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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:20 pm 
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John Nicholls
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Coincidence that Rath is at St Kilda now?

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/how ... 558ps.html

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:45 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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As frustrating as the result is, we played a very well drilled side whose last 2 games at this venue were a 26 point win against the reigning premier and a 39 point win against the Bulldogs. With our captains being well down on usual form, we lost by 3 goals.
Let's not forget we won our last 2 games against Geelong at Geelong and the undefeated Essendon*.
As I said before the game, I would have bought Kennedy in as an additional big midfielder and I think we erred by not doing so.
Levi has been exceptional for 12 months and the one night he was held, scragged and ineffectual, we needed one of the other tall forwards to fill the void and they failed to.
I don't understand the love for Harry on TC and in the coaches box. He's selfish, petulant and offers very little IMHO. We'd be far better suited bringing in TDK and letting him relieve ruck. That way Levi can work hard inside forward 50 instead of going back there to get a rest.
Cripps reminds me of the Wayne Carey V Glenn Jakovich duels. If someone wants to wrestle him and engage him in the physical stakes, he gets distracted and wants to assert his dominance instead of playing the bloody game.
The Geary tag on Doc was always going to happen. it's a good learning experience for him.

From memory I posted in the match thread that Cripps, Cuningham and Gibbons had 5 possessions each at half time. Not good enough but with so many of our players below par for the night, it gives me hope that to still in the game, we are on the improve. Make a statement and drop McKay, reward Kennedys excellent form in the 2's and hopefully the boys come out and turn it around next week and we'll be 3 wins from 4. Let's see if Teague has the courage to make the tough call.
I hate losing but I still have faith. :thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:35 pm 
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Robert Walls

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We didn't look really sharp, and as ever, the margins are very thin in footy.

Casboult kicks his goal in the first. Philp kicks his goal in the first. McGovern rushes the ball over the line instead of somehow bouncing it on it's end to the St. Kilda bloke behind him. Jones doesn't hang one up across the face to Weitering.

We win.

It's that close.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:36 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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I agree BV

and we were in with real shot until they kicked that late goal in the 3rd (from our mistake)...gave them back the momentum.
I hope McKay goes but listening to the Teague presser it feels as if he is not going to do a lot - felt it was delivery as much as anything, and while delivery was crap so were our talls. I do not think Harry cares a lot, hardly chases etc, a footballer when everything is going for him, a dead weight when it isn't and I wonder if McGovern might be better suited in the backline? I'd trade Harry.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:40 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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dannyboy wrote:
I agree BV

and we were in with real shot until they kicked that late goal in the 3rd (from our mistake)...gave them back the momentum.
I hope McKay goes but listening to the Teague presser it feels as if he is not going to do a lot - felt it was delivery as much as anything, and while delivery was crap so were our talls. I do not think Harry cares a lot, hardly chases etc, a footballer when everything is going for him, a dead weight when it isn't and I wonder if McGovern might be better suited in the backline? I'd trade Harry.


Levi is over 30yo, McGovern is a 3rd tall and Charlie is made of chalk.

You sure you want to give up on Harry ?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:48 pm 
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Geoff Southby

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The game is won predominantly in the middle these days.
We don’t have the cattle in there.
That’s mainly due to recruiting.

My other concern is we seem small compared to other teams.
Half the team look like greyhounds.
The result flattered us.
A lot of teams when they have a 4 5 goal lead put the cue in the rack.
Particularly during these shorten quarters.
StKilda were fairly dominant in close


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:56 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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bluechampion wrote:
We didn't look really sharp, and as ever, the margins are very thin in footy.

Casboult kicks his goal in the first. Philp kicks his goal in the first. McGovern rushes the ball over the line instead of somehow bouncing it on it's end to the St. Kilda bloke behind him. Jones doesn't hang one up across the face to Weitering.

We win.

It's that close.




As long as you take into account the 'close calls/errors/bad luck' that went our way too.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:14 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

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We look good when we have the press up and going. Need that for longer and earlier. Keep it in our half.

No Caz and H in the same 22 please (Unless one is first ruck by necessity).

Play Cripps forward for large parts of 1st quarters. Takes him a while to warm up.

Clean up the unforced errors. We gifted them 4 goals.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:19 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Rexy wrote:
dannyboy wrote:
I agree BV

and we were in with real shot until they kicked that late goal in the 3rd (from our mistake)...gave them back the momentum.
I hope McKay goes but listening to the Teague presser it feels as if he is not going to do a lot - felt it was delivery as much as anything, and while delivery was crap so were our talls. I do not think Harry cares a lot, hardly chases etc, a footballer when everything is going for him, a dead weight when it isn't and I wonder if McGovern might be better suited in the backline? I'd trade Harry.


Levi is over 30yo, McGovern is a 3rd tall and Charlie is made of chalk.

You sure you want to give up on Harry ?


This is why we need to get TDK in now. We don't know how many games will be played this season, and we need at least 5 games from him to give some inkling whether he has what it takes.

If we do play TDK in 5+ of the remaining games and he shows promise, I'd be open to trade offers for Harry. In fact, maybe even if TDK doesn't show much, I'd still listen. Harry's stock is probably still higher than it "should" be, if you know what I mean. I am sceptical of his physical and mental commitment to the game, and without that he is worthless to us.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:21 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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99prelim wrote:
Yes yes yes...if you watch how Rich tackle; the shortest distance between two people is a straight line. Rich over the last few years do not spend one nanosecond hesitating...they CHARGE in a straight line at full tilt and have their arms open just before the tackle so that as they swing their arms in to tackle, there is MOMENTUM...makes the tackle more effective. Last night I saw Walsh take a half a second to decide whether to tackle and then the tackle was virtually non-existent. Even if you're lightly built, the physics of momentum can be your friend...don't hesitate, charge in a straight line and swing arms in at speed


Absolutely. This is why Jack Martin surprises some people with his strength. He was the one guy who achieved anything positive with a bump in last night's game, and his tackles stick. He just makes a beeline for the guy, doesn't give it a moment's thought (in a good way!)


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:27 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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keogh wrote:
My other concern is we seem small compared to other teams.
Half the team look like greyhounds.



Young Walsh looked tiny compared to some of the saints players, but we always look light-on against hoops or stripes. Not sure if its real.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:28 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Pretty disappointing night where we were generally second to the ball, we weren’t manning up in the first half and they got more numbers to the contest. Good thing is we have next week to bounce back against a pretty average team.

One thing that has concerned me this year is I’m not sure our players are strong enough. I know we have a highly rated endurance coach and he’s definitely a big part of the reason we’re able to come back late in games but hearing about power athletes like Cripps and McGovern being so lean and then seeing them not do as well in contests as they have in previous years impresses me about as much as when we turned Brock McLean into the game’s slowest ever wingman.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 3:01 pm 
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Bob Chitty

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Blue Sombrero wrote:
dane wrote:

People crucifying Jones for making a couple of bad turnovers are short sighted. He often opens up the field like that and tonight he missed two. It was left to him because Doc was tagged out of the game. Murphy giving away two stupid fifties was worse.
People crucifying Plow don't see the good things he does. Tonight he had his obligatory free against for holding but it was obvious as usual that both players were holding each other.
Willo slipped over a couple of times and went on his right foot twice. Drop him for that as well.


The Jones kick to Jacob was very costly but we won’t get anywhere going safely down the line every time so the odd mistake while trying to take the game on is acceptable to me. Good on him for trying to switch the angles just like Teague asks them to.

But Plow is a different story. Maybe I am glass half empty with him and good on you for being more glass half full. But his mistakes are different to Jones or SPS who also had a massive error that cost us a goal against the flow when we had momentum. SPS was streaming up the middle and over kicked it and caused the turnover that went straight back the other way for a goal. I’m ok with that. But Plow directly costs us 2-3 goals a game just doing really dumb things. The amount of times he flies third man up, misses the spoil and let’s the ball get out the back to his opponent to score is unacceptable. It’s just dumb football. Last night he could have easily got a hand on a high ball heading towards goal but ran all wobbly and let it sail through just out of his reach when he could have easily touched it. His idiocy will never show in the stats. He doesn’t shank a kick to an opponent. But I have no idea how he doesn’t get dropped. The free he gave from wrapping his arms around his opponent in a marking contest was a typical average mistake all defenders make. That one was no big deal. The fact not one call was given to Levi in similar circumstances all night at the other end is the crap part.

Willo making a single howler in one game vs Plow giving away 2-3 goals most games is hardly a reasonable comparison.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 3:24 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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Crippa wrote:

Willo making a single howler in one game vs Plow giving away 2-3 goals most games is hardly a reasonable comparison.


I disagree. Willo fell over twice instead of giving it off, dropped a simple mark and since he returned to the side has been turning it over regularly. That said I understand mistakes are made but the good exceeds the bad. The same as it does with Plowman. People are keen to point out his mistakes but they overlook the substantial amount of good work he does.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 3:27 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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BigGartos wrote:
Rexy wrote:
Haven’t watched the game and probably won’t bother now but I wonder if some of the boys had to move house yesterday...?
Might explain a few things. Getting organised for a move interstate might have been a distraction as well...?

This is a plausible explanation for why they seemed so sluggish and out of sorts for so long. They just seemed "not there" for too much of the game.



Not sure if these posts are serious or not :?:

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 3:37 pm 
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Geoff Southby

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Crippa wrote:
Blue Sombrero wrote:
dane wrote:

People crucifying Jones for making a couple of bad turnovers are short sighted. He often opens up the field like that and tonight he missed two. It was left to him because Doc was tagged out of the game. Murphy giving away two stupid fifties was worse.
People crucifying Plow don't see the good things he does. Tonight he had his obligatory free against for holding but it was obvious as usual that both players were holding each other.
Willo slipped over a couple of times and went on his right foot twice. Drop him for that as well.


The Jones kick to Jacob was very costly but we won’t get anywhere going safely down the line every time so the odd mistake while trying to take the game on is acceptable to me. Good on him for trying to switch the angles just like Teague asks them to.

But Plow is a different story. Maybe I am glass half empty with him and good on you for being more glass half full. But his mistakes are different to Jones or SPS who also had a massive error that cost us a goal against the flow when we had momentum. SPS was streaming up the middle and over kicked it and caused the turnover that went straight back the other way for a goal. I’m ok with that. But Plow directly costs us 2-3 goals a game just doing really dumb things. The amount of times he flies third man up, misses the spoil and let’s the ball get out the back to his opponent to score is unacceptable. It’s just dumb football. Last night he could have easily got a hand on a high ball heading towards goal but ran all wobbly and let it sail through just out of his reach when he could have easily touched it. His idiocy will never show in the stats. He doesn’t shank a kick to an opponent. But I have no idea how he doesn’t get dropped. The free he gave from wrapping his arms around his opponent in a marking contest was a typical average mistake all defenders make. That one was no big deal. The fact not one call was given to Levi in similar circumstances all night at the other end is the crap part.

Willo making a single howler in one game vs Plow giving away 2-3 goals most games is hardly a reasonable comparison.

Agree


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 3:40 pm 
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Bob Chitty

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Blue Vain wrote:
Crippa wrote:

Willo making a single howler in one game vs Plow giving away 2-3 goals most games is hardly a reasonable comparison.


I disagree. Willo fell over twice instead of giving it off, dropped a simple mark and since he returned to the side has been turning it over regularly. That said I understand mistakes are made but the good exceeds the bad. The same as it does with Plowman. People are keen to point out his mistakes but they overlook the substantial amount of good work he does.


Ok well maybe I’ll watch closer next week. Try to remove my bias and take a balanced look at him again.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:08 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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If anyone has watched the replay, is it worth watching?
Is it less frustrating the second time?

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:16 pm 
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Craig Bradley

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Not worth it frustrating you can play so badly and have 1 winner for the night we lose by 3 goals

Just think first 1.5 quarters against Tigers and Melbourne and say to yourself it’s just not worth the aggravation


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:37 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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frank dardew wrote:
Not worth it frustrating you can play so badly and have 1 winner for the night we lose by 3 goals

Just think first 1.5 quarters against Tigers and Melbourne and say to yourself it’s just not worth the aggravation

Thanks.
However, it is perplexing that we played so poorly, gave away a few cheap goals and missed some easy shots and still only lost by 3 goals. :confused:

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