased so now it is just a given despite how good he plays he is a liability and should be dropped.
It's a joke Murphy would be top 5 in the B&F for sure and people are just potting him because its the in thing to do.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


Murph has had some good games this year but last night was not one of them and I don’t understand why it’s such a crime to think that?

I decided to watch the second half and watch Murph.

15:05 hand pass under no pressure behind a running Cotrol streaming forward wrecks momentum.

11:40 misses an easy tackle.

11:11 a weird terrible kick into forward 50 (that Betts turned into a goal for Walsh anyway after the Freo player drops an easy open mark)

10:52 a terrible attempt at a tackle that gives away a free kick. Flailing arms.

10:25 a panicked handpass turnover to a Freo player despite open teammates around him.

Then I got bored and stopped.

Please respond with a few examples of what wonderful positive things he did? It seems you have made up your mind he’s playing great without any reality to it. I’m happy to change my mind based on examples from last night instead of pointless blanket statements.


It is no crime to post what you think and what you see.

Good on you for sharing your thoughts. Its a crime not to allow such discussion. Doesn't make you right or wrong, maybe he's judged a bit hard, but hey he's not far from the end, so it puts the microscope on him. That's normal for every player in every team coming towards the end of a career.

There's a post on Big Footy yesterday with a similar summary of Murph's performance, and its 4 times longer than yours Crippa, done by I thinl "ollo".

I thought Murph was good yesterday, with his efforts to compete and to tackle, compared to his other performances since round 2.
Unfortunately he can't stick tackles and to the poster who thinks Murph doesn't bomb it forward without looking, well that's not right. In fact its been a criticism of him all year and last year, because we expect better.

He played an important part to get us over the line. His experience s important amongst this group.

Whether one of the kids waiting for a call up would ave done better, or doing better is futile because its an unknown.

But its Ok to highlight his weaknesses as it is to celebrate his achievements on game day. The past is the past and doesn't mean jack moving forward.

Murph plays an important role whilst the long list of 19yo-23yo find their feet.

I reckon he will find holding a spot difficult next year as his body ages. He's been a great servant who sacrificed his body for the team years ago, hence the banged up shoulders.

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Last edited by bondiblue on Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:01 am 
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Bert Deacon
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kingkerna wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
kingkerna wrote:
Feel sorry for our midfield, last night they were trying to read off the Freo ruckman because TDK wasn't competing enough

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He had some brilliant taps to advantage in the centre square, but was pushed around too easily otherwise, needs to learn to jump at throw ins a ball ups too.
Centre contests were fine, boundary throw ins awful, was content to try and ruck from behind

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I was surprised how good (high) TDK's leap was at several of the centre bounces, definitely got first hand to it on several occasions. As for the boundary throw ins, I also noted how he was rucking from behind at many of them. I think it was mostly when he was matched against Darcy. I figured it was a tactical choice as his chances of winning a wrestling style throw in against Darcy would've been (very) low. I think he was trying to use his better leap, and avoid too much contact with Darcy, by coming from behind. Just a theory.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:06 am 
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Craig Bradley

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A good point about TDK Snake if you looked at the mess Nic Nat made of McEvoy last night the efforts of TDK the week before were more meritorious
Needs to build up body further but also needs more game time


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:08 am 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
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kingkerna wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
kingkerna wrote:
Mate asked me if that's in my top 10 Carlton moments.

Got a headache deciding

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Cmon, we’re not St kilda. 16 premiership moments come first, yesterday is way back....
Yeah, but specific moments, I immediately thought of earl's smother and subsequent goal in 95, not sure why. In terms of one off plays that give you joy this is right up there.

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Fair enough, that's different, but I am still not sure it makes into the top 10, let me think....


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:34 am 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
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sinbagger wrote:
Rexy wrote:
Quote:
Zac Fisher, Carlton, has been charged with Rough Conduct (Dangerous Tackle) against Adam Cerra, Fremantle, during the fourth quarter of the Round 12 match between Fremantle and Carlton, played at Optus Stadium on Saturday August 15.

In summary he can accept a $1000 sanction with an early plea.

Based on the available evidence, the incident was assessed as Careless Conduct, Medium Impact and Body Contact. The incident was classified as a $1500 sanction as a first offence. The player can accept a $1000 sanction with an early plea.


Quote:
Matthew Cottrell, Carlton, has been charged with Engaging in Rough Conduct against James Aish, Fremantle, during the second quarter of the Round 12 match between Fremantle and Carlton, played at Optus Stadium on Saturday August 15.

In summary he can accept a $1000 sanction with an early plea.

Based on the available evidence, the incident was assessed as Careless Conduct, Low Impact and High Contact. The incident was classified as a $1500 sanction as a first offence. The player can accept a $1000 sanction with an early plea.


https://www.afl.com.au/news/486696


Yeah, I saw him flatten the Freo player and thought that it was a bit borderline.

Missed the Fisher one....


Ah, the Fisher one was where he chased the Freo player down form behind, perfectly tackled him while holding his arm and laid him to the ground. The freo player just put the ball on the ground and should have been penalised but the call was "play on"....

Seemed quite gentle to me...


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:40 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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One good thing to note from the end of the game....we had 2 players there who actually WANTED to take the kick. In times past we may not have.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:50 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Navy Blue Horse wrote:
One good thing to note from the end of the game....we had 2 players there who actually WANTED to take the kick. In times past we may not have.
:thumbsup:

and confident that both would have had a reasonable chance

Go Blues!

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:53 am 
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Rod Ashman
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billc3 wrote:
Navy Blue Horse wrote:
One good thing to note from the end of the game....we had 2 players there who actually WANTED to take the kick. In times past we may not have.
:thumbsup:

and confident that both would have had a reasonable chance

Go Blues!

It could have been Liam Jones having another shot. :smoking:

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:24 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Navy Blue Horse wrote:
One good thing to note from the end of the game....we had 2 players there who actually WANTED to take the kick. In times past we may not have.



I liked that too. Very gutsy by Newnes, & what an awesome way to stamp yourself when you're the new bloke from another club.

As an aside, Gibbons is a also a very good kick, & totally could've kicked it. People on social media are making out like Gibbons is friggin Rod Carter & never kicked a goal before

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:31 am 
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Ken Hunter
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99prelim wrote:
GreatEx wrote:
kingkerna wrote:
I urge you to watch again. Particular at boundary throw ins. He isn't strong enough to mark yet either. It will come though

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Yeah I agree, he's great at centre bounces but not much else at the moment. He seems quite decent at ground level although he got in the way of more mobile teammates at times. Having said all that, I can see what the hype is about.


Of FFS, he had a quiet game and suddenly, we're extrapolating that to be we put him on ice for the year. Let's just see how the last 6 weeks unfold with form, injuries etc before making the early call on TDK


To be clear, I only agreed with this kingkerna quote, not the one about putting him on ice. I'd play him in every game this season, but I agree that he's only really excelling at centre bounces so far (and that is fine!).


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:33 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Navy Blue Horse wrote:
One good thing to note from the end of the game....we had 2 players there who actually WANTED to take the kick. In times past we may not have.


3 in fact, Eddie said he offered to take it, too. He probably wouldn't have made the distance so I'm glad Newnes got the nod!


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:36 am 
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Ken Hunter
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snakehips wrote:
kingkerna wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
kingkerna wrote:
Feel sorry for our midfield, last night they were trying to read off the Freo ruckman because TDK wasn't competing enough

Sent from my SM-G986B using Tapatalk


He had some brilliant taps to advantage in the centre square, but was pushed around too easily otherwise, needs to learn to jump at throw ins a ball ups too.
Centre contests were fine, boundary throw ins awful, was content to try and ruck from behind

Sent from my SM-G986B using Tapatalk
I was surprised how good (high) TDK's leap was at several of the centre bounces, definitely got first hand to it on several occasions. As for the boundary throw ins, I also noted how he was rucking from behind at many of them. I think it was mostly when he was matched against Darcy. I figured it was a tactical choice as his chances of winning a wrestling style throw in against Darcy would've been (very) low. I think he was trying to use his better leap, and avoid too much contact with Darcy, by coming from behind. Just a theory.


His positioning at boundary throw-ins was exacerbated by the umpires throwing it short time and time again - both rucks often had to sprint to make the fall.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:51 am 
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formerly King Kenny
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Rexy wrote:
Quote:
Zac Fisher, Carlton, has been charged with Rough Conduct (Dangerous Tackle) against Adam Cerra, Fremantle, during the fourth quarter of the Round 12 match between Fremantle and Carlton, played at Optus Stadium on Saturday August 15.

In summary he can accept a $1000 sanction with an early plea.

Based on the available evidence, the incident was assessed as Careless Conduct, Medium Impact and Body Contact. The incident was classified as a $1500 sanction as a first offence. The player can accept a $1000 sanction with an early plea.


Quote:
Matthew Cottrell, Carlton, has been charged with Engaging in Rough Conduct against James Aish, Fremantle, during the second quarter of the Round 12 match between Fremantle and Carlton, played at Optus Stadium on Saturday August 15.

In summary he can accept a $1000 sanction with an early plea.

Based on the available evidence, the incident was assessed as Careless Conduct, Low Impact and High Contact. The incident was classified as a $1500 sanction as a first offence. The player can accept a $1000 sanction with an early plea.


https://www.afl.com.au/news/486696


Fisher got fined for the perfect tackle. These rules are cooked.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:02 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:36 am
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sinbagger wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
Rexy wrote:
Quote:
Zac Fisher, Carlton, has been charged with Rough Conduct (Dangerous Tackle) against Adam Cerra, Fremantle, during the fourth quarter of the Round 12 match between Fremantle and Carlton, played at Optus Stadium on Saturday August 15.

In summary he can accept a $1000 sanction with an early plea.

Based on the available evidence, the incident was assessed as Careless Conduct, Medium Impact and Body Contact. The incident was classified as a $1500 sanction as a first offence. The player can accept a $1000 sanction with an early plea.


Quote:
Matthew Cottrell, Carlton, has been charged with Engaging in Rough Conduct against James Aish, Fremantle, during the second quarter of the Round 12 match between Fremantle and Carlton, played at Optus Stadium on Saturday August 15.

In summary he can accept a $1000 sanction with an early plea.

Based on the available evidence, the incident was assessed as Careless Conduct, Low Impact and High Contact. The incident was classified as a $1500 sanction as a first offence. The player can accept a $1000 sanction with an early plea.


https://www.afl.com.au/news/486696


Yeah, I saw him flatten the Freo player and thought that it was a bit borderline.

Missed the Fisher one....


Ah, the Fisher one was where he chased the Freo player down form behind, perfectly tackled him while holding his arm and laid him to the ground. The freo player just put the ball on the ground and should have been penalised but the call was "play on"....

Seemed quite gentle to me...


Agree. Couldn't understand what the fuss was all about.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:08 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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CK95 wrote:
Rexy wrote:
That Willo thing wasn't nearly as bad as some are making out.



I agree Rexy. To me it was just a tangle of arms & ball & Fyfe had the momentum so he was able to steal it.

Exactly. He actually turned to dispose of the footy and suddenly realised he didn't have it.
No way he jibbed it.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:17 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

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CFC8795 wrote:
billc3 wrote:
Navy Blue Horse wrote:
One good thing to note from the end of the game....we had 2 players there who actually WANTED to take the kick. In times past we may not have.
:thumbsup:

and confident that both would have had a reasonable chance

Go Blues!

It could have been Liam Jones having another shot. :smoking:


He would have tried to throw it to Eddie again....


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:25 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Crippa wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
jake_h03 wrote:
BigGartos wrote:
sandramcd67 wrote:


Not a huge Murf fan but he has had a solid month

It's hard to form a balanced view of Murphy...
He got the footy a lot, seems to be willing to be physically competitive and recently has been working super hard to be involved.
But it feels like he just doesn't use the ball well enough. Poor options and too often poor skills. Too many times he puts us in a worse position and too often helps the opposition.
He was never elite but he used to be better.
How often do we say "Fantastic!" when he is involved in the play?


He was absolutely elite in 2011. Pretty close to elite for a few years around that, and maybe close again for a year sometime later but I’ve kind of blocked out the Malthouse years.

His disposal has declined at a rate of knots but strangely what seems worse than his disposal itself is his decision making. A few kicks and handballs last night that had an air of a deer in the headlights first gamer shitting his pants. It’s really strange. He was such a good user at his peak


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If you tell a lie often enough people will start to believe it then it becomes the truth.
About 2 or so years back when we lost every game people were looking for and scape goat and they turned on Murphy.
Since then the numbers of people who have jumped on board this band wagon has increased so now it is just a given despite how good he plays he is a liability and should be dropped.
It's a joke Murphy would be top 5 in the B&F for sure and people are just potting him because its the in thing to do.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


Murph has had some good games this year but last night was not one of them and I don’t understand why it’s such a crime to think that?

I decided to watch the second half and watch Murph.

15:05 hand pass under no pressure behind a running Cotrol streaming forward wrecks momentum.

11:40 misses an easy tackle.

11:11 a weird terrible kick into forward 50 (that Betts turned into a goal for Walsh anyway after the Freo player drops an easy open mark)

10:52 a terrible attempt at a tackle that gives away a free kick. Flailing arms.

10:25 a panicked handpass turnover to a Freo player despite open teammates around him.

Then I got bored and stopped.

Please respond with a few examples of what wonderful positive things he did? It seems you have made up your mind he’s playing great without any reality to it. I’m happy to change my mind based on examples from last night instead of pointless blanket statements.

I did this two weeks ago for an entire half of footy. I once did it for an entire Warnock game when people thought he was the bees knees.
You can do it all you like but facts don't matter in this discussion. People will always come back with,
'Deserves better', 'Loyal to the club' 'Been a great servant' 'WTF would you know you anonymous keyboard warrior'. and so on.
All those things are true, including the keyboard warrior bit but the reality is, even though he has had a few pretty reasonable games this year, his time has come. In a team where we don't have a lot of possession accumulators, he gets his 20+ most games and people get confused with possessions and effective possessions, the definition of which is essentially that it goes to a one on one contest or better.
I'd much rather see Philp or Dow in the team. Fisher was rotting away in the twos for a few weeks until his eventual return. We need to get games into those kids eventually.
The worst of it is that Murphy got another year. It forces the MC to play him to justify their decision. Maybe they want him to get to 300 day games.
Good on Eddie, Murph, Kreuz, Simmo and Ed, although Ed seems to be pretty durable but somebody is eventually going to have to tap them all on the shoulder.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:07 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Murphy is in our best team at the moment, when that changes I'll be sure to let you know.

If he was in his 20s he wouldn't even be a discussion point.

I appreciate that he is approaching the end, but I still feel very positive when he has the ball.

Stop equating that he is holding up and coming players back. There will always be room to bring in those that deserve it.

While we are playing for a higher ladder position there must be a balance between youth and experience.

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