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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:09 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:17 pm
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17th Premiership wrote:
kennyhunter wrote:
Yep Frank, Lyon basically said we’re soft and unaccountable.
He highlighted Doc’s attempted kick off the ground to sniggers from the panel.
Remember it during the game. And he’s a co-captain …


Yes, I clearly noticed this moment and commented on it after the match as symptomatic.
And then I thought about how if a Richmond or even an Essendon** player had done the same thing, it would have been seen as doing anything to keep the ball moving forward.
But the key point is that it was representative of the club and symbolic.

I do believe we have lifted our intensity and effort this year which is one of the reasons why we have not been blown away on the scoreboard.
BUT, we are still soft, take easy options and make dumb decisions both with and without the ball. Our effort is not being rewarded on the scoreboard.

Whilst I am curious to see how Teague would go with a fitter team, and with better assistants, I am starting to come around to the view that a better coach would get better results.
I'm thinking Ross Lyon would be the best fit. Others in the mix would be Clarkson, Don Pyke, maybe Chris Scott. Not sure how Clarkson's Blood bath history affects things - doesn't bother me that much but I get that it is a big thing for many. I actually think Chris Scott is an excellent coach. And Don Pyke was hobbled by that off-season crap.

If we keep Teague and go for a refresh of assistants... I'd be keen on Mark Williams, Justin Leppitsch. Others?


There is no doubt we are soft. It’s a cultural malaise.

Draftees should be required to understand there are non negotiables in football. Hardness at the ball is one of them.

Should be drilled into them before they play a game.

It may be too late if you are 5 years into your AFL career and you are still deficient.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:01 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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We are a laughing stock, I heard Luke Schuey on the radio yesterday say they knew they didn't need to be at their best to beat us last weekend.

Everyone knows we are soft mentally and physically

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:03 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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grrofunger wrote:
We are a laughing stock, I heard Luke Schuey on the radio yesterday say they knew they didn't need to be at their best to beat us last weekend.

Everyone knows we are soft mentally and physically


Schuey was so confident he didn't play

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:08 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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He is injured, also said something about not needing all their stars and weren't worried

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Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:27 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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He's right, but I still hope such comments are filed away for future reference.

Sadly, I don't think they will be.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:28 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Here's a video of the team song from win #4 a few weeks back.

https://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/9417 ... 1666746001

When compared to the song sung with gusto & enthusiasm by teams that give a shit (look at Lions, Cats, Dogs, Dees etc ) it's quite woeful. There's guys there not even opening their mouths (don't know the words). Some are laughing, some are serious, some don't want to be there. The play like they sing OR sing like they play. They're not in unison. I know it's only the club song but it's a good insight into things at Ikon Park.

Compare it to this from a team that thought they didn't even had to show up to win

https://www.westcoasteagles.com.au/vide ... 2967645001

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:54 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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Navy One wrote:
grrofunger wrote:
We are a laughing stock, I heard Luke Schuey on the radio yesterday say they knew they didn't need to be at their best to beat us last weekend.

Everyone knows we are soft mentally and physically


Schuey was so confident he didn't play



Is this true?

If we can't change the people, then change the people: coaches included.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:58 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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Navy One wrote:
Here's a video of the team song from win #4 a few weeks back.

https://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/9417 ... 1666746001

When compared to the song sung with gusto & enthusiasm by teams that give a shit (look at Lions, Cats, Dogs, Dees etc ) it's quite woeful. There's guys there not even opening their mouths (don't know the words). Some are laughing, some are serious, some don't want to be there. The play like they sing OR sing like they play. They're not in unison. I know it's only the club song but it's a good insight into things at Ikon Park.

Compare it to this from a team that thought they didn't even had to show up to win

https://www.westcoasteagles.com.au/vide ... 2967645001


I remember that rendition... not mentioning names because the picture tells the story...some lips don't move, some don't sing at all, timing, some look unhappy....WTF

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:02 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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bondiblue wrote:
Navy One wrote:
Here's a video of the team song from win #4 a few weeks back.

https://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/9417 ... 1666746001

When compared to the song sung with gusto & enthusiasm by teams that give a shit (look at Lions, Cats, Dogs, Dees etc ) it's quite woeful. There's guys there not even opening their mouths (don't know the words). Some are laughing, some are serious, some don't want to be there. The play like they sing OR sing like they play. They're not in unison. I know it's only the club song but it's a good insight into things at Ikon Park.

Compare it to this from a team that thought they didn't even had to show up to win

https://www.westcoasteagles.com.au/vide ... 2967645001


I remember that rendition... not mentioning names because the picture tells the story...some lips don't move, some don't sing at all, timing, some look unhappy....WTF


Agree Bondi ....... not a good look especially when you watch other (united) teams belt out their song.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:15 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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grrofunger wrote:
We are a laughing stock, I heard Luke Schuey on the radio yesterday say they knew they didn't need to be at their best to beat us last weekend.

Everyone knows we are soft mentally and physically


And rather than get pissed off and do something about it, we keep proving everyone right seemingly without a shit being given.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:22 pm 
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formerly Fevola

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If these guys would have any pride they would come out with some anger and hunger. But every week they are the same uncaring, scaredy cats. The irony is they are frustrated about not winning but are not willing to do something about it.

And I also include poor he deserves better Cripps like the media are saying. If he would pull his finger out and be at his best and lead, we would be in a better situation at the moment.

Right now, he just stands there looking dumbfounded when he loses the ball, and he thinks he is a speedster and tries to take players on. The amount of holding the ball against his this year is staggering.

I blame all of them. Except Walsh !!


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:23 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:48 pm
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Donstuie wrote:
grrofunger wrote:
We are a laughing stock, I heard Luke Schuey on the radio yesterday say they knew they didn't need to be at their best to beat us last weekend.

Everyone knows we are soft mentally and physically


And rather than get pissed off and do something about it, we keep proving everyone right seemingly without a shit being given.


Yep. We care more than the players do. Been that way for years.

Personally I’m ultra competitive and wouldn’t stand for that shit without putting up a fair dinkum fight. Where is our players competitive pride?

Not only do we let it continue to happen again and again but we do it without giving a yelp. Infuriates me. Coaches don’t hold any one to account either.

Sick of being a laughing stock. That’s why I’m hoping this review will be as brutal as required. Enough is enough.

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Last edited by MPH78 on Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:49 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:30 pm
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Navy One wrote:
Here's a video of the team song from win #4 a few weeks back.

https://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/9417 ... 1666746001

When compared to the song sung with gusto & enthusiasm by teams that give a shit (look at Lions, Cats, Dogs, Dees etc ) it's quite woeful. There's guys there not even opening their mouths (don't know the words). Some are laughing, some are serious, some don't want to be there. The play like they sing OR sing like they play. They're not in unison. I know it's only the club song but it's a good insight into things at Ikon Park.



Had a couple of looks... That's terrible from some of our 'senior players' (guess who). For god sake we don't win very often! A broken club in so many ways.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:16 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Who is the bloke next to Saad? On his left?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:17 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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rhino27 wrote:
Who is the bloke next to Saad? On his left?


Honey ..... I can forgive him

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:41 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Navy One wrote:
rhino27 wrote:
Who is the bloke next to Saad? On his left?


Honey ..... I can forgive him


Thanks. Surprising. Looks like he was at a funeral. I can forgive him too but contrast that with O-Mac who was medical sub and didn't play when we beat Freo. He was very excited.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:06 pm 
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Ken Hands

Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:31 pm
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Agree with all the above comments re how these players and this club seem to have no pride
We have opposition coaches, players and the media calling us soft (which is pretty much the biggest insult in footy) but no one does anything about it ever
How on earth does this happen unless these players and coaches have not one bit of pride in their own and the teams performance
I said in another thread we rebuilt the list but we never rebuilt the mentality of the players and the club back to a point where success is seen as everything
I hope this review is legitimate and calls out our soft culture for what it is so we can hopefully start weeding out those unwilling to do the things required for this club to finally achieve some semblance of success


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:36 pm 
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Trevor Keogh
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david31 wrote:
Agree with all the above comments re how these players and this club seem to have no pride
We have opposition coaches, players and the media calling us soft (which is pretty much the biggest insult in footy) but no one does anything about it ever
How on earth does this happen unless these players and coaches have not one bit of pride in their own and the teams performance
I said in another thread we rebuilt the list but we never rebuilt the mentality of the players and the club back to a point where success is seen as everything
I hope this review is legitimate and calls out our soft culture for what it is so we can hopefully start weeding out those unwilling to do the things required for this club to finally achieve some semblance of success


:clap:


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:55 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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I wonder how many on our list would even take a swing or even react beyond a meek "okay, that's your opinion" if you told them they were weak as piss onfield to their face...doesn't seem like there's a lot of finger pointing going on at Ikon.

Could it be the right time for Leading Teams?

https://thenewdaily.com.au/sport/sport-focus/2018/03/23/leading-teams/

Quote:
Luke Hodge remembers it like it was yesterday. The search for answers. The initial shock. The acknowledgement that change was needed.

In the tourist hotspot of Mooloolaba on Queensland’s Sunshine Coast, Hawthorn players were attempting to dissect the club’s 2012 AFL grand final loss to Sydney, a result that came just a year after an agonising three-point preliminary final defeat to Collingwood.

Hodge, as fiercely proud as he is competitive, said the “chokers tag” attached to the club was burning inside him.

Coach Alastair Clarkson was seeking answers, too, and called in ‘Leading Teams’, the football industry-popular organisation focused on leadership and high performance, for what co-founder Ray McLean called an “audit”.

McLean, who has worked with sporting teams across every major code in Australia, had spent time with the Hawks before.

But as he always does, he started with a series of what he calls “pivotal early questions”, asking players how they think they are viewed by opposition sides, how they want to be perceived and what behaviours are accepted by the group that shouldn’t be.


How do our players think they are viewed by opposition sides? Do they even have an idea and DTGAF?
How do they want to be perceived?
What behaviours are accepted by the group that shouldn't be?

We can all answer these questions clearly and extensively...can they?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:38 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Finally got around to watching "Making their mark" today, and FMD some of the sprays would sound inconceivable coming from our coach's mouth, and would have our players crying for their managers.

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