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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 8:36 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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So this year we have been very competitive in almost all games, we haven’t had any big losses, we have been consistently scoring heavily and the transition between our defence to attack has been working well.

Where we are still struggling is team defence.

Am I wrong to say that Teague is progressively laying the foundations for a strong playing methodology and if we can perfect our transition and attack this season, then fix our team defence in the off season we will be real contenders in 2022?

Am I crazy?


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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 8:46 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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Love the positivity and maybe we just need to hold our nerve a little longer BUT...

When we concede 30+ points in 2 out of every 3 games, I'll be FIIK WTF they are learning and what DT is FW teaching them

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Last edited by 99prelim on Wed May 12, 2021 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 8:48 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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sinbagger wrote:
Am I crazy?




No, you're not. Good positive outlook! Disagree that our transition between our defence to attack has been working well though.

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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 8:50 pm 
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Bob Chitty
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On the surface it is, if you scratch a little we are travelling as expected.

It's one thing players executing game plan to instructions and another instilling a strong team culture which the team is trying to do, I am sure of it.

There are some very positive signs whether one can see them or not. Strong team culture is what is going to win flags. We have a bit to go as players still mastering game plan on defensive transition.

But training with intent with an above average injury list where our best players are training together with intensity every week and players dropped for underperformance rather than being gifted games out of necessity is this teams next step.

I can see it coming together and need strong characters in the dressing room more than ever.


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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 9:25 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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CK95 wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
Am I crazy?




No, you're not. Good positive outlook! Disagree that our transition between our defence to attack has been working well though.


According to Fox we are 5th best in the league for it.

That surprised me too

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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 9:38 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Was just thinking this....but as supporters we are all scarred by the last 20 years.

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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 10:00 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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I think the reason we are all so frustrated is that we can see how close the team are, just a few more improvements, tighten up team defence and fix all those injuries.

We should know by early next season if team defence is fixed but not sure how we address all the injuries….


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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 10:24 am 
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Wayne Johnston
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I think we're just so anxious for some success and as sinbagger said, we're frustrated because we're close but not quite there yet. In most games I've seen I feel like something is just not quite clicking. The effort is there.

The club coming out pre-season and saying FINALS FINALS FINALS probably got a few hopes up too, and the media response to our season has been a little over the top IMO. I guess they bought into the pre-season message from the club?

The fact we still have 5-6 goal swings and injuries has been disappointing though.


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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 10:33 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Centre clearances and stopping opponents from kicking more than 2-3 goals in a row.
Fix those and Carlton is pressing for top 8.

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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 12:04 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:38 pm
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3-6 after 9 rounds suggests that things aren’t going well

A team with Williams Saad Cripps Walsh Weitering and H should be doing better than that in my view


I do think injuries and long term ones have made us vulnerable for the most part Fisher Martin Curnow JSOS McGovern TDK Curnow Marchbank Newman have hardly or not played
Even Oscar McDonald going down as well as injuries to Kemp and Carroll haven’t helped
A fair bit of talent there on the sidelines

However no excuse for every week not playing 4 quarters and being scored against heavily during phases of games

Very disappointed with the development of young players Dow Setterfield OBrien SPS Williamson Stocker just to name a few
So understand some positivity I think Weitering Walsh H all been tremendous and I think Saad has been generally good and Eddie Curnow docherty Fogarty Cottrell Cunningham Jones Plowman serviceable but not consistent
Got little or nothing out of Murphy Williamson Casboult Pitto Cripps (now we know why)Williams
Good that we are getting games into Parks Owies Cottrell Fogarty and Stocker -each have made blues but have some potential


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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 1:42 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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We are miles off being a top 4 team 6 years into a rebuild
Top 4 is where you want to be to have a decent crack at a flag
There is a big difference from top 4 and fifth to eighth.
The dogs in 2016 is an outliner. That scenario rarely happens
One common thread amongst all the successful teams is their teams core for success comes from drafting kids who become great players.
I believe we should of change course and gone down this path around 2019.

Port are the best example of this.
They traded Polec Wingard and a few others because they could see they were not good enough
Yes they also have got in some experience as well but
They realized that they had to change course
The inner sanctum at Carlton believes we are on the right course
So far there isn’t enough proof of that because the W columns numbers ain’t high enough


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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 2:26 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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Thanks Keogh for adding zero value to the conversation and ignoring my initial post...


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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 3:10 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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sinbagger wrote:
Thanks Keogh for adding zero value to the conversation and ignoring my initial post...

Not really ignoring
And I don’t think I am adding zero to the argument
I believe if you want to talk about defensive methology and focus on the coach you need to take a step back and look at List Management
Have a real close look at what we done in the last 6 years.
As usual too much emphasis is on the coach at Carlton when the club isn’t reaching its goals

I admire Liam Jones because he has no fear.
But he is a dumb footballer. He puts himself in the wrong positions every week
That’s got nothing to do with coaching metrology. That’s about handing out contract to blokes that other smarter clubs wouldn’t
Have a look at Plowman
Wouldn’t get a game at some clubs yet has played over 100 at Carlton

And the midfield depth or lack of it is the major issue
Hinkley and co didn’t overrate their list a few years ago
They sort it without bias and made courageous changes to the List picking kids again and resetting

At the end of the year there is enough footy to pretty much wipe out all the variables
If you finish bottom 6 that’s what you are
A bottom six team
That’s ok if your in the early stages of a rebuild
Not 6 years into it


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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 3:33 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Can you really be 6 years in if the coach hasn't been in charge for 6 years yet?

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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 3:37 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Wojee wrote:
Can you really be 6 years in if the coach hasn't been in charge for 6 years yet?

Ahh, if a tree falls in the woods and no one is around does it make a sound?


Not sure where I am going this but it sounded cryptic.


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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 4:00 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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Can you really be in a rebuild when a large chunk of your team is either on the injury list or playing injured.

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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 4:28 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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We haven't lost a game by more than 5 goals over the last 2 years.

This year, that's with walshy playing a lone hand in the middle with aggressive running (and Ed's grunt support), Harry playing lone ranger forward without Charlie (Gov or SOS), and the irrepressible Weitering stopping everything he can with doof heads giving easy goals away around him.

We have a huge injury list, and playing injured players, but have been in every game this year, with the exception of Port, but we really were spent after the Gold Coast game, and kept them to 28 points. Fact. We wre spent so much after the GCS game, Jack couldn't front the next week after playing 90% game time (I know he got injured) :wink:

Take out the old struggling men Betts 35, Murphy 34, and Casboult 31 and we have the youngest team in the AFL. Non of the oldies been helpful when it counted, nor have they set the world on fire this year, nor can anyone rightfully say they have carried this team.

Yet we've lost games this year against 2020 finalists and top 8 teams this year by 16, 18, 21, 25 and 28 points because of "Teague's Gift".

I blame the Head Coach and the MC who play injured players instead of players who are fitter and who we need to develop in the position we drafted them (not all at once), and the Conditioning Coach who gives injured players the all clear to play, then have to watch our team of 15 or 16 fit players take on 22 fit players for over 4 quarters. Any wonder why "Teague's Gift" happens?

No, it is not List Management. We are not that far off. We have another Trade/ Draft period to top up with a bonafide Midfielder and some support to ruck and KPD, and further develop the 9 first round draftees not playing senior footy.

My view on teague's Presser today explains the blame :mad:

http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=36678&start=1800

Everything is fixable and quickly too.

At the end of the year, we WILL replace Betts, Murphy and Casboult for starters.

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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 4:34 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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keogh wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
Thanks Keogh for adding zero value to the conversation and ignoring my initial post...

Not really ignoring
And I don’t think I am adding zero to the argument
I believe if you want to talk about defensive methology and focus on the coach you need to take a step back and look at List Management
Have a real close look at what we done in the last 6 years.
As usual too much emphasis is on the coach at Carlton when the club isn’t reaching its goals

I admire Liam Jones because he has no fear.
But he is a dumb footballer. He puts himself in the wrong positions every week
That’s got nothing to do with coaching metrology. That’s about handing out contract to blokes that other smarter clubs wouldn’t
Have a look at Plowman
Wouldn’t get a game at some clubs yet has played over 100 at Carlton

And the midfield depth or lack of it is the major issue
Hinkley and co didn’t overrate their list a few years ago
They sort it without bias and made courageous changes to the List picking kids again and resetting

At the end of the year there is enough footy to pretty much wipe out all the variables
If you finish bottom 6 that’s what you are
A bottom six team
That’s ok if your in the early stages of a rebuild
Not 6 years into it


Give me our list with all of them fit and I can replace Jones, Plowman whoever else obviously no warranted games for different reason.

Get Hinkley to coach this list and he will select a team with fit players who can play 4 quarters and select players who will not have second thoughts about entering a contest. What else he'll do is ask Austin to recruit a couple of players to compliment what we already have. He was lucky to have 4 ruckmen and was able to give away Ryder...he would be Ok for our midfield group as oppossed to Pitto...yeah that's list management, but it is NOT the whole list as you seen to press a view on.

We have plenty of good players. More than you can poke a stick at :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 4:46 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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muzza wrote:
Wojee wrote:
Can you really be 6 years in if the coach hasn't been in charge for 6 years yet?

Ahh, if a tree falls in the woods and no one is around does it make a sound?


Not sure where I am going this but it sounded cryptic.



if a carlton player falls in the woods and no one is around, what injuries would they sustain?

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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 5:06 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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At the moment there are 181 players who can’t play because there injured. That’s an average of 10 per team.
Carlton have 10 players who can’t play because their injured
I would say with a fair degree of confidence that most clubs have guys who go out onto the field of battle with a niggle or two
Let’s have a look whose injured
McGovern done stuff all
Murphy cooked anyway
Philip Played a couple of games
Kemp not played at all
Martin so overrated soft as warm butter had a couple of cameo quarters put in the midfield next to useless
Marchbank another overrated player excellent Mark poor decision maker body is made of cardboard hasn’t played for 2 years
McDonald luck to be on an AFL list
SOJ very overrated by supporters shocking kick slow
We miss Fisher and Charlie that’s it

Look at Brisbane
One year ahead of us and they have eight guys out
One is Neale their best mid one is Berry who is their third or fourth best mid
Raymor is overrated but can be dangerous
That’s like saying we have Walsh Ed Curnow and Eddie out of our team
Where do you reckon we would be with that scenario.
North would beat us
Good lists have depth

Brisbane have recruited better than us

It comes down to List Management


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