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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 6:51 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
Posts: 20284
Location: North of the border
Blue Vain wrote:
keogh wrote:
It’s early days but that was shit.
We have too many average players. How long have I been saying that. The results are testimony to my negativity



We lost a game with Cripps, Betts, Murphy, Curnow, McGovern, McKay, SPS, Plowman, O'Brien, Marchbank missing from our best 22.
A starting midfield of Setterfield, Fisher and Walsh. Kreuzer and Martin playing 43 and 45% game time respectively. And you think your constant negativity has suddenly been vindicated? :lol:

Let's wait until we're a few games into the season proper before we run around screaming hysterically.

FWIW, I though Martin showed plenty. A threat in the air, hard at the contest and a good finisher. Fish did some nice things and once again our defence was good.
Hopefully Setterfield was unwell because he showed very little. An opportunity to play strong midfield time and his contested stuff was very poor. As was his defensive running which is usually quite good.
Ed spent plenty of time outside the centre squad which was probably a mistake. I'm glad they gave the kids opportunities but they probably needed a mature body in there with them.
Jack Silvagni? He's not secure enough in the best 22 to be serving up that rubbish and keeping a spot. 84% game time, 11 possessions at 36% efficiency and missing a goal from straight in front. Nah, not good enough.

Personally, I suspect I'm going through a "Shallow Hal" phase. I see Gibbons as a short, slowish, hard working flanker. Yet the players seem to view him as a 200cm, high marking, quick key forward. Maybe I need to get my eyes checked.

Bring on next Sunday. With a few players returning and a much stronger midfield, I'm expecting a strong showing and an optimistic lead in to Round 1.

Edit. Congrats to the WA supporters for getting out to watch the boys. It looked like we had plenty of the crowd in navy blue.
I wouldn't exactly have Obrien and Marchy in the best 22 and I think we better get used to Curnow McGovern and McKay spending long stints on the sidelines.
Not throwing in the towel just yet but yesterday was Shiite.
Effort was there but not much else.

We for years don't do the simple things right which is frustrating.
The number of times you see 2 to 3 Blues players applying a tackle for the ball to spill to the 2 loose Freo players at the same contest .
They get the overlap and away they go into open space and they looked more skilled.
We need to learn to apply pressure to the bloke who is about to get it not necessarily the bloke who has it.
Well we don't need 3 players doing it.
One is enough.

Hope to see a vast improvement next week .



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 7:33 pm 
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John James
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What does concern me is that they are professional players who are allegedly full time practising and working on their game. How it can be accepted that players "prepare" themselves and play like that? Practice match is just that, practice but you play like you practice. Good practice makes a difference. That is why yesterday was so disappointing from a skill and endeavour perspective.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:36 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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baz_baz wrote:
Donstuie wrote:
Was Freo missing anyone?


Yep. The pundits say about the same quality

So no excuses then

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:38 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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baz_baz wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
baz_baz wrote:
The other thing that really gets under my skin is the quality (on yesterday’s showing) of Freo’s 2-4 year players compared to ours.

Banfield, Shultz, Ryan, Cerra, Brayshaw and so it goes on.

On yesterday’s showing we are not in the same league with our development, Walsh aside. Even Fisher is less damaging than most of theirs


Which of their young mids were more damaging than Fisher?
And for the record, Banfield is 22, as is Schultz and Ryan is 24. Let's not get too despondent after 1 practice game full of kids.


Shultz 4
Banfield 2
Cerra 1
Sturt 1

Fisher 0


Fisher 4 score involvements, Cerra 3.
Fisher 27 possessions, 4 Clearances. Cerra 19 and 2.
Brayshaw, 3 score involvements, 19 possessions.
Sturt 9 possessions. 0 clearances. 0 tackles.
Fisher more metres gained than all of them.

With zero assistance and roving to a losing ruck, Fisher was a better contributor than all of them.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:57 pm 
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Geoff Southby

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Blue Sombrero wrote:
Adam Chatfield wrote:
Simmo was fine I thought.

Midfield was deplorably bad, though we were experimenting giving midfield time to younger guys generally.

What we found though is most those young players, are either not up to it yet or won’t be at all. Fisher at least gets involved but worries me with how high his ceiling actually is.

Dow doesn’t get it enough, hasn’t really bulked up, not sure he will ever be more than a fringe player.

Cuningham similar boat, doesn’t do enough. Needs a decent run at it with injury and string together at least 5-6 games in a row before making a final call, but maybe his body won’t allow that.

JSOS, Polson, Lang, and Kennedy hopefully don’t play much senior footy this year, if they are we are struggling.

Add McKay, McGovern, Eddie and a full game from Jack Martin to round 1 and things look a lot better up forward.

SPS, Kreuze, Murph and crippa will obviously help massively too.

I think a fair few guys got exposed today though and played themselves out of a chance for R1.

I thought Kreuzer played.


Only a half, and at half pace.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:18 pm 
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Geoff Southby

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Mickstar wrote:
Back to earth with a thud hey ! first in,best dressed.Freo were in for the ball first simple as that...............we trailed 'em in all day.Cant win a football game like that.
Anyhow,Weitering ( a modern day Chris Mew for mine ) played a great as all the backline did.They were up against it all day.............Fisher at least got far more of the ball than usual is a plus for me.Gotta do that every week............Polson was at least lively and showed some dash.Far from the worst for mine.........Paddy Dow ? was quite deft in patches and showed class BUT not enough.Too much talent and ability to write off at this stage but he needs a circuit breaker to reignite him.I would get him to run with the opposition's best ball winner.Just shadow a natural ball winner and hopefully lead him to the ball.Anything,coz he's stagnating badly........................i agree the new kid Philp showed a bit and i would persist for sure...............

The lack of run and ball winning between the arcs was glaring and i am afraid if some of these young ones who should be emerging don't put there hands up its gonna be hard work.Fantastic time to be at Carlton if you are a young guy with get up and go.For faaark sake someone take the bull by the horns and put your hand.Perfect opportunity right now.


Often individuals you can look more into than overall team performances in these games, as obviously winning isn't the be all and end all.

Thats where it still remains worrying as I didn't see anything better from Dow, Setterfield, Cuningham, JSOS, Kennedy, Lang or Newnes.

Admittedly the last 4 I saw as so better than fringe players, and all things being equal of JSOS, Kennedy, Lang and Newnes no more than 1 should play Round 1, if any.

The first 3 are the concerning ones, Dow doesn't look any better than he did last year, still too small and doesn't get involved enough.

Setterfield was terrible, and see him as no more than a solid foot soldier at this point, at best.

Cuningham now in his 5th season has only shown glimpses, and there comes a point when you stop hoping or expecting anything better than what we have seen.

We will see how things go obviously over the course of the season, but no one has a 100% hit rate with nailing young players in the draft and we probably just need to keep bringing more and more in.

Likely R1 team assuming no more injuries

B: Plowman Jones Simpson
HB Newman Weitering Docherty
W SPS Walsh Murphy
HF Martin Casboult Fisher
F Betts McKay McGovern
Foll Kreuzer Cripps E Curnow
Int Gibbons Setterfield Marchbank Cuningham
Emerg Dow JSOS Williamson

Could throw a blanket over the interchange and emergencies really, depends who plays well V Brisbane and what kind of balance we want. Others in the mix could be Stocker, Philp and LOB.

Gone from thinking we had to fit 28-30 into 22, now worrying we have to play some of them in a best 22.

Makes moving on Daisy seem even more weird considering we aren't blessed with quality.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:54 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Adam Chatfield wrote:
Blue Sombrero wrote:
Adam Chatfield wrote:
Simmo was fine I thought.

Midfield was deplorably bad, though we were experimenting giving midfield time to younger guys generally.

What we found though is most those young players, are either not up to it yet or won’t be at all. Fisher at least gets involved but worries me with how high his ceiling actually is.

Dow doesn’t get it enough, hasn’t really bulked up, not sure he will ever be more than a fringe player.

Cuningham similar boat, doesn’t do enough. Needs a decent run at it with injury and string together at least 5-6 games in a row before making a final call, but maybe his body won’t allow that.

JSOS, Polson, Lang, and Kennedy hopefully don’t play much senior footy this year, if they are we are struggling.

Add McKay, McGovern, Eddie and a full game from Jack Martin to round 1 and things look a lot better up forward.

SPS, Kreuze, Murph and crippa will obviously help massively too.

I think a fair few guys got exposed today though and played themselves out of a chance for R1.

I thought Kreuzer played.


Only a half, and at half pace.

Just like the rest of them, then...
Thanks

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:57 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Adam Chatfield wrote:
Mickstar wrote:
Back to earth with a thud hey ! first in,best dressed.Freo were in for the ball first simple as that...............we trailed 'em in all day.Cant win a football game like that.
Anyhow,Weitering ( a modern day Chris Mew for mine ) played a great as all the backline did.They were up against it all day.............Fisher at least got far more of the ball than usual is a plus for me.Gotta do that every week............Polson was at least lively and showed some dash.Far from the worst for mine.........Paddy Dow ? was quite deft in patches and showed class BUT not enough.Too much talent and ability to write off at this stage but he needs a circuit breaker to reignite him.I would get him to run with the opposition's best ball winner.Just shadow a natural ball winner and hopefully lead him to the ball.Anything,coz he's stagnating badly........................i agree the new kid Philp showed a bit and i would persist for sure...............

The lack of run and ball winning between the arcs was glaring and i am afraid if some of these young ones who should be emerging don't put there hands up its gonna be hard work.Fantastic time to be at Carlton if you are a young guy with get up and go.For faaark sake someone take the bull by the horns and put your hand.Perfect opportunity right now.


Often individuals you can look more into than overall team performances in these games, as obviously winning isn't the be all and end all.

Thats where it still remains worrying as I didn't see anything better from Dow, Setterfield, Cuningham, JSOS, Kennedy, Lang or Newnes.

Admittedly the last 4 I saw as so better than fringe players, and all things being equal of JSOS, Kennedy, Lang and Newnes no more than 1 should play Round 1, if any.

The first 3 are the concerning ones, Dow doesn't look any better than he did last year, still too small and doesn't get involved enough.

Setterfield was terrible, and see him as no more than a solid foot soldier at this point, at best.

Cuningham now in his 5th season has only shown glimpses, and there comes a point when you stop hoping or expecting anything better than what we have seen.

We will see how things go obviously over the course of the season, but no one has a 100% hit rate with nailing young players in the draft and we probably just need to keep bringing more and more in.

Likely R1 team assuming no more injuries

B: Plowman Jones Simpson
HB Newman Weitering Docherty
W SPS Walsh Murphy
HF Martin Casboult Fisher
F Betts McKay McGovern
Foll Kreuzer Cripps E Curnow
Int Gibbons Setterfield Marchbank Cuningham
Emerg Dow JSOS Williamson

Could throw a blanket over the interchange and emergencies really, depends who plays well V Brisbane and what kind of balance we want. Others in the mix could be Stocker, Philp and LOB.

Gone from thinking we had to fit 28-30 into 22, now worrying we have to play some of them in a best 22.

Makes moving on Daisy seem even more weird considering we aren't blessed with quality.

I think that's pretty right, although I am in the camp that thinks Marchbank, Newman and Plowman all in the one team is a bit tall. As you pointed out, pick any four from the bench and emergencies.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:34 am 
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Vale 1953-2020
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Great commentating "great ball movement - it's quick, it's fast, it's rapid...."

#thesauruswasonsale

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:15 am 
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John James
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moshe25 wrote:
Great commentating "great ball movement - it's quick, it's fast, it's rapid...."

#thesauruswasonsale

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:smile:


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:22 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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moshe25 wrote:
Great commentating "great ball movement - it's quick, it's fast, it's rapid...."

#thesauruswasonsale

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Was Rex commentating from the grave?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 12:24 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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The entire team looked like they had heavy legs to me, even Ed Curnow looked stuffed. I assumed pretty early in the game that Russell still has the team doing pre-season loads rather than being fresh for matches. Hope I’m right.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:05 pm 
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Bob Chitty

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Sin City wrote:
The entire team looked like they had heavy legs to me, even Ed Curnow looked stuffed. I assumed pretty early in the game that Russell still has the team doing pre-season loads rather than being fresh for matches. Hope I’m right.

Ditto


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:16 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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I miss the days when we used to win pre-season premierships.
We were so much better then.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:14 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Just finished watching the game.
It is bloody too hot at the beach this morning.
Nice to kick back in aircon to watch my Blue boys try a few things.
I knew the result so I just looked for the positive signs in comfort.

It was always going to be tough with 10 of our best missing and Martin and Kreuzer playing only half a game.
Furthermore, Ed playing half forward and looked spent, even in the first quarter.
And a decimated forwardline with Harry, Charlie,Gov, Betts missing from our best line up there.

Add the fact we are in a plane on the longest haul in the country playing on the opposition's home ground (well for those who played for Peel thunder)

Something just wasn't right with our pace and intensity from the get go. Training loads perhaps?

Our team did not go in hard as they did in preseason match simulations and last week's hit out.
I'm sure everyone noticed that. There were no hard hits dished out by Blue boys. The boys did not give 100% at the contest, and the thoughtless bombing it to Lobb was strange.
When we ran the ball forward, so often there was nothing ahead, hence bombing it to Levi in a 2 v 1 contest.

Kicking and handball were a bit off all day. You can't execute a game plan with that sort of disposal. It was an 'off' day.

Last praccy game vs Pies we seemed to hold our structures well, but that was with Cripps, Murphy and Ed in the engine room.

I loved Walsh and Fisher's game immensely. Fish and Walsh will be even more dangerous with Cripps, Murph and Ed as the primary mids.

Some of the things Dow did showed improvement and it seems obvious he has been told to take on the opposition, when at times he should have looked to give it off or double back as Walsh does. Just gors to show how mature Walsh is, let alone his game sense. I liked Dow, despite hoping for more.

Thought Jack started the game well and didn't allow the opposition win the ball when he wasn't around. His kicking wasn't measured. I guess he didnt show poise, like most of the team. Maybe this is why Setterfield's kicking was ordinary too. I thought Setters did nothing to impose that big frame on the contest which was disappointing. He played an outside role when I would have thought he would be playing inside mid with Cripps out, after the preseason he's had.

Gibbo knows where to run and find ball. That's his game. Played like a best 22 player moreso than others but lets not forget he is also playing for a spot in the 22.

Weiters was great, despite his kicking being a bit off. Jones OK.
Docherty still has his pace, thank god, and needed this game to dust the cobwebs.

Simmo is so daring, takes the hits and fronts up every week for the next game. Durable? Elasticman? Just dudts himself off and gets to the next contest.
No doubt there's chemistry and a bond between Doc and Simmo. I can't see Simmo giving anyone his spot in the backline in 2020. He is going to take the opportunity to gel with Doc with both hands.

Cunners looks good too...at times. I did expect more from him but he does little 1 %ers which may go unnoticed. He looked more dangerous when he played forward.

TDK just reminded me of Brisbane's Hipwood: the way he runs and jumps and turns on his kicking leg...TDK will develop into a very good footballer. I'm sure with Betts and martin at his feet he will bring the ball down every contest when he doesn't mark, but for now its Levi who is the target with Harry Charlie and Gov out...der. I don't like it when he's the only man in the forwardline because if he doesn't mark the long bomb, then the 2nd Freo defender who was always loitering in the vicinit will run it out of our forwardlne without any pressure. That's where opponents strat most of their play.

Betts, Martin, Jsos and Gov will provide better pressure and lock it in moreso than what was displayed in this game. I have no doubt.

A lot of silly stuff when we had 2 or 3 v 1 in our favour...that's something they will highlight today and work on for the next game....they need to. But then again it may have been a case of the 'bounce of the ball' going FREO'S way all day, including umpire decisions. Not the reason we lost, but it certainly contributed to the end score line looking so uneven.

I didn't think Freo were a 5 goal better team let alone 47 points. Boys didn't fight it out, and I'm not worrying about that too much given there was no percentage or points to save or play for.

Despite Newmans high finish in the BnF he still plays the same defensive game. Not great one on one, gets a bit lost hits the ground too much, but is great when he's receiving the ball on his own. Newnes didn't show much. If only he dished out a heavy hit with that mature frame to give us something to admire, but not much on that front.

Philp looks a likely type. Maybe not this year, but another preseason and look out.

Polson was a surprise packet, but can't see him pushing ahead of Williamson or Newman, let alone Simmo and doc.

We have plenty of dangerous players that will star this year, like Walsh, Fisher, Martin did yesterday, along with Weiters, Jones, Ed, Levi, Kreuzer, Doc and Simmo who we can count on, and the addition to yesterday's team of Cripps, Murphy, Betts, Harry, Charlie, Gov, SPS, Marchbank, and maybe LOB if he's favoured by MC....geez that's a lot of class and talent missing yesterday...I am expecting a very competitive team in 2020.

When one team comes to play hard footy and the other doesn't, regardless where its played, its going to be a bit one sided on the highlights reel, and it was.
Against that back drop, we did alright till the last quarter considering our horrible execution by hand and foot, and the 8-9 players missing from our best team yesterday.

Cunners Setters Dow and Jack can and will play much better than they did.

Jury is still out for me (and I have doubts) with Newnes, Newman and Kennedy, and you can put the ruler through Lang and Moore for the seniors.

I look forward to the game next week against 2019 top 4 team Brizzy who are in good form and no injuries. They will test us...bottom 4 in 2019, with Harry and Charlie missing, possibly Go and Marchy too.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 3:43 pm 
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Robert Walls

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ColourMan wrote:

And some posters wonder why SOS was sacked!

The three youngsters I’m referring to are SPS, Fisher and Dow; and, many posters here have either already written them off or have massive concerns about them...


Diabolical post.

A whole preseason to train on some new material, and still dropping long bombs on SOS.

Positives
No need to read posts, the content is the same even if the words are rearranged

Negatives
There will be no end, the same thing will continue to be posted over and over and over again.

It may be correct, you have clearly have already made up your mind and opinion, but it doesn't get any more interesting with each time you post it. Of course, you're free to continue but its pretty boring stuff at this point. Any other thoughts however, could be interesting. But "SOS sucks" isn't.

Looks like someone has wasted the last three months, possibly as much as Carlton's skills coach. :grin:


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:33 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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baz_baz wrote:
Donstuie wrote:
Was Freo missing anyone?


Yep. The pundits say about the same quality


Names?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:43 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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toddkurnski wrote:
ColourMan wrote:

And some posters wonder why SOS was sacked!

The three youngsters I’m referring to are SPS, Fisher and Dow; and, many posters here have either already written them off or have massive concerns about them...


Diabolical post.

A whole preseason to train on some new material, and still dropping long bombs on SOS.

Positives
No need to read posts, the content is the same even if the words are rearranged

Negatives
There will be no end, the same thing will continue to be posted over and over and over again.

It may be correct, you have clearly have already made up your mind and opinion, but it doesn't get any more interesting with each time you post it. Of course, you're free to continue but its pretty boring stuff at this point. Any other thoughts however, could be interesting. But "SOS sucks" isn't.

Looks like someone has wasted the last three months, possibly as much as Carlton's skills coach. :grin:




Not sure what the point of your post is, other than to play the man.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:13 pm 
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Robert Walls

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AGRO wrote:
toddkurnski wrote:
ColourMan wrote:

And some posters wonder why SOS was sacked!

The three youngsters I’m referring to are SPS, Fisher and Dow; and, many posters here have either already written them off or have massive concerns about them...


Diabolical post.

A whole preseason to train on some new material, and still dropping long bombs on SOS.

Positives
No need to read posts, the content is the same even if the words are rearranged

Negatives
There will be no end, the same thing will continue to be posted over and over and over again.

It may be correct, you have clearly have already made up your mind and opinion, but it doesn't get any more interesting with each time you post it. Of course, you're free to continue but its pretty boring stuff at this point. Any other thoughts however, could be interesting. But "SOS sucks" isn't.

Looks like someone has wasted the last three months, possibly as much as Carlton's skills coach. :grin:




Not sure what the point of your post is, other than to play the man.


Am I not allowed to point out if a poster only keeps posting the same thing over and over? Gets pretty old in my opinion.

It’s 2020. It’s a practice match. Fisher was actually quite good. SOS has been gone for what, 3 months. And again it’s all about SOS.

In any case, the poster can just ignore it and continue to keep posting the same point. No problem, I’ll just scroll past as I already know what it says. Just don’t see the value. It’s boring in my opinion.

Or maybe they can take on board that we already know they’re glad SOS is gone, and contribute something more meaningful than “thank god SOS is gone”.

And I’ll apologise if the poster feels like I played the man.


Last edited by toddkurnski on Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:27 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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toddkurnski wrote:
AGRO wrote:
toddkurnski wrote:
ColourMan wrote:

And some posters wonder why SOS was sacked!

The three youngsters I’m referring to are SPS, Fisher and Dow; and, many posters here have either already written them off or have massive concerns about them...


Diabolical post.

A whole preseason to train on some new material, and still dropping long bombs on SOS.

Positives
No need to read posts, the content is the same even if the words are rearranged

Negatives
There will be no end, the same thing will continue to be posted over and over and over again.

It may be correct, you have clearly have already made up your mind and opinion, but it doesn't get any more interesting with each time you post it. Of course, you're free to continue but its pretty boring stuff at this point. Any other thoughts however, could be interesting. But "SOS sucks" isn't.

Looks like someone has wasted the last three months, possibly as much as Carlton's skills coach. :grin:




Not sure what the point of your post is, other than to play the man.


Am I not allowed to point out if a poster only keeps posting the same thing over and over? Gets pretty old in my opinion.

It’s 2020. It’s a practice match. Fisher was actually quite good. SOS has been gone for what, 3 months. And again it’s all about SOS.

In any case, the poster can just ignore it and continue to keep posting the same point. No problem, I’ll just scroll past as I already know what it says. Just don’t see the value. It’s boring in my opinion.

Or maybe they can take on board that we already know they’re glad SOS is gone, and contribute something more meaningful than “thank god SOS is gone”.




If you read instead of just assume, he didn’t pot Fisher, SPS or Dow.

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