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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:22 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:32 pm
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Are we too defensively minded as a team?

This has been on my mind for a little while now, since the Adelaide debacle. In that game, Ratten acknowledged during the post-mortem that HE got it wrong, and had his players playing up the ground too much (a defensive set-up, as I read it).

And again last weekend, in the first half, it was clear for all to see the decision to put arguably our premier playmaker (Gibbs) in a purely defensive role on Goodes, was a poor strategic move. It was only after half time when Gibbs was given midfield freedom, that the Blues started to get their act together. (note : the decision to put Gibbs on Goodes, with Thornton there as well, seems to be a product of Gibbs doing well on Goodes in 08, but we recall in that game Goodes was unfit).

The second Essendon* game, and to an extent the first Essendon* game too, are other examples. In these games, and the Adelaide and Sydney game (indeed both Sydney games now that I come to think of it), I felt that our players were too reactionary, and as a result the opposition won the contested ball contests time and time again. Last weekend Sydney had almost twice as many disposals as us in the first half.

My question is, is Ratten being too defensive with his set-ups? Players like Grigg and Russell seem to often play defensive midfield roles, and Houlihan and Carrazzo often play defensive HFF roles, and then there’s Joseph who tags if he’s not playing in the BP. And reiterating the earlier point, sometimes Gibbs plays defensive roles too.

Are too many of our flankers and midfielders too often being asked to play defensive roles? And is this why on numerous occasions this year we seem to be second to the ball so often? (ie: because our players are man watching, instead of being proactive and attacking the ball?).

Is this a product of Ratten playing many of his final years under Brittain, a coach who was big on putting the squeeze on the opposition, from my recollection anyhow?

I believe our best footy this year has been played when we have been proactive and attacking. See the demolition of the Dogs, in what was a free running performance by the Blues (granted the Dogs are free wheelers), and the second half last weekend, when Ratten was less defensively minded with his set-ups.

I understand we need to strike a balance, but have we maybe been a bit too defensively minded at times this year?

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:28 pm 
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Wayne Johnston
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I'm pretty sure one of Ratts' main focuses when he got the job was to reduce the 'score against' statistic of the Pagan era.
He certainly succeded in doing that, but hopefully not to the detriment of the players natural attacking instincts and flair.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:35 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:51 am
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I think if you look at Ross Lyon the first thing he tried to implement was that defensive mindset into the Saints and it took the players a while to grasp it. Look at them now.
It's just another work in orgress.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:59 pm 
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Bob Chitty
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Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:02 am
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Virgin Blue wrote:
Are we too defensively minded as a team?

This has been on my mind for a little while now, since the Adelaide debacle. In that game, Ratten acknowledged during the post-mortem that HE got it wrong, and had his players playing up the ground too much (a defensive set-up, as I read it).

And again last weekend, in the first half, it was clear for all to see the decision to put arguably our premier playmaker (Gibbs) in a purely defensive role on Goodes, was a poor strategic move. It was only after half time when Gibbs was given midfield freedom, that the Blues started to get their act together. (note : the decision to put Gibbs on Goodes, with Thornton there as well, seems to be a product of Gibbs doing well on Goodes in 08, but we recall in that game Goodes was unfit).

The second Essendon* game, and to an extent the first Essendon* game too, are other examples. In these games, and the Adelaide and Sydney game (indeed both Sydney games now that I come to think of it), I felt that our players were too reactionary, and as a result the opposition won the contested ball contests time and time again. Last weekend Sydney had almost twice as many disposals as us in the first half.

My question is, is Ratten being too defensive with his set-ups? Players like Grigg and Russell seem to often play defensive midfield roles, and Houlihan and Carrazzo often play defensive HFF roles, and then there’s Joseph who tags if he’s not playing in the BP. And reiterating the earlier point, sometimes Gibbs plays defensive roles too.

Are too many of our flankers and midfielders too often being asked to play defensive roles? And is this why on numerous occasions this year we seem to be second to the ball so often? (ie: because our players are man watching, instead of being proactive and attacking the ball?).

Is this a product of Ratten playing many of his final years under Brittain, a coach who was big on putting the squeeze on the opposition, from my recollection anyhow?

I believe our best footy this year has been played when we have been proactive and attacking. See the demolition of the Dogs, in what was a free running performance by the Blues (granted the Dogs are free wheelers), and the second half last weekend, when Ratten was less defensively minded with his set-ups.

I understand we need to strike a balance, but have we maybe been a bit too defensively minded at times this year?



Excellent post VB those thoughts have crossed my mind many a time this year.

Only time will tell..........

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 4:06 pm 
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Bob Chitty
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I think our list is naturally attacking and one of the biggest complaints against the team has been that we have too many downhill skiers.

I know it may take time, and it is extremely frustrating because I am one of those who hate seeing us play defensive footy knowing how much better we play the attacking style, but I think for our overall development its a good thing.

Once we get the defensive aspects right, I think you will see Ratten implement some more aggressive strategies with the confidence that we can restrict the opposition when required.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 4:35 pm 
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Bert Deacon

Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:20 am
Posts: 548
I think at times we have been a bit too defensive, but as others have mentioned it is an area we needed to get better at.

It is also important to remember that we are still third in the AFL for points for, we have had a couple of shockers, but we have still been scoring well across the season as a whole.

It was to be expected that we would have a few teething problems along the way as our team was taught to be better at two way football.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 10:46 am 
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Bruce Doull
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budzy wrote:
I'm pretty sure one of Ratts' main focuses when he got the job was to reduce the 'score against' statistic of the Pagan era.
He certainly succeded in doing that, but hopefully not to the detriment of the players natural attacking instincts and flair.

I'm more worried about it being to the detriment of the development of their kicking skills personally.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:19 pm 
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Horrie Clover
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Virgin Blue wrote:
And again last weekend, in the first half, it was clear for all to see the decision to put arguably our premier playmaker (Gibbs) in a purely defensive role on Goodes, was a poor strategic move. It was only after half time when Gibbs was given midfield freedom, that the Blues started to get their act together. (note : the decision to put Gibbs on Goodes, with Thornton there as well, seems to be a product of Gibbs doing well on Goodes in 08, but we recall in that game Goodes was unfit).


Goodes was obviously fit enough to play the game, I think the difference between last year and this year, was Roos recognised Goodes was going to kill Gibbs in the air, thus put him at CHF. Last year they were on each other as wingers/midfielders, which suited Gibbs style more.

I agree with the consensus that the defensive area is what needed improvement the most, and therefore it only makes sense Ratten looks to improve this area (in terms of players recognising their defensive duties as well as Ratten improving is ability to give the right instructions), even if it means losing games such as the Adelaide game.

As much as it pains me, look at St Kilda last year. Were seen as over defensive and cautious. In reality all Lyon was doing was making sure the balance of their game was correct as they have some talented players going forward. I think during the year we have already seen a lot of defensive improvement in our midfield, which is very important to us, because I still think our key defensive posts are our vulnerability until Jamieson/Austin/Bower develop into the quality of player we don't currently have at the back.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:41 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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He seems to be spooked a little and last week was another example of going too defensive and giving up the ascendency through the middle.
This week he simply needs to release Gibbs into the middle, let other teams worry about him instead of making him the tagger.
If the filth leave Maxwell as a loose man in defence, man him up! Don't simply leave a player loose in our 50 as a response. And if he continues to peel off to get in Fevs space, go through his man. Let's start getting smart in attack and making this the best form of defence.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:45 pm 
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Adrian Gallagher

Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:43 pm
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Hardest aspect of the game to learn!! Will frustrate until they get it right, ala Hawthorn, Saints, and the cats!!

Take the losses now (if they eventuate due to the poor balance) whilst we are still developing, it will come together as the players mature (football wise) together.

Go Blues!!!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:18 pm 
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Bruce Comben

Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 9:58 am
Posts: 30
Location: Melbourne
I don't believe we are too defensively minded.

Its very common to see opposition teams bring the ball into their forward 50m and kick to genuine one-on-one contests. We leave the opposition's forward lines too open at times. The first Freo game springs to mind.

In most of our forward entries, we are kicking to Fev who has at least 2 direct opponents. (I appreciate this is off the topic, but it does contrast what other teams are doing).

Very few teams will let us attack like the Dogs do.


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