In today's Herald, (can't find the refernce on the web), Fev makes an impassioned defence of Pagan, claiming all players are behind him, and that we all (supporters included) should lay off - compared it to the talk last year asking for malthouses head.

The Age notes it here:Blues make like Socceroos

_________________
"Two roads diverged in a wood,
and I,
I took the one less travelled by,
and that has made all the difference."

Robert Frost

Its called "chook feeding"..

Thats why you cant believe anything in the paper....

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

http://foxsports.news.com.au/story/0,8659,19237693-23211,00.html

Bit more "quoting" of the Fev ......

Just a rehash of http://carltonfc.com.au/default.asp?pg= ... eid=268011

So when the players come out and say they are 100% behind the coach, they are disappointed at fans calling for his head and that the coach communicates well with them, its all a media beat up and smokescreen for a bit of publicity.

But when some anonymous peanut on a web forum calls for the coaches head and wants to start a petition, its all high 5's and backslapping because he is on the money???

_________________
"Who discovered we could get milk from cows, and what did he think he was doing at the time?" Billy Connolly

Fevola said that in his interview. He said it on behalf of the players as a comment about the group, not just as an individual, in fact his words were:



link is:

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/common/story_page/0,8033,19238002%255E20322,00.html

Additionally, Nick Stevens also supported Dennis during an interview last week, his words were:



and:



the link is:

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/common/story_page/0,8033,19200933%255E19762,00.html

There may be others, these are just the two senior players to speak out in the last week or so. You should read Stevo's article, it talks about how the group is very tight and improving.

If I was asked about the Carlton playing group and their relationship with the coach, I'd probably beleive the combined public output of Nick Stevens and Brendan Fevola before I beleived an anonymous poster (who as already been banned on TC) from BF.

_________________
"Who discovered we could get milk from cows, and what did he think he was doing at the time?" Billy Connolly

Spot on 2nd Effort - probably time you took a break from this forum though, your rational position won't be supported by the anonymous peanuts. Yay for commonsense at last though

What do you expect....That there gonna come out and say we hate the moron, that does not have a game plan. Has us running around like chooks without heads. They also said they were 100% behind Brittain too....Think about it..

_________________
Blueboy forever

Ah, 2ndefort, that was a pretty poor effort you know, both from you and Fev. Do you believe everything you read? Better wise up fella.

I'd more worried than not worried about this article if I was Denis, because clubs usually knife a coach after they've backed them in publicly.

Yep fair call, what was I thinking listening to the players. What was I thinking reading the paper!! What would a couple of players and some Journo's know about it anyway, I mean there's loads of folks on the forums that 'just know' these things anyway. Fans go to the games and dont need to be told what's going on, they can tell when the coach has lost the players, just look at the team. In fact there's probably folks in the outer that can tell the coach has lost the players 2 seasons before the players know themselves.

I wonder if there was a player come out and say he hated playing for Pagan and was lost to him 2 seasons ago how many posters would then lend some credibility to the papers and jump on the 'told you so' bandwagon.

Oh and no I dont beleive everything I read, in fact I try to make a valued and intelligent assessment of the evidence on offer and take a logical stance from that. In this case we have on one side:

*rumours, conjecture and whinging from fans on web forums with pretty much nothing else to back it up. Sure the team's not travelling well but there are plausible alternate excuses for that.

on the other hand we have:

*a proud coach with a great record who has been re-signed by the board for a second tenure. We have senior players supporting him in the media and we have a president who is also supporting him in the media. I know that presidents have supported coaches before just before they sacked him. i know there's a rumour going around that Pagan's re-negotiating his contract. But in the absence of any evidence these are just that, rumours.

If I am so totally naive and misguided can somebody do me the courtesy of providing some good evidence to the contrary. I have been good enough to provide links and quotes to support my previous post. If somebody's got some 'PaganGate' tape transcripts or Board meeting minutes then trot them out now and I will happily accept your position.

Rumour, innuendo and the Dennis Denuto defence of 'the vibe' are no substitute for the public record. How about a bit of evidence before you criticise. Oh and additionally, I dont reckon Fev is smart enough to be playing mind games through the media regarding Dennis' contract.

_________________
"Who discovered we could get milk from cows, and what did he think he was doing at the time?" Billy Connolly

Of course it is. Same as politics, you follow the "party line" when talking to the press. That's not hard to work out. Anyone knows that unless you're horribly niave. That's how the sysem works. Players used to say exactly the same thing in 1989 about Robert Walls too until he got sacked. Then we went from 2 wins wins from 10 matches to win 7 1/2 of the next 10, the other 2 games were losses by 3 and 4 points, one of those to Hawthorn who went on to win the flag.

Are you the same person who'd be sucked in to buying an expensive "lemon" as a used car salemans.

An interesting theory Molly.

Anyone who doesnt support what your view as a "rational position" is an anonymous peanut.

I'd suggest Brendan Fevola is supporting the coach. Good on him.
But to suggest he speaks for all the players is laughable.

The club captain came out recently and nominated Wayne Brittain as the greatest influence on his career.
Most including the media viewed this as undermining Denis Pagan.

Was he acting on behalf of the players as well?
I dont think so.
I'd suggest there are players very happy with Denis' coaching and there are players disenchanted.

Lets not be foolish enough to suggest one player speaks for 38.

_________________
Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

I gotta take you to task on this passage 2nd, sorry.



IMHO it should have read....
















NOTHING, NIL, ZILCH, NADA, ETC.

_________________
2002:> "In their Masters Chambers
They Gathered for their Feast
They Stabbed us with their Steely Knives
But They Just Can't Kill The Beast!" <2016

THE BLUEBAGGER BEAST IS BAACKK!!

Wasn't aware the players weren't behind Brittain. Thought it was Jack trying to come up with a way of saving his skin.

If the players aren't behind Pagan they just sidestep the issue like all good politicians do. They don't have to come out and actually say they support him.

Oh 2nd, let me go over a couple of things quickly.

Dennis saved Fevola's career, do we expect him to say anything different? Of course he likes him, but if he didn't would he say anything else when asked?

Furthermore if you were a hack player with no chance of getting a game anywhere else I am pretty sure you would like the coach that keeps you on a playing list and never blames you for heavy defeats.

_________________
Between our dreams and actions lies this world

Actually what you do is avoid, twist and alter the answers to cover your owen agenda. If there were things afoot I'm not sure the club would want Fev speaking to the media on the issue. let's face it Fev's no rhode scholar and any elaborate cover job is in jeopardy if Fev's answering the questions.

Have you ever seen Howard/Costello being interviewed?? Here's an example of what Smorgon would say if he was up to something:

(Reporter) Mr Smorgon, the Blues are in deep trouble, your finances are in a perilous state and the latest rumours have you looking to sack your coach, what do you have to say:

(Smorgon) I think what is important here is the tremdous effort being put in by everybody. This is a strong club, a proud club, we've been around for over 100 years and we're all pulling in the same direction. I'm not going to speculate on what we might or might not do, but you can rest assured and I'd like all of our supporters to know that everybody from the Board to the coach to the playing group is doing absolutely everything we can to turn this club around.

(Journo) Are you going to sack your coach

(Smorgon) Dennis has done an exceptional job of growing our list. he has set about rebuilding our list over the last couple of years. Things havent been easy for a proud guy such as him and with the added difficulty of draft penalties it has been a herculean effort.

(Journo) But your team keeps losing and you havent answered the question, what about your coach

(Smorgon) Our coach is not the issue here. You can talk about coaches all you want but what we should really be talking about is the AFLs decision on MC Labour Park. We are down at the monment and a strong Carlton is good for the AFL.......blah....blah....blah!!!

Non commital, a riddle within an enigma etc etc. You dont send Stevo and Fev out to say:

"we are 100% behind Dennis and he is great"

If there's trouble you send some fringe players to a human interest story at the Children's Hospital etc. You have a story on Kouta at the soccer. You do not invite the media to aim their guns at you.

Most of the coaches that do get sacked are pretty much known about in the media in the lead up. Remember danny Frawley and Schwab. Basically they have that 'Dead Man Walking' look about them. Most of the media pundits seem to think Pagan is the best guy for the club at the moment. It seems only to be supporters upset at results that are angry at him. He doesnt seem to have that air of leprosy about him just yet.

As I said though, I might be wrong, give me some evidence guys, something more than a 'vibe'.

_________________
"Who discovered we could get milk from cows, and what did he think he was doing at the time?" Billy Connolly

In fairness to Fevola and 2nd effort, I truly believe Fev is a big supporter of Pagan. I also have no doubt there are several players who are big supporters of Pagan.

I just think it's unrealistic to suggest Fevola speaks on behalf of the total list.

_________________
Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

I think it is unrealistic to suggest that any player at any AFL club speaks on behalf of the total list.

If there is nothing wrong and all the players are 100% behing Pagan

Why say anything at all

Why even mention it

They could show it by their actions on the football field

_________________
If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws