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 Post subject: Re: Alastair Clarkson
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:06 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 6:45 pm
Posts: 1711
Blue Vain wrote:
deano35 wrote:
Nope no good this 4 time Premiership coach.
Most have been lucky 4 times over.
Currently running rings around the Lions with apparently a wooden spoon team.
Just imagine after taking your rose coloured glasses off what this modern day Goliath of Coaching could do with our list.
Unbelievable some of you in this forum.


So he has a team that's capable of running rings around the Lions and they're second last?
It works both ways, doesn't it?


So your telling me you had the Hawks finishing in the 8 ????
I had them bottom 4 BUT he still manages to knock off a top 6 team.
How's our master coach gone against any top 6 team???
How's our master coach gone this season when most predicted we'd improve and at least be playing finals.


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 Post subject: Re: Alastair Clarkson
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:51 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:23 am
Posts: 1566
deano35 wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
deano35 wrote:
Nope no good this 4 time Premiership coach.
Most have been lucky 4 times over.
Currently running rings around the Lions with apparently a wooden spoon team.
Just imagine after taking your rose coloured glasses off what this modern day Goliath of Coaching could do with our list.
Unbelievable some of you in this forum.


So he has a team that's capable of running rings around the Lions and they're second last?
It works both ways, doesn't it?


So your telling me you had the Hawks finishing in the 8 ????
I had them bottom 4 BUT he still manages to knock off a top 6 team.
How's our master coach gone against any top 6 team???
How's our master coach gone this season when most predicted we'd improve and at least be playing finals.

My tip he is off to the Gold Coast to save the afl embarrassment!!

Lyon or Brad Scott to take over .. wildcard Simpson ( things are getting weird at eagles )

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 Post subject: Re: Alastair Clarkson
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 7:36 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17518
deano35 wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
deano35 wrote:
Nope no good this 4 time Premiership coach.
Most have been lucky 4 times over.
Currently running rings around the Lions with apparently a wooden spoon team.
Just imagine after taking your rose coloured glasses off what this modern day Goliath of Coaching could do with our list.
Unbelievable some of you in this forum.


So he has a team that's capable of running rings around the Lions and they're second last?
It works both ways, doesn't it?


So your telling me you had the Hawks finishing in the 8 ????
I had them bottom 4 BUT he still manages to knock off a top 6 team.
How's our master coach gone against any top 6 team???
How's our master coach gone this season when most predicted we'd improve and at least be playing finals.


Nah, I had Hawks bottom 6 but I don't rate coach influence as much as you appear to. It's just my opinion.
Attitude and talent are the determining factor in most results as far as I'm concerned.

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 Post subject: Alastair Clarkson
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:03 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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 Post subject: Re: Alastair Clarkson
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:12 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22935
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Is Clarko really available at the end of the season? :sly:

Great effort vs Flag contender today.
Looked like the other way around.

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 Post subject: Re: Alastair Clarkson
PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:14 am 
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John James
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Haven't read most of the posts, sorry. Just want to express my fear that, regardless of the occasional genius effort here and there while his tenure peters out, and even if he's one of the greatest coaches of all time, he would be yet another great coach brought to Carlton too late in his career on big coin and acrimoniously leaving an ever drifting club with a bag of cash we need directed elsewhere. Just like all great players, all great coaches fade. It is entirely possible that he is well past the prime that we would be supposedly be recruiting him for. Teague might not be the answer, but if he really has to go, which I'm not entirely convinced of yet (but pretty bloody close), is our club still entirely incapable of identifying emerging talent? Is there no one else out there a little fresher and up for it, as Clarko, Malthouse and Pagan once were? Buyer beware.

And that's not even taking into consideration my dislike for the sniping, whining hypocrite, whose history I would conveniently forget once he walks through the door, and remember again once he's shown it.

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 Post subject: Re: Alastair Clarkson
PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:59 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 22935
Location: Bondi Beach
Fagan said after his 5th placed Lions went down the 17th placed Hawks:

Quote:
“I hope he is not lost to footy. He is a brilliant coach and his team played for him today.


I wish Players played for Teague every week. They seemed to do so last week, or were embarrassed by their publicly exposed individual and team performances for the umteenth time this year.

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 Post subject: Re: Alastair Clarkson
PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:13 am 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
Posts: 3450
bondiblue wrote:
Fagan said after his 5th placed Lions went down the 17th placed Hawks:

Quote:
“I hope he is not lost to footy. He is a brilliant coach and his team played for him today.


I wish Players played for Teague every week. They seemed to do so last week, or were embarrassed by their publicly exposed individual and team performances for the umteenth time this year.


Sums up my view as to why DT is NOT the right coach going forward

I cannot trust the club to go to another year adding to those "umpteenth" performances...nobody has a crystal ball but that's the assessment I've made...hell I have concerns we'll either lose or provide an uninspiring win against GC

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 Post subject: Re: Alastair Clarkson
PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:18 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Posts: 1685
Blue Vain wrote:
Attitude and talent are the determining factor in most results as far as I'm concerned.


This question may read as snarky but I mean it genuinely; how does a team attain a consistent, competitive, hardworking attitude if not through competent and compatible off-field staff?

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 Post subject: Re: Alastair Clarkson
PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:39 am 
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Bert Deacon
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Posts: 534
No doubt competent and compatible off-field staff are where it starts, but surely a consistent, competitive, hardworking attitude is largely player driven?


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 Post subject: Re: Alastair Clarkson
PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:10 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17518
fraser murphy wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Attitude and talent are the determining factor in most results as far as I'm concerned.


This question may read as snarky but I mean it genuinely; how does a team attain a consistent, competitive, hardworking attitude if not through competent and compatible off-field staff?


Fair question.

Clarkson is probably more experienced and knowledgeable than he was during their premiership years. Yet his team is sitting 17th. What's the difference? Attitude and talent of on field personnel.
Just my opinion.

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 Post subject: Alastair Clarkson
PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:17 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:14 pm
Posts: 5990
Location: Melbourne
deano35 wrote:
jim wrote:
Adam Chatfield wrote:
deano35 wrote:
This is TOTALLY different to Pagan and Malthouse TOTALLY.
Clarkson is the best coach of the modern era if not ever.
He is clearly still at the top of his game and as sharp as any.
If anyone else was coaching Hawthorn they wouldn't have won a game , they are worse then North.
Get Clarkson coz David is slowly killing our club and our kids.

Pagan and Madhouse were washed up and had other agenda's.


Pagan - shit sandwich he was given, not sure who’d have done well in same situation. Hindsight we’d been better holding our nerve and keeping Brittain.

Malthouse - Diabolical, came into a still relatively talented list which he blew up with no compensation for most of the good players we let go. Hindsight we’d have been better to stick with Ratten.

Now currently, list is healthier longer term looking and club more stable than either 2002 or 2012, so getting an established coach in they should have more to build with.

If we get Clarko I’d back him in, but prefer with stick with Teague.


No good rationalising. Unless the culture changes the coach is dead man walking from the start. Initial sugar hit then by the 3rd year the players are doing the same thing. With Malthouse it was the 3rd year where we stopped working, 3rd year with Bolton, and 3rd year again. Only thing is the win/loss ratio has been much better under Teague than those other two. sort the root of the problem otherwise we just embarrass another coach.

We put out the same effort in 2012 against a depleted Gold Coast when a win would get us into the 8. Cost Ratten his job, something we have regretted ever since. Ratten had the ability to get something out of sides with shit cultures, 3 finals at Carlton, one at St.Kilda, but it gets them in the end.


How was Hawthorn's culture prior to Clarkson???
How was Richmond's culture prior to Hardwick????
CULTURE is setup and is keeped Accountable by the head COACH.

David Teague has had numerous chances in 2 years to change our CULTURE but is too nice and very friendly coz that's the culture Teague has stamped on this footy club.
He's had 2 years to fix these 5 goal run ons.
He's had 2 years to fix this deplorable defensive structure.
Players laughing after they've had 4, 5 ,6 goals kicked on them.
Senior players recalled after long lay off's with no form or fitness.
Talented kids working there arse off into form yet overlooked time and time again.
Playing SENIOR players injured ahead of fully fit kids.

Ask yourself would Ckarkson accept what happened during our rd2 game ????
Do you think Clarkson would accept what happened today coz I can put my house on the fact that not 1 senior player will be dropped but I bet they'll hang Williamson, Cottrell, Owies or probably SPS


Hawks were rubbish for clarkos first 2 years, and had a lot more heavy losses than we’ve experienced under Teague.

I don’t think Teague is the messiah but I don’t think Clarko or any coach is. Regardless of which, it takes time.


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 Post subject: Re: Alastair Clarkson
PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:09 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2016 1:04 pm
Posts: 1102
Location: Brisbane
Adam Chatfield wrote:
deano35 wrote:
jim wrote:
Adam Chatfield wrote:
deano35 wrote:
This is TOTALLY different to Pagan and Malthouse TOTALLY.
Clarkson is the best coach of the modern era if not ever.
He is clearly still at the top of his game and as sharp as any.
If anyone else was coaching Hawthorn they wouldn't have won a game , they are worse then North.
Get Clarkson coz David is slowly killing our club and our kids.

Pagan and Madhouse were washed up and had other agenda's.


Pagan - shit sandwich he was given, not sure who’d have done well in same situation. Hindsight we’d been better holding our nerve and keeping Brittain.

Malthouse - Diabolical, came into a still relatively talented list which he blew up with no compensation for most of the good players we let go. Hindsight we’d have been better to stick with Ratten.

Now currently, list is healthier longer term looking and club more stable than either 2002 or 2012, so getting an established coach in they should have more to build with.

If we get Clarko I’d back him in, but prefer with stick with Teague.


No good rationalising. Unless the culture changes the coach is dead man walking from the start. Initial sugar hit then by the 3rd year the players are doing the same thing. With Malthouse it was the 3rd year where we stopped working, 3rd year with Bolton, and 3rd year again. Only thing is the win/loss ratio has been much better under Teague than those other two. sort the root of the problem otherwise we just embarrass another coach.

We put out the same effort in 2012 against a depleted Gold Coast when a win would get us into the 8. Cost Ratten his job, something we have regretted ever since. Ratten had the ability to get something out of sides with shit cultures, 3 finals at Carlton, one at St.Kilda, but it gets them in the end.


How was Hawthorn's culture prior to Clarkson???
How was Richmond's culture prior to Hardwick????
CULTURE is setup and is keeped Accountable by the head COACH.

David Teague has had numerous chances in 2 years to change our CULTURE but is too nice and very friendly coz that's the culture Teague has stamped on this footy club.
He's had 2 years to fix these 5 goal run ons.
He's had 2 years to fix this deplorable defensive structure.
Players laughing after they've had 4, 5 ,6 goals kicked on them.
Senior players recalled after long lay off's with no form or fitness.
Talented kids working there arse off into form yet overlooked time and time again.
Playing SENIOR players injured ahead of fully fit kids.

Ask yourself would Ckarkson accept what happened during our rd2 game ????
Do you think Clarkson would accept what happened today coz I can put my house on the fact that not 1 senior player will be dropped but I bet they'll hang Williamson, Cottrell, Owies or probably SPS


Hawks were rubbish for clarkos first 2 years, and had a lot more heavy losses than we’ve experienced under Teague.

I don’t think Teague is the messiah but I don’t think Clarko or any coach is. Regardless of which, it takes time.
And talent


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 Post subject: Re: Alastair Clarkson
PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:41 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 4435
Fenwick Snap wrote:
Haven't read most of the posts, sorry. Just want to express my fear that, regardless of the occasional genius effort here and there while his tenure peters out, and even if he's one of the greatest coaches of all time, he would be yet another great coach brought to Carlton too late in his career on big coin and acrimoniously leaving an ever drifting club with a bag of cash we need directed elsewhere. Just like all great players, all great coaches fade. It is entirely possible that he is well past the prime that we would be supposedly be recruiting him for. Teague might not be the answer, but if he really has to go, which I'm not entirely convinced of yet (but pretty bloody close), is our club still entirely incapable of identifying emerging talent? Is there no one else out there a little fresher and up for it, as Clarko, Malthouse and Pagan once were? Buyer beware.

And that's not even taking into consideration my dislike for the sniping, whining hypocrite, whose history I would conveniently forget once he walks through the door, and remember again once he's shown it.


I think part of the key to not falling for the same mistake we made with Pagan and Malthouse, is ensuring if we do interview Clarkson he does a full presentation. We need to go through the process irrespective of who we re interviewing.

I think the other thing you need to bear in mind is Pagan inherited the worst list at a time when we lost our early picks for two years, and Mick didn't exactly inherit a premiership quality list albeit it was better.

Clarkson, if he comes to Carlton, will inherit a fine list. Already we have potentially 3 AAs on the list, and a fit Cripps and Curnow in 2022 just adds to the elite talent on the list.


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 Post subject: Re: Alastair Clarkson
PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:24 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:55 pm
Posts: 5465
Paddycripps wrote:
Fenwick Snap wrote:
Haven't read most of the posts, sorry. Just want to express my fear that, regardless of the occasional genius effort here and there while his tenure peters out, and even if he's one of the greatest coaches of all time, he would be yet another great coach brought to Carlton too late in his career on big coin and acrimoniously leaving an ever drifting club with a bag of cash we need directed elsewhere. Just like all great players, all great coaches fade. It is entirely possible that he is well past the prime that we would be supposedly be recruiting him for. Teague might not be the answer, but if he really has to go, which I'm not entirely convinced of yet (but pretty bloody close), is our club still entirely incapable of identifying emerging talent? Is there no one else out there a little fresher and up for it, as Clarko, Malthouse and Pagan once were? Buyer beware.

And that's not even taking into consideration my dislike for the sniping, whining hypocrite, whose history I would conveniently forget once he walks through the door, and remember again once he's shown it.


I think part of the key to not falling for the same mistake we made with Pagan and Malthouse, is ensuring if we do interview Clarkson he does a full presentation. We need to go through the process irrespective of who we re interviewing.

I think the other thing you need to bear in mind is Pagan inherited the worst list at a time when we lost our early picks for two years, and Mick didn't exactly inherit a premiership quality list albeit it was better.

Clarkson, if he comes to Carlton, will inherit a fine list. Already we have potentially 3 AAs on the list, and a fit Cripps and Curnow in 2022 just adds to the elite talent on the list.

The most important part of this, is that his key strength is having good systems not just for the elite talent, but the B grade talent on the bottom of the list and having defined roles for them so you don't miss players when they're injured.
Interesting times ahead.
You have to think, did he audition for the Carlton job on the weekend?


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 Post subject: Re: Alastair Clarkson
PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:27 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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That depends, did he instruct his players to have a snooze for 20 minute periods, not lay tackles, miss easy targets, & never win more than 2 on the trot? :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Alastair Clarkson
PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:34 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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:lol:
I'm sure we can help him with that.


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 Post subject: Re: Alastair Clarkson
PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:40 am 
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John Nicholls
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Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:06 pm
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This parasite so much as puts his indicator on down Royal Parade I'm getting the scissors and my membership card out.

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 Post subject: Re: Alastair Clarkson
PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:15 am 
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Adrian Gallagher

Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:56 pm
Posts: 84
robertbb wrote:
This parasite so much as puts his indicator on down Royal Parade I'm getting the scissors and my membership card out.


+1


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 Post subject: Re: Alastair Clarkson
PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:19 am 
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Rod Ashman
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Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:05 pm
Posts: 2450
I would see his appointment as just another case of "messiah" complex. My preference is for Teague to finish his current contract next year and then the club can make the assessment on the coach.


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