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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:47 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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carntheblues wrote:
I agree with Keoghs comments re: why do supporters continue to focus totally on the coach.


I don't think that is right at all.

Many people are critical of both the coach AND Silvagni's record.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:09 pm 
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Bert Deacon

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:23 am
Posts: 507
Effes wrote:
carntheblues wrote:
I agree with Keoghs comments re: why do supporters continue to focus totally on the coach.


I don't think that is right at all.

Many people are critical of both the coach AND Silvagni's record.

It’s definitely got to do with our development and coaching

We have too many come thru surely we can get some players going

Take cripps and Walsh out who are freaks

I was thinking about logically today , Teague is signed to 2022

We ain’t making the 8 this year , which means they have to extend Teague over the preseason or let him go

No way you can let him go into the last season without a extension

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:32 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Posts: 4885
Effes wrote:
carntheblues wrote:
I agree with Keoghs comments re: why do supporters continue to focus totally on the coach.


I don't think that is right at all.

Many people are critical of both the coach AND Silvagni's record.


Since March this year there has been 23 pages on Teague
In 2021 seven pages on List Management

Does that answer your question


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:57 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Posts: 13578
Location: threeohfivethree
keogh wrote:
Effes wrote:
carntheblues wrote:
I agree with Keoghs comments re: why do supporters continue to focus totally on the coach.


I don't think that is right at all.

Many people are critical of both the coach AND Silvagni's record.


Since March this year there has been 23 pages on Teague
In 2021 seven pages on List Management

Does that answer your question


The fetishes of a bunch of half wits is strong evidence indeed!

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“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

H.L.Mencken (1920)


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:57 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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That sounds even better in a Scottish accent.

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“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

H.L.Mencken (1920)


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:08 pm 
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Serge Silvagni
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Keogh’s questions would sound and look better with question marks :thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:28 pm 
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John Nicholls
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oops

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http://dannybfahey.blogspot.com.au/


Last edited by dannyboy on Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:28 pm 
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John Nicholls
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GWS wrote:
That sounds even better in a Scottish accent.
:grin:

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Title: Catalina
Author: Danny Fahey
Publisher: Dragonfall Press (http://www.dragonfallpress.com)
http://dannybfahey.blogspot.com.au/


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:22 pm 
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Bert Deacon

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:23 am
Posts: 507
GWS wrote:
keogh wrote:
Effes wrote:
carntheblues wrote:
I agree with Keoghs comments re: why do supporters continue to focus totally on the coach.


I don't think that is right at all.

Many people are critical of both the coach AND Silvagni's record.


Since March this year there has been 23 pages on Teague
In 2021 seven pages on List Management

Does that answer your question


The fetishes of a bunch of half wits is strong evidence indeed!


Thank you for intelligence Input and you are probably satisfied with the success Carlton has has over the last 20 years and shows your level of intelligence

Add value, instead of trying to be tough keyboard warrior ...

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:32 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:17 am
Posts: 13578
Location: threeohfivethree
azzablue wrote:
GWS wrote:
keogh wrote:
Effes wrote:
carntheblues wrote:
I agree with Keoghs comments re: why do supporters continue to focus totally on the coach.


I don't think that is right at all.

Many people are critical of both the coach AND Silvagni's record.


Since March this year there has been 23 pages on Teague
In 2021 seven pages on List Management

Does that answer your question


The fetishes of a bunch of half wits is strong evidence indeed!


Thank you for intelligence Input and you are probably satisfied with the success Carlton has has over the last 20 years and shows your level of intelligence

Add value, instead of trying to be tough keyboard warrior ...


No doubt your input will be useful. :lol:

_________________
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

H.L.Mencken (1920)


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:03 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 1491
There are a lot of things we need to get better at.
And there are some regrets, of which it only helps to learn from but no point crying about it (e.g. Recruiting, drafting... I for one am wondering whether we really had a good appreciation of what we were giving up for Saad with pick 8 - Cox or Perkins...).

Key amongst this list is culture, intensity, skills, development etc...

HOWEVER, just remember Melbourne was arguably underperforming even more than we are just last year. Simon Goodwin was under more pressure than Teague is now. Ratten, by contrast was flying high. Not much has changed at either club, yet the teams' performances have turned around. Richmond also was perennially underperforming pre-2017, and looked like they needed to work on all of what we do now. Then suddenly, they worked it out and ....bang! The Bulldogs have been struggling since they popped up for a flag. Imagine how frustrating that has been for Bulldogs supporters, right when they should be in their prime! Finally, they've turned it around.

Darcy Parish finally coming good after years of not being quite good enough/not played in the right position. We should be absolutely sure about Paddy Dow before we stamp his papers...


I am ok with Teague maintaining his cool at this point, certainly in front of the cameras.
What happens if we get flogged?? Where does he go if things get worse and he has already lost the plot over a 3 goal defeat??
West Coast got smashed by 97 points so Simpson rightly was much stronger in his language. Expectations on them are much higher than us, and their performance was MUCH worse. StK were also absolutely horrible when they lost by 75pts to Essendon*!! And then again by over 12 goals to the Tigers. So, of course, Ratten went harder at his press conference.

We need to work on lots of things but let's not throw out the baby with the bath water!


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:47 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:00 pm
Posts: 22602
Location: Kaloyasena
17th Premiership wrote:
There are a lot of things we need to get better at.
And there are some regrets, of which it only helps to learn from but no point crying about it (e.g. Recruiting, drafting... I for one am wondering whether we really had a good appreciation of what we were giving up for Saad with pick 8 - Cox or Perkins...).

Key amongst this list is culture, intensity, skills, development etc...

HOWEVER, just remember Melbourne was arguably underperforming even more than we are just last year. Simon Goodwin was under more pressure than Teague is now. Ratten, by contrast was flying high. Not much has changed at either club, yet the teams' performances have turned around. Richmond also was perennially underperforming pre-2017, and looked like they needed to work on all of what we do now. Then suddenly, they worked it out and ....bang! The Bulldogs have been struggling since they popped up for a flag. Imagine how frustrating that has been for Bulldogs supporters, right when they should be in their prime! Finally, they've turned it around.

Darcy Parish finally coming good after years of not being quite good enough/not played in the right position. We should be absolutely sure about Paddy Dow before we stamp his papers...


I am ok with Teague maintaining his cool at this point, certainly in front of the cameras.
What happens if we get flogged?? Where does he go if things get worse and he has already lost the plot over a 3 goal defeat??
West Coast got smashed by 97 points so Simpson rightly was much stronger in his language. Expectations on them are much higher than us, and their performance was MUCH worse. StK were also absolutely horrible when they lost by 75pts to Essendon**!! And then again by over 12 goals to the Tigers. So, of course, Ratten went harder at his press conference.

We need to work on lots of things but let's not throw out the baby with the bath water!



Parrish looks like he finally found his way to the Gym over the last pre-season unlike some of our 3rd/4th year players who have never seemed to set foot inside ours.


If only we had a baby in the bath water to actually throw out.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 1:45 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 15331
Location: Bondi Beach
azzablue wrote:
Effes wrote:
carntheblues wrote:
I agree with Keoghs comments re: why do supporters continue to focus totally on the coach.


I don't think that is right at all.

Many people are critical of both the coach AND Silvagni's record.

It’s definitely got to do with our development and coaching

We have too many come thru surely we can get some players going

Take cripps and Walsh out who are freaks

I was thinking about logically today , Teague is signed to 2022

We ain’t making the 8 this year , which means they have to extend Teague over the preseason or let him go

No way you can let him go into the last season without a extension


Not being facetious, but why not?

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Lets stick together. Don't believe everything Robinson, Landsberger and Cornes say about Carlton. Shock jocks.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:02 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
Posts: 16535
Location: North of the border
Rod Waddell wrote:
CK95 wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
They need to sack the shrink and bring in a team of new ones.



Very good point


Correct me if i'm wrong but was our shrink a victim of the COVID cuts? Is that correct that Andrew Russell has carriage for this task?



The Covid cuts might have been a blessing in disguise


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:14 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 15331
Location: Bondi Beach
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2021/04/27/the-tweaks-justin-leppitsch-would-make-to-carltons-defensive-game-plan/

Quote:
“I thought they competed really well (against Brisbane). I think one part of their game that can be improved is the defensive part of what they do,” Leppitsch told SEN’s Whateley.

“They’re very one-on-one. One thing that is different between Carlton and most other teams is that because they’re so one-on-one, they don’t have a spare behind the footy a lot.

“They don’t have a player deep behind the ball, they don’t really challenge the opposition.

“So you’ll see Adam Saad in a lot of one-on-one contests where realistically you want to use his offensive strengths of his run and his carry.


The game plan we thought would work with the new rules and the inclusion of Saad and Williams (now carrying injuries) needs a tweak.

All other teams have a man behind play.

There's a level of frustration, but no one is saying its not fixable. Are they?

The finger is pointed at several things:

Defensive strategy needs tweaking.
Old players are being gifted games to reach milestones (Murphy Levi and Edie)
Silvagni's mids haven't come on
Silvagni hasn't recruited any players with mongrel
Development
Line coaches in particular Barker as midfield coach
Teague on training wheels
Players not wearing the right boots
Players not protecting the leading lane
Turnovers (have lost within 5 goals)
Of course there's the Board argument
Playing injured players

and if the injured replaced the non performers we would be better

Charlie Curnow vs Casboult
Silvagni vs McGovern
De Koning vs Pittonet
Marchbank vs Plowman
Martin vs Murphy
Fisher vs Betts
Newman vs Cottrell
Philp vs Gibbons

Its all fixable.

Next 3 games (Druggies, Melb Doggies) we can win 1, but doubt we pinch another.
Puts us at 3 wins 6 losses.

We need a minimum 11 games in 2021 for finals.

Games to follow possible wins:

Hawks...W ....(DeKoning Newman return)
Sydney..W ... (Martin Silvagni return)
WCE.....W ... (maybe Carroll makes the grade)
GWS.....W ... (Murphy's 300th finally)
Adel.....W .... (Charlie Fisher Kemp return)
Freo.....W .... (Setterfield Dow Philp return...probably earlier
Geel
Coll......W
NM......W .... (Durdin Honey may be introduced)
StK......W
GCS.....W
Port
GWS.....W

I don't think we will win 15, but 11 is possible, and I believe probable if we can fix a few things

At the very least we finish with momentum with players returning from injury, and playing bottom 8 teams

Levi Murphy and Eddie will not be an issue next year. Fixed.
Free AGENT
Trade in a couple tough players
A couple developing players step up Kemp Carroll Dow Stocker DeKoning

Its all fixable. No way one could say its unlikely if the ducks line up, regardless of who is on the Board

The Empire will Strike back.

_________________
Lets stick together. Don't believe everything Robinson, Landsberger and Cornes say about Carlton. Shock jocks.


Last edited by bondiblue on Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 4:17 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:37 pm
Posts: 16693
Location: afl.virtualsports.com.au
https://twitter.com/Adrian_Poly/status/ ... 8696871936

Adrian Polykandrites
@Adrian_Poly
·
2m
Despite the impressive numbers of their key backs, Carlton are conceding a goal on 24.4% of opponents' inside-50s, which is fifth-worst. Melbourne No.1 at 17.1%, Saints 18th at 27.8

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 4:20 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 1491
bondiblue wrote:
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2021/04/27/the-tweaks-justin-leppitsch-would-make-to-carltons-defensive-game-plan/

Quote:
“I thought they competed really well (against Brisbane). I think one part of their game that can be improved is the defensive part of what they do,” Leppitsch told SEN’s Whateley.

“They’re very one-on-one. One thing that is different between Carlton and most other teams is that because they’re so one-on-one, they don’t have a spare behind the footy a lot.

“They don’t have a player deep behind the ball, they don’t really challenge the opposition.

“So you’ll see Adam Saad in a lot of one-on-one contests where realistically you want to use his offensive strengths of his run and his carry.


The game plan we thought would work with the new rules and the inclusion of Saad and Williams (now carrying injuries) needs a tweak.

All other teams have a man behind play.

There's a level of frustration, but no one is saying its not fixable. Are they?

The finger is pointed at several things:

Defensive strategy needs tweaking.
Old players are being gifted games to reach milestones (Murphy Levi and Edie)
Silvagni's mids haven't come on
Silvagni hasn't recruited any players with mongrel
Development
Teague on training wheels
Players not wearing the right boots
Players not protecting the leading lane
Turnovers (have lost within 5 goals)
Of course there's the Board argument
Playing injured players

and if the injured replaced the non performers we would be better

Charlie Curnow vs Casboult
Silvagni vs McGovern
De Koning vs Pittonet
Marchbank vs Plowman
Martin vs Murphy
Fisher vs Betts
Newman vs Cottrell
Philp vs Gibbons

Its all fixable.

Next 3 games (Druggies, Melb Doggies) we can win 1, but doubt we pinch another.
Puts us at 3 wins 6 losses.

We need a minimum 11 games in 2021 for finals.

Games to follow possible wins:

Hawks...W ....(DeKoning Newman return)
Sydney..W ... (Martin Silvagni return)
WCE.....W ... (maybe Carroll makes the grade)
GWS.....W ... (Murphy's 300th finally)
Adel.....W .... (Charlie Fisher Kemp return)
Freo.....W .... (Setterfield Dow Philp return...probably earlier
Geel
Coll......W
NM......W .... (Durdin Honey may be introduced)
StK......W
GCS.....W
Port
GWS.....W

I don't think we will win 15, but 11 is possible, and I believe probable if we can fix a few things

At the very least we finish with momentum with players returning from injury, and playing bottom 8 teams

Levi Murphy and Eddie will not be an issue next year. Fixed.
Free AGENT
Trade in a couple tough players
A couple developing players step up Kemp Carroll Dow Stocker DeKoning

Its all fixable. No way one could say its unlikely if the ducks line up, regardless of who is on the Board

The Empire will Strike back.


I like this. We do have problems. And no-one is/should be sugar coating them. However, we are far from a basket case.
And re a free agent, the match this week against the Bombers may have an influence on our chances to get Zach Merrett at the end of the year... :-)


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 4:37 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:38 pm
Posts: 6097
The tweak I would be doing if we continually spiral doen is hoping that Pies bottom out this season they get Bucks to quit we sign him up to coach next year


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 4:56 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
Posts: 16535
Location: North of the border
keogh wrote:
Effes wrote:
carntheblues wrote:
I agree with Keoghs comments re: why do supporters continue to focus totally on the coach.


I don't think that is right at all.

Many people are critical of both the coach AND Silvagni's record.


Since March this year there has been 23 pages on Teague
In 2021 seven pages on List Management

Does that answer your question


Yes people have come to the realisation that the List is not the problem so no need to talk about it

You dont get 20 years of picks wrong and we have had five no 1 draft picks and endless first round picks

It is abundantly clear to most people in it is not list management


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:20 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 15331
Location: Bondi Beach
17th Premiership wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2021/04/27/the-tweaks-justin-leppitsch-would-make-to-carltons-defensive-game-plan/

Quote:
“I thought they competed really well (against Brisbane). I think one part of their game that can be improved is the defensive part of what they do,” Leppitsch told SEN’s Whateley.

“They’re very one-on-one. One thing that is different between Carlton and most other teams is that because they’re so one-on-one, they don’t have a spare behind the footy a lot.

“They don’t have a player deep behind the ball, they don’t really challenge the opposition.

“So you’ll see Adam Saad in a lot of one-on-one contests where realistically you want to use his offensive strengths of his run and his carry.


The game plan we thought would work with the new rules and the inclusion of Saad and Williams (now carrying injuries) needs a tweak.

All other teams have a man behind play.

There's a level of frustration, but no one is saying its not fixable. Are they?

The finger is pointed at several things:

Defensive strategy needs tweaking.
Old players are being gifted games to reach milestones (Murphy Levi and Edie)
Silvagni's mids haven't come on
Silvagni hasn't recruited any players with mongrel
Development
Teague on training wheels
Players not wearing the right boots
Players not protecting the leading lane
Turnovers (have lost within 5 goals)
Of course there's the Board argument
Playing injured players

and if the injured replaced the non performers we would be better

Charlie Curnow vs Casboult
Silvagni vs McGovern
De Koning vs Pittonet
Marchbank vs Plowman
Martin vs Murphy
Fisher vs Betts
Newman vs Cottrell
Philp vs Gibbons

Its all fixable.

Next 3 games (Druggies, Melb Doggies) we can win 1, but doubt we pinch another.
Puts us at 3 wins 6 losses.

We need a minimum 11 games in 2021 for finals.

Games to follow possible wins:

Hawks...W ....(DeKoning Newman return)
Sydney..W ... (Martin Silvagni return)
WCE.....W ... (maybe Carroll makes the grade)
GWS.....W ... (Murphy's 300th finally)
Adel.....W .... (Charlie Fisher Kemp return)
Freo.....W .... (Setterfield Dow Philp return...probably earlier
Geel
Coll......W
NM......W .... (Durdin Honey may be introduced)
StK......W
GCS.....W
Port
GWS.....W

I don't think we will win 15, but 11 is possible, and I believe probable if we can fix a few things

At the very least we finish with momentum with players returning from injury, and playing bottom 8 teams

Levi Murphy and Eddie will not be an issue next year. Fixed.
Free AGENT
Trade in a couple tough players
A couple developing players step up Kemp Carroll Dow Stocker DeKoning

Its all fixable. No way one could say its unlikely if the ducks line up, regardless of who is on the Board

The Empire will Strike back.


I like this. We do have problems. And no-one is/should be sugar coating them. However, we are far from a basket case.
And re a free agent, the match this week against the Bombers may have an influence on our chances to get Zach Merrett at the end of the year... :-)


That's the ticket 17th

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Lets stick together. Don't believe everything Robinson, Landsberger and Cornes say about Carlton. Shock jocks.


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