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List Management 2021
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Author:  Walsh [ Mon Jul 12, 2021 12:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: List Management 2021

sinbagger wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
I'd like to swap Setterfield for Geelong's Constable. Tougher, stronger, Faster, Fiercer. Better.

I'd like to swap Fogarty, Williamson and OBrien for StKilda's Dunstan. Hey we can get him for nothing.


I’d rather go the draft for four players.


Fairly thin in this years draft with pick 6 + 25 currently our next pick is in the 60s.

I am sure the club wouldn't mind another couple 2nd/3rd round picks

Author:  jamespul65 [ Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: List Management 2021

i dont how swans do it they keep finding players,that quick,skillful,there recruiting is fantastic and great game plan .Need to remember never bottom out but still produce goods.

Author:  bondiblue [ Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: List Management 2021

jamespul65 wrote:
i dont how swans do it they keep finding players,that quick,skillful,there recruiting is fantastic and great game plan .Need to remember never bottom out but still produce goods.


Well for one, the Swans have a group of senior players always at hand to direct and to ensure the culture and the efforts are in tact. ie no passengers, no flower.

For a start, compare the 2 captains: Cripps vs Kennedy. Both tough big inside mids (Cripps 6 cm taller)

One thing you wont hear the rubbish by th media that the Swans will ruin Kennedy if keeps playing the hard inside mid (he has since his first year at Swans in 2010 when he came 3rd in their BnF).

Kennedy never shirks a contest even with 2 shoulders strapped up and one leg lame. he goes hard and never takes a backward step.

Kennedy is 33 years old this year and still going hard as the inside mid, and Swans wil invite him to play another year next year in the same role as a 34yo. He could play his 300th game next year.

Culture and every player plays their role.

Plenty of tough inside mids, not to spread the role, but to ensure the midfield group don't depend on one mid to win the hard ball thereafter its about game plan and the Swans always are tinkering to suit their personnel.

Author:  bondiblue [ Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: List Management 2021

Crusader wrote:
We’ve got a dozen more games out of Fogarty than I thought we would. He was busted when he came to us, just about every muscle & joint in his legs had been worked over.

The right strength program should have him kicking longer & tackling stronger.



Good luck.

He was super fit before the season started.
I spoke with him and he was the fittest he had ever been in preseason.

He needs to change the way he kicks (if its not too late). He's a very accurate 15 metre pass by foot, and that's because of the way he kicks: opposite style to Buddy regardless of height diff.

At best, he's a depth player imo. Too many weaknesses for a forward imo.

Author:  bondiblue [ Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: List Management 2021

sinbagger wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
I'd like to swap Setterfield for Geelong's Constable. Tougher, stronger, Faster, Fiercer. Better.

I'd like to swap Fogarty, Williamson and OBrien for StKilda's Dunstan. Hey we can get him for nothing.


I’d rather go the draft for four players.


and what do you do with Fogarty Williamson Setterfield and OBrien? They are taking up 4 spots are not the future imo.

I'm hoping we can get something for the players I mentioned because they are a bust whereas Constable and Dunstan are cheaper and far harder at the ball and win more ball than our 4 seat warmers.

Author:  Stefchook [ Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: List Management 2021

jamespul65 wrote:
i dont how swans do it they keep finding players,that quick,skillful,there recruiting is fantastic and great game plan .Need to remember never bottom out but still produce goods.


Largely because of the Swans Academy rort. Basically they get access to the best Sydney juniors and get to develop them as teenagers. Effectively they get 2 1st round picks every year. Last year it was 3.

Author:  GreatEx [ Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: List Management 2021

Yep, definitely a fair chunk of that. My niece is in the GWS junior program and it's a very impressive set-up, so don't be surprised to see two Sydney clubs with a huge leg-up over the Melbourne suburbanites for decades to come.

Author:  keogh [ Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: List Management 2021

The best thing potentially about the Fogarty trade is with pick 38 we got Carroll
Fogarty is average at best

Author:  frank dardew [ Tue Jul 13, 2021 2:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: List Management 2021

I think Fogarty has potential but has dropped away badly after a good first half of the year
Still in football infancy so let’s be a bit patient

Author:  bondiblue [ Wed Jul 14, 2021 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: List Management 2021

We look at how we can improve our clearances, and a young ruckman from Freo named Sean Darcy gives us a few hints.

Quote:
The first is hitouts to advantage. In round 16 against Carlton, Darcy had 22 taps to advantage – the most of any from the big four ruckmen, edging Grundy (21) and Gawn and Naitanui, who have both hit season highs of 17.


Quote:
His combination with young midfielder Caleb Serong against the Hawks was a highlight, setting up many of the NAB AFL Rising Star's 10 clearances.


Our mids don't get that sort of armchair ride from Pittonet, Levi or DeKoning. DeKoning may become more productive but at 21yo the norm suggests he has 3-4 years to go before he excels.

Then there's the other stuff we expect from the big ruckman (qualities we were use to from Big Nick, Percy, Madden, and Allan for a year or two, but not since them):

Quote:
The second area where Darcy's best has been the best among ruckmen this season is intercept marks.

Fitter and smarter in his fifth season, Darcy has pushed into defence when needed and he took seven intercept marks against the Hawks, edging Gawn's best effort this season (five) and well ahead of Grundy (three) and Naitanui (one).

His intercept marking provided protection from the Hawks' deep entries on Saturday, and at other times gave the Dockers' repeat inside 50s when he marked their clearing kicks in the midfield.


Our defenders can do with the added support when they are one on one defending.

Quote:
The third indicator is goals, with Darcy booting a season best three against the Hawks in round four, ahead of Gawn (two), Grundy (two) and Naitanui (one).


Frankly, I can't see Pittonet mirroring the above, and feel if we are to make Finals, and give them a red hot go as of next year, we need to get ourselves a bonafide ruckman to do it, and DeKoning can work on his forward craft in the meantime.

Easy ask, hard to find. But those who think ruck role is overrated is probably because they haven't seen what the good ones provide, and rarely a ruckman gives his team the above 3 qualities.

Author:  Crusader [ Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: List Management 2021

bondiblue wrote:
Crusader wrote:
We’ve got a dozen more games out of Fogarty than I thought we would. He was busted when he came to us, just about every muscle & joint in his legs had been worked over.

The right strength program should have him kicking longer & tackling stronger.



Good luck.

He was super fit before the season started.
I spoke with him and he was the fittest he had ever been in preseason.

He needs to change the way he kicks (if its not too late). He's a very accurate 15 metre pass by foot, and that's because of the way he kicks: opposite style to Buddy regardless of height diff.

At best, he's a depth player imo. Too many weaknesses for a forward imo.

Hip surgery plus hamstring & ankle issues last year. Calf & groin before that.

Not surprised he was at his best in the early season. This is the deepest into a season he’s been since his rookie year.

He’s an AFL-level player, he just needs strength. Everything else is compensating for a lack of it… if his hips are still [REDACTED], then he’ll be pushing shit uphill to get it.

Author:  bondiblue [ Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: List Management 2021

Crusader wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Crusader wrote:
We’ve got a dozen more games out of Fogarty than I thought we would. He was busted when he came to us, just about every muscle & joint in his legs had been worked over.

The right strength program should have him kicking longer & tackling stronger.



Good luck.

He was super fit before the season started.
I spoke with him and he was the fittest he had ever been in preseason.

He needs to change the way he kicks (if its not too late). He's a very accurate 15 metre pass by foot, and that's because of the way he kicks: opposite style to Buddy regardless of height diff.

At best, he's a depth player imo. Too many weaknesses for a forward imo.

Hip surgery plus hamstring & ankle issues last year. Calf & groin before that.

Not surprised he was at his best in the early season. This is the deepest into a season he’s been since his rookie year.

He’s an AFL-level player, he just needs strength. Everything else is compensating for a lack of it… if his hips are still [REDACTED], then he’ll be pushing shit uphill to get it.


That makes a lot of sense.

Another player selected when not fit enough for AFL. not good for player, team or supporters.

Author:  Walsh [ Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: List Management 2021

Fogs is an above average player according to stats and having his best season to date.

https://www.carltonfc.com.au/players/17 ... statistics

Author:  Crusader [ Thu Jul 15, 2021 1:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: List Management 2021

bondiblue wrote:
We look at how we can improve our clearances, and a young ruckman from Freo named Sean Darcy gives us a few hints.

Quote:
The first is hitouts to advantage. In round 16 against Carlton, Darcy had 22 taps to advantage – the most of any from the big four ruckmen, edging Grundy (21) and Gawn and Naitanui, who have both hit season highs of 17.


Quote:
His combination with young midfielder Caleb Serong against the Hawks was a highlight, setting up many of the NAB AFL Rising Star's 10 clearances.


Our mids don't get that sort of armchair ride from Pittonet, Levi or DeKoning. DeKoning may become more productive but at 21yo the norm suggests he has 3-4 years to go before he excels.

Then there's the other stuff we expect from the big ruckman (qualities we were use to from Big Nick, Percy, Madden, and Allan for a year or two, but not since them):

Quote:
The second area where Darcy's best has been the best among ruckmen this season is intercept marks.

Fitter and smarter in his fifth season, Darcy has pushed into defence when needed and he took seven intercept marks against the Hawks, edging Gawn's best effort this season (five) and well ahead of Grundy (three) and Naitanui (one).

His intercept marking provided protection from the Hawks' deep entries on Saturday, and at other times gave the Dockers' repeat inside 50s when he marked their clearing kicks in the midfield.


Our defenders can do with the added support when they are one on one defending.

Quote:
The third indicator is goals, with Darcy booting a season best three against the Hawks in round four, ahead of Gawn (two), Grundy (two) and Naitanui (one).


Frankly, I can't see Pittonet mirroring the above, and feel if we are to make Finals, and give them a red hot go as of next year, we need to get ourselves a bonafide ruckman to do it, and DeKoning can work on his forward craft in the meantime.

Easy ask, hard to find. But those who think ruck role is overrated is probably because they haven't seen what the good ones provide, and rarely a ruckman gives his team the above 3 qualities.

The first point is all that matters for a serviceable ruckman. Earlier in the season, Grundy had 50+ hitouts against us with Pittonet taking the lion’s share of contests. And yet, because he limited those ‘wins’ for Grundy to just the hitout (no advantage) we had more centre clearances & split the stoppage clearances down the middle. A week later against a Darcy/Meek combo, the hitouts to advantage were again about square and we crushed them.

What Pittonet brings is a reduced liability at the stoppages. Without him, it’s a massive shift from hunting, to chasing.

When De Koning went up against Darcy, he was violated in ways not seen since Jamie Fraser surrendered to Black Jack Randall.

Darcy is a brute, Grundy is a craftsman. If we’re going to get anywhere near Collingwood this week, De Koning will need to produce something much better than the -10 hitouts to advantage differential he’s brought so far. Beyond that, it’s fair to say that the only way is up for him.

Author:  jamespul65 [ Fri Jul 16, 2021 2:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: List Management 2021

watching cats play fogarty would not get a game for them ,same goes for setterfield and kennedy and plowman not good enough ,only Gws injuries might allow the x players to get a game.

Author:  keogh [ Sat Jul 17, 2021 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: List Management 2021

Just as a thought
Why did we get rid of Nick Holman
He goes alright

Author:  bluehammer [ Sat Jul 17, 2021 8:13 pm ]
Post subject:  List Management 2021

Because he didn't go alright for us and people probably thought he was a useless recruiting bust clogging our list...

Author:  keogh [ Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: List Management 2021

I thought he showed more potential than many others

Author:  frank dardew [ Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: List Management 2021

To be fair I think a few of us thought he was alright and thought he was unlucky to be delisted at the time.

Author:  bluehammer [ Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:31 pm ]
Post subject:  List Management 2021

Include me in that.

But I think we all know that under our system of development he would have been playing in the bush somewhere by now.

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