Talking Carlton Index Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington CFC Home CFC Membership CFC Shop CFC Fixture Blueseum
It is currently Fri Mar 29, 2024 9:27 am

All times are UTC + 10 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 5310 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 169, 170, 171, 172, 173, 174, 175 ... 266  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:32 pm 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:06 pm
Posts: 33646
Location: Half back flank
The_Cranium wrote:
I honestly have no idea. We've been burnt whichever way we've gone in the past. The only thing we haven't done is stuck fat... which I actually think will be the hardest decision to make. From the outside looking in, Teague doesn't seem to be able to make things happen when plan A doesn't work. Does he just need better assistants? Or have we seen enough to say he ain't the man? I just hope that those making the decision make the right call for once



This is about where I sit. I'm leaning towards Teague with very little logical backup, & more just the feeling that why don't we just be patient for once & stick with our own. I know that's not a really strong argument in his favour.

If not Teague then it's Lyon from Clarkson for me. As a mate said to me the other day, Lyon's a boring coach, but he wouldn't be able to make our side boring would he?

Not as averse to Clarkson as others on here, wouldn't be against it. But a part of me would prefer he went to Collingwood & it went pear shaped.

_________________
#DonTheStash


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:55 pm 
Offline
Banned

Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:55 pm
Posts: 2333
The club and its rash decisions need to take a back seat.

When his contract is up next season then make an informed decision like a proper professional organisation.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:10 am 
Offline
Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:42 pm
Posts: 1914
Location: dudley!!!
Walsh wrote:
The club and its rash decisions need to take a back seat.

When his contract is up next season then make an informed decision like a proper professional organisation.


dream on....

_________________
my last one was rubbish


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:38 am 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:17 am
Posts: 17151
Location: threeohfivethree
Walsh wrote:
The club and its rash decisions need to take a back seat.

When his contract is up next season then make an informed decision like a proper professional organisation.


So you’re saying you think we should stick with Teague?

_________________
"Liberals feel unworthy of their possessions. Conservatives feel they deserve everything they've stolen."

Mort Sahl


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:41 am 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17517
This has nothing to do with "rash decisions' IMHO.
We are conducting a review. Now is the perfect time to gather the information, assess the findings, make decisions and move forward.

FWIW, I believe the team is finally structuring up well. I take little notice of last weeks result. As I said elsewhere, we'd reached our tipping point with personnel and went into the game with no weapons. We had a strategy of hitting up small forwards which required us to create space but it also exposed us going the other way. Having a tall forward gives our team a reference point to structure up. The small forwards know where the ball is going and the defenders know how to set up behind the ball. When you have a scatter gun approach, if you lose possession, you are totally exposed on transition. We missed our targets and we paid the price.
But what were the options? A full defensive flood to try for a nil all draw? We went in with a strategy which was worth the effort, it didn't work, we learn from it and move on.
We saw the enormous value of having 2 forward targets on Friday.

My concerns with Teague have been-

Playing mature mids from day 1. Bolton played the kids and gave them exposure and Teague reversed that. Did it provide value by creating more of a "must win" culture or did it limit/harm the development of our kids? Hopefully the review will provide answers.

Having a full offensive strategy with little regard to defence. We have been disorganised behind the ball until the last 6 weeks. No connection between the lines and scant communication. Bludgers were tolerated and most importantly, there appeared minimal effort to address it. What's worse, our 2 captains were afforded roles that allowed them to be the least accountable.
How is that an acceptable situation?
During media interviews players were asked about halting 5 goal runs. Responses included Teague telling the players not to go back into their shells and to keep attacking. :?
Teams need more than one gear and having 2+ years coaching the team is more than sufficient time. As I've mentioned elsewhere, a sound game plan includes teaching all phases of the game and how each correlates and impacts the other. You cant teach one phase and expect to sprinkle the others over the top down the track.

So the review has a lot to assess. FWIW, I'm leaning away from Clarkson and Lyon. I'm not sure Clarko will be coming for the right reasons. He seems uncertain of what he wants to do next year. If you're not 100%, you're not what we're looking for. Similar to Lyon.
I think Pyke could be a decent option but that's up to others to decide. You'd love to sit in on an interview with him to see what he's learnt and what he believes could offer. Tactically and culturally.

I'm not averse to Teague continuing but answers need to be forthcoming. We've looked well organised the past 6 weeks. Why did it take so long, what contributed to the changes and are they sustainable?
What were the impediments to our progression? Are they personnel, facilities, lack of resources (Assistant coaches, fitness staff, board/administrative)
Were they resistance or stubbornness from the coach/coaches or a lack of strategic IQ?
If we are finally up to speed with current strategies and tactics, can we ride the wave and progress or will be regress once the review outcomes are revealed and contracts are renewed?

A lot of important decisions to be made and I'm glad we'll be armed with some external views to help make those decisions.
Personally, I'm leaning toward Teague staying with a mentor to oversee our program. Not someone chosen by Teague but someone decided by the club.
Someone who reports to the administration or the board on a regular basis. Whether it be a Clarkson or even a Leppitsch or Leigh Matthews would be interested, I'm unsure. Someone who ensures the coaches are receiving the support they need, to ensure all aspects of the football department are functioning cohesively and the coaches are strategically staying with the front runners. It Teague and co cant function and flourish under those conditions, see ya later.

_________________
Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:42 am 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:17 am
Posts: 17151
Location: threeohfivethree
Blue Vain wrote:
This has nothing to do with "rash decisions' IMHO.
We are conducting a review. Now is the perfect time to gather the information, assess the findings, make decisions and move forward.

FWIW, I believe the team is finally structuring up well. I take little notice of last weeks result. As I said elsewhere, we'd reached our tipping point with personnel and went into the game with no weapons. We had a strategy of hitting up small forwards which required us to create space but it also exposed us going the other way. Having a tall forward gives our team a reference point to structure up. The small forwards know where the ball is going and the defenders know how to set up behind the ball. When you have a scatter gun approach, if you lose possession, you are totally exposed on transition. We missed our targets and we paid the price.
But what were the options? A full defensive flood to try for a nil all draw? We went in with a strategy which was worth the effort, it didn't work, we learn from it and move on.
We saw the enormous value of having 2 forward targets on Friday.

My concerns with Teague have been-

Playing mature mids from day 1. Bolton played the kids and gave them exposure and Teague reversed that. Did it provide value by creating more of a "must win" culture or did it limit/harm the development of our kids? Hopefully the review will provide answers.

Having a full offensive strategy with little regard to defence. We have been disorganised behind the ball until the last 6 weeks. No connection between the lines and scant communication. Bludgers were tolerated and most importantly, there appeared minimal effort to address it. What's worse, our 2 captains were afforded roles that allowed them to be the least accountable.
How is that an acceptable situation?
During media interviews players were asked about halting 5 goal runs. Responses included Teague telling the players not to go back into their shells and to keep attacking. :?
Teams need more than one gear and having 2+ years coaching the team is more than sufficient time. As I've mentioned elsewhere, a sound game plan includes teaching all phases of the game and how each correlates and impacts the other. You cant teach one phase and expect to sprinkle the others over the top down the track.

So the review has a lot to assess. FWIW, I'm leaning away from Clarkson and Lyon. I'm not sure Clarko will be coming for the right reasons. He seems uncertain of what he wants to do next year. If you're not 100%, you're not what we're looking for. Similar to Lyon.
I think Pyke could be a decent option but that's up to others to decide. You'd love to sit in on an interview with him to see what he's learnt and what he believes could offer. Tactically and culturally.

I'm not averse to Teague continuing but answers need to be forthcoming. We've looked well organised the past 6 weeks. Why did it take so long, what contributed to the changes and are they sustainable?
What were the impediments to our progression? Are they personnel, facilities, lack of resources (Assistant coaches, fitness staff, board/administrative)
Were they resistance or stubbornness from the coach/coaches or a lack of strategic IQ?
If we are finally up to speed with current strategies and tactics, can we ride the wave and progress or will be regress once the review outcomes are revealed and contracts are renewed?

A lot of important decisions to be made and I'm glad we'll be armed with some external views to help make those decisions.
Personally, I'm leaning toward Teague staying with a mentor to oversee our program. Not someone chosen by Teague but someone decided by the club.
Someone who reports to the administration or the board on a regular basis. Whether it be a Clarkson or even a Leppitsch or Leigh Matthews would be interested, I'm unsure. Someone who ensures the coaches are receiving the support they need, to ensure all aspects of the football department are functioning cohesively and the coaches are strategically staying with the front runners. It Teague and co cant function and flourish under those conditions, see ya later.


Sounds like a good path forward depending on the outcome of the review.

_________________
"Liberals feel unworthy of their possessions. Conservatives feel they deserve everything they've stolen."

Mort Sahl


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:47 am 
Offline
Ken Hands

Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:54 pm
Posts: 415
Has Worsfold had any influence on Teague’s coaching since being appointed as a mentor ? (All be it remotely ) . Just wondering as nothing has been made mention of this.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:50 am 
Offline
Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
Posts: 20209
Location: North of the border
I am all for the senior mentor but we don't want to be playing " Where's Woosha"

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

_________________
If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:53 am 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17517
Worsfold isn't coaching because he's slow to react/evolve strategically. That's possibly our problem already.
I doubt he's what we're looking for but that's for others to decide.

_________________
Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:00 am 
Offline
Banned

Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:55 pm
Posts: 2333
Waterman wrote:
Has Worsfold had any influence on Teague’s coaching since being appointed as a mentor ? (All be it remotely ) . Just wondering as nothing has been made mention of this.


Teague was assistant coach at WCE for three years 2011-2013

Has been highly regarded ever since


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:47 am 
Offline
Craig Bradley

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:38 pm
Posts: 7640
Great post BV and agree entirely
Can we please move now from the vacuous everyone wants to get rid of Teague narrative and everyone who supports the thrust of the review aren’t true supporters etc
BV has encapsulated the position well
Let’s wait for the outworkings of the review which hopefully will enable the Board to make an appropriate and measured decision about both our footy dept and in particular our coaches including our senior coach


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 11:10 am 
Offline
Harry Vallence
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 10:49 am
Posts: 1581
Walsh wrote:
The club and its rash decisions need to take a back seat.

When his contract is up next season then make an informed decision like a proper professional organisation.


Exactly let’s just flush another season away after all it’s being our modus operandi, for a few decades.
what’s another season.

_________________
Go Blue Boys


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 11:27 am 
Offline
Banned

Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:55 pm
Posts: 2333
bmaurizio wrote:
Walsh wrote:
The club and its rash decisions need to take a back seat.

When his contract is up next season then make an informed decision like a proper professional organisation.


Exactly let’s just flush another season away after all it’s being our modus operandi, for a few decades.
what’s another season.


Squad is in an upward trajectory - making rash decision on current trend is stupidity at the highest possible levels.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 11:41 am 
Offline
Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:39 pm
Posts: 1002
bmaurizio wrote:
Walsh wrote:
The club and its rash decisions need to take a back seat.

When his contract is up next season then make an informed decision like a proper professional organisation.


Exactly let’s just flush another season away after all it’s being our modus operandi, for a few decades.
what’s another season.


Why would it be flushing another season?

Teague has had 1 year with bastardised rules in a COVID impacted season and another with an injury list longer than the Great Wall and yet has stopped the floggings, been in winning positions in most games and improved our percentage by 20%+

I don't mind giving Teague the term of his contract to see if he can get the players to bring a consistent effort and play finals next year.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 11:46 am 
Offline
Craig Bradley
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 21, 2005 5:15 pm
Posts: 6782
Walsh wrote:
bmaurizio wrote:
Walsh wrote:
The club and its rash decisions need to take a back seat.

When his contract is up next season then make an informed decision like a proper professional organisation.


Exactly let’s just flush another season away after all it’s being our modus operandi, for a few decades.
what’s another season.


Squad is in an upward trajectory - making rash decision on current trend is stupidity at the highest possible levels.

If we're sacking Teague next year and Clarko is already coaching the pies, the board will get smashed... that's the dilemma they face

_________________
“I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” ― Richard Feynman


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 11:52 am 
Offline
Ken Hunter
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:55 pm
Posts: 11514
Location: Brisbane
If improving culture is a focal point of the review, don't get Clarkson.


If winning more games is a focal point of the review, who knows...

_________________
THEY LIKE TO SEND UP!!!!!!!!

Until each team plays each other the same number of times, the AFL, as a fair dinkum competition, cannot be taken seriously.

He (Mr Swann) said the honour and pride associated with the club's traditional navy blue jumper was priceless.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:07 pm 
Offline
Banned

Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:55 pm
Posts: 2333
Hornet wrote:
Walsh wrote:
bmaurizio wrote:
Walsh wrote:
The club and its rash decisions need to take a back seat.

When his contract is up next season then make an informed decision like a proper professional organisation.


Exactly let’s just flush another season away after all it’s being our modus operandi, for a few decades.
what’s another season.


Squad is in an upward trajectory - making rash decision on current trend is stupidity at the highest possible levels.

If we're sacking Teague next year and Clarko is already coaching the pies, the board will get smashed... that's the dilemma they face


If Pies finish last next year under Clarko (because thats the trend he is at - probably get there this year) and we make finals. Then the board should still be sacked. Just get rid the lot of them.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:32 pm 
Offline
Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22924
Location: Bondi Beach
CK95 wrote:
The_Cranium wrote:
I honestly have no idea. We've been burnt whichever way we've gone in the past. The only thing we haven't done is stuck fat... which I actually think will be the hardest decision to make. From the outside looking in, Teague doesn't seem to be able to make things happen when plan A doesn't work. Does he just need better assistants? Or have we seen enough to say he ain't the man? I just hope that those making the decision make the right call for once



This is about where I sit. I'm leaning towards Teague with very little logical backup, & more just the feeling that why don't we just be patient for once & stick with our own. I know that's not a really strong argument in his favour.

If not Teague then it's Lyon from Clarkson for me. As a mate said to me the other day, Lyon's a boring coach, but he wouldn't be able to make our side boring would he?

Not as averse to Clarkson as others on here, wouldn't be against it. But a part of me would prefer he went to Collingwood & it went pear shaped.



Were the Saints boring under Lyon when he had the 2 gun Key Posts in the forward line in Gherig and Riewoldt? Lenny Hayes driving the midfield?

Sound familiar? ... McKay, Curnow, Walsh.

There were times where they played a dour game, but usually won them. Freo had a percentage of around 135 in their GF year, 8 years ago, and Pavlich was not in the Top 10 in the BnF.

Things change and there are no guarantees. No one has a crystal ball. Who really knows? Everyone is right in their own way.

_________________
Everyone looks good in Navy Blue


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:58 pm 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:06 pm
Posts: 33646
Location: Half back flank
True, they definitely weren't boring when they used to beat us by 15 goals :grin:

_________________
#DonTheStash


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:01 pm 
Offline
Geoff Southby
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:09 pm
Posts: 5826
Blue Vain wrote:
This has nothing to do with "rash decisions' IMHO.
We are conducting a review. Now is the perfect time to gather the information, assess the findings, make decisions and move forward.

FWIW, I believe the team is finally structuring up well. I take little notice of last weeks result. As I said elsewhere, we'd reached our tipping point with personnel and went into the game with no weapons. We had a strategy of hitting up small forwards which required us to create space but it also exposed us going the other way. Having a tall forward gives our team a reference point to structure up. The small forwards know where the ball is going and the defenders know how to set up behind the ball. When you have a scatter gun approach, if you lose possession, you are totally exposed on transition. We missed our targets and we paid the price.
But what were the options? A full defensive flood to try for a nil all draw? We went in with a strategy which was worth the effort, it didn't work, we learn from it and move on.
We saw the enormous value of having 2 forward targets on Friday.

My concerns with Teague have been-

Playing mature mids from day 1. Bolton played the kids and gave them exposure and Teague reversed that. Did it provide value by creating more of a "must win" culture or did it limit/harm the development of our kids? Hopefully the review will provide answers.

Having a full offensive strategy with little regard to defence. We have been disorganised behind the ball until the last 6 weeks. No connection between the lines and scant communication. Bludgers were tolerated and most importantly, there appeared minimal effort to address it. What's worse, our 2 captains were afforded roles that allowed them to be the least accountable.
How is that an acceptable situation?
During media interviews players were asked about halting 5 goal runs. Responses included Teague telling the players not to go back into their shells and to keep attacking. :?
Teams need more than one gear and having 2+ years coaching the team is more than sufficient time. As I've mentioned elsewhere, a sound game plan includes teaching all phases of the game and how each correlates and impacts the other. You cant teach one phase and expect to sprinkle the others over the top down the track.

So the review has a lot to assess. FWIW, I'm leaning away from Clarkson and Lyon. I'm not sure Clarko will be coming for the right reasons. He seems uncertain of what he wants to do next year. If you're not 100%, you're not what we're looking for. Similar to Lyon.
I think Pyke could be a decent option but that's up to others to decide. You'd love to sit in on an interview with him to see what he's learnt and what he believes could offer. Tactically and culturally.

I'm not averse to Teague continuing but answers need to be forthcoming. We've looked well organised the past 6 weeks. Why did it take so long, what contributed to the changes and are they sustainable?
What were the impediments to our progression? Are they personnel, facilities, lack of resources (Assistant coaches, fitness staff, board/administrative)
Were they resistance or stubbornness from the coach/coaches or a lack of strategic IQ?
If we are finally up to speed with current strategies and tactics, can we ride the wave and progress or will be regress once the review outcomes are revealed and contracts are renewed?

A lot of important decisions to be made and I'm glad we'll be armed with some external views to help make those decisions.
Personally, I'm leaning toward Teague staying with a mentor to oversee our program. Not someone chosen by Teague but someone decided by the club.
Someone who reports to the administration or the board on a regular basis. Whether it be a Clarkson or even a Leppitsch or Leigh Matthews would be interested, I'm unsure. Someone who ensures the coaches are receiving the support they need, to ensure all aspects of the football department are functioning cohesively and the coaches are strategically staying with the front runners. It Teague and co cant function and flourish under those conditions, see ya later.


Excellent post. I’m leaning the same way, but I think it’s very hard to assess coaches without being inside the club - so I’m genuinely open to the recommendations of the review. I’m trying to put aside my inherent cynicism about ‘independent reviews’ because not many are genuinely independent from my experience. It’s amazing how often the people paying for the review get the recommendation they are looking for….

I also suspect the review is more likely to be about structural issues and department performance, rather than a rigorous performance assessment of individuals. So unless Teague is doing something egregiously bad (eg. toxic relationships with others which is impacting negatively on team performance), I doubt the review findings will focus on him personally. A key finding may be that there has been a lack of performance monitoring and development of Teague and his assistants since the Head of Coaching Performance role was scrapped last year. I get the impression that Lloyd has had to juggle the responsibilities previously attached to that role and it has stretched him too thinly. Obviously just speculation on my part.

_________________
It's never as good as it looks and it's never as bad as it seems.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 5310 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 169, 170, 171, 172, 173, 174, 175 ... 266  Next

All times are UTC + 10 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 53 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group