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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2023 4:43 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:09 pm
Posts: 5834
bondiblue wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
Do we fill the vacancy now or wait for the MSD?

I would prefer to wait, but my concern is our diminishing number of available players.

Williams & Philp are gone for the year. And for the first month of the season, we can already rule out:
Walsh
Boyd
Cottrell

The following are still on modified programs so will presumably need to start the season in the VFL until they have caught up:
Cunners
Marchbank
Fogarty
Honey
Pittonet (?)

Then add the players in development who you wouldn’t remotely consider for senior selection early in the season:
Mirkov
HOK
Lemmey
Akuei

There’s five weeks until round 1, and you can bet we’ll lose more before then (paging Drs Martin & McGovern). In that case, we will have less than 30 players who could be realistically considered for round 1. And that >30 includes Binns, Hollands & Cowan.

So I can definitely appreciate why the club might be tempted to roll the dice now on a mature bodied 26 year old who, though unlikely to be on our list next year, can be counted on to have a crack as we work through (another) injury crisis.



Hey abns, not having a crack at you but ...
Like some other posters, you do tend to paint the worst case scenario in many of your posts this summer.
I think, like many Carlton supporters you are scarred from the past 2 decades, and the last 2 games of 2022. I totally get it.

As soon as there's an injury , it seems like the end of the world.
As soon as there's a loss the season is predicted to fall apart like it did in the last 2 decades.

"Injury crisis"? "Diminshing number of available players"? That's a bit of a stretch writing that as fact in your opening lines, when its more like an opinion. Only Williams and Philp have been written off for the year due to injury. Walsh will miss the start of the season and Boyd, maybe first half season.

I notice later in your post you do use the word "presumably" when explaining your predictions, but the truth is none of us outside the 4 walls at Ikon know what the individual programs consist of and what the plan of each program is to write off all the above you list. That is the worse case scenario if the injuries are as bad as you "presume".

This is a different era. This is the Voss, Sayers, Cook era. The team showed plenty in 2022 to have confidence going into 2023.

I believe there's plenty of reasons why Marchbank will be played ahead of Cowan in a Finals like game in Round 1. Baptism of fire is one main reason. Cowan is in his first preseason and on lighter duties than 2nd and 3rs year recruits. Pittonet competes with TDK in every trial game we hear of, and Pitto is winning the dual if training reports are to be believed. There's 5 weeks before Round 1. Lets see if Cottrell gets back for a praccy game, and if he does, do you really think Cottrell will take more than a month to regain fitness?

Looks to me the individual programs this preseason is part of a well thought out plan.

We have to wait to see what happens in the praccy games. Bad luck to Boyd, Walsh and Williams with their injuries; that's footy. They're the only 3 we can write off (and Philp, but he's a developing player like Cowan, Hollands, Lemmey and Binns are, as are the players you mention.

We have a list of 44 players. My money is on more than 30 players will be available for round 1 AFL team, and we only need 23 of the best available. I don't feel I'm over confident, but there's plenty of reasons why the team that runs out to play Tigers in round 1 will be more than competitive, and improved on last years team.

We are not going to win every game: no team will.
Its a long season and Walsh and Boyd will be back too.
If we don't win the Flag this year, its not a failure, but if we improve on last years performance with the "injury crisis" we DID have, and the individual programs benefit the playing group.... :sly:

It would be unseemly for me to defend my posting style - I’ll let others (and time) judge whether my concern about our injuries is founded or not - but the highlighted section of your post is curious to me in that context.

The people you mention have little directly to do with injury management and, in any event, they were in charge last year. What did you think of our injury outcomes last year, and does the current evidence suggest that our injury outcomes will be better this year?

While the Williams injury could definitely be categorised under “that’s footy”, losing three young players to foot injuries in the space of three weeks doesn’t engender confidence in the program. That’s another layer on top of what happened in 2022 under the same regime.

As an aside, do I detect a slight whiff of “the poster doth protest too much, methinks” about your post...? :wink:


I'm sorry abns but I don't really understand your response...especially the last line re "whiff" and the "doth". No capiche. I'm no Shakespearean.

Describing the state of our list as "diminishing numbers" I suggested was a bit of a stretch and I explained why, unless you know more about player injuries.
The names highlighted I feel can't be written off, because club hasn't, therefore not an "injury crisis" till it is.

The highlighted names above are those not yet written off for round 1. That's all.

Boyd refractures his ankle.
Philp breaks down again with foot injury
Cottrell in moon doot for foot injury.

You blame the program? That's the inference. I don't.

As far as this year is concerned. The season hasn't started. Praccy games haven't started, and I'm not writing off the players I've highlighted. I have no reason to. They are in good hands imo. We are carrying injury prone players and we have cover for them.

I think some people are still spooked with the past, and I'm understanding of that, but I'd rather look at each season separately. Only Walsh's injury is lingering from last season. Sure we have some injury prone players on our list, and you can bet, for or against , that they will be injured for a majority of the season, if you like, but that's betting and guessing. You haven't mentioned Martin whose on a modified program too. Is that because he's past previous injuries or you think he's being managed better than others, or you can add him to the list with Pitto and Marchy ???? I don't know and I can't tell.

I think Vossy Sayers Cook (if they are the people in charge youre referring to), will have learned something from last year. There's more of a focus on customised programs. Looks to me they have recruited to fill gaps in the team and for cover in the future. They have conducted their review of the S & C program. I'm sure they would be doing some things differently. None of us know why Marchy, Martin, Cunners to name a few are on modified programs or if they are responding well to a well managed plan.

I was trying to find out if the reason for your outlook was more to do with scarring from the past or something you're expecting because you know something about players in your post, or is it you don't think (guessing) they will not stand up to the rigours of AFL. That's all. Curious, what's fact and what's opinion.

I think you may be right to think we are vulnerable and I feel we cant afford to have 5 players out from our best 23 to perform well, and until are in that spot, I reckon we are right on track for a crack from round 1.

You & I both don’t know what we don’t know.

I can only go by what’s reported - ie. it’s mid-February and Williams, Philp, Walsh, Cottrell & Boyd are sidelined, and another handful are still on modified duties. History shows that playing catch up with your injuries never works.

I think injuries will be the biggest enemy to our success. The same people are in charge that were in charge last year, so I don’t follow why I should be confident that we’ll have more ‘luck’ with injuries this year - especially based on the injury list as at mid-February.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2023 4:45 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 6021
Top shelf players
Cripps
McKay
Docherty
Walsh
Weitering
Curnow
Saad
That’s 7
Next level
Hewett
Kennedy
Next level
Acres
Fisher
Cerra
That’s 12
Durdin
Motlop
DeKoning
Have shown potential
That’s 15
Whose are next best?
Granted our age demographic is younger than Collingwood but relying on 15 blokesisnt going to give you a top 4 spot
Losing Kennedy and Hewett showed our lack of depth
Hewett in particular was a massive loss. Best clearance player on our list
At least 15 players on our list have to step up
Please don’t add Martin or Mc Govern to those 15 players
They have been crap


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2023 5:18 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
*double post


Last edited by FarmerBlue on Sun Feb 12, 2023 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2023 5:19 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
aboynamedsue wrote:

I can only go by what’s reported - ie. it’s mid-February and Williams, Philp, Walsh, Cottrell & Boyd are sidelined, and another handful are still on modified duties. History shows that playing catch up with your injuries never works.

I think injuries will be the biggest enemy to our success. The same people are in charge that were in charge last year, so I don’t follow why I should be confident that we’ll have more ‘luck’ with injuries this year - especially based on the injury list as at mid-February.


2 key things.

1. Voss asked Russell to push them last pre season and if some break they break. He was disgusted with some players fitness levels and lack of professionalism
2. This year we have gone to a very individualised program during pre season. eg. McGovern given rests. Marchbank being eased back in slowly as is Cuningham. Neither carrying injuries or have issues just given history we are being conservative


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2023 5:21 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17597
keogh wrote:
Top shelf players
Cripps
McKay
Docherty
Walsh
Weitering
Curnow
Saad
That’s 7
Next level
Hewett
Kennedy
Next level
Acres
Fisher
Cerra
That’s 12
Durdin
Motlop
DeKoning
Have shown potential
That’s 15
Whose are next best?
Granted our age demographic is younger than Collingwood but relying on 15 blokesisnt going to give you a top 4 spot
Losing Kennedy and Hewett showed our lack of depth
Hewett in particular was a massive loss. Best clearance player on our list
At least 15 players on our list have to step up
Please don’t add Martin or Mc Govern to those 15 players
They have been crap


McCreery, Hoskin Elliott, Mihocek, Ginnivan, Lipinski, Nathan Murphy, Ash Johnson, Mason Cox etc etc etc. You don't get it.
As usual everyone else is special and we're shit.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2023 5:26 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
keogh wrote:
Top shelf players
Cripps
McKay
Docherty
Walsh
Weitering
Curnow
Saad
That’s 7
Next level
Hewett
Kennedy
Next level
Acres
Fisher
Cerra
That’s 12
Durdin
Motlop
DeKoning
Have shown potential
That’s 15
Whose are next best?
Granted our age demographic is younger than Collingwood but relying on 15 blokesisnt going to give you a top 4 spot
Losing Kennedy and Hewett showed our lack of depth
Hewett in particular was a massive loss. Best clearance player on our list
At least 15 players on our list have to step up
Please don’t add Martin or Mc Govern to those 15 players
They have been crap


My top level

Cripps
McKay
Docherty
Walsh
Weitering
Charlie
Saad
Hewett

Close and vital

Kennedy Cerra Acres Williams

If these step up to ability we could be anything

TDK Durdin Motlop Martin Hollands Cowan O'Brien


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2023 6:57 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:09 pm
Posts: 5834
FarmerBlue wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:

I can only go by what’s reported - ie. it’s mid-February and Williams, Philp, Walsh, Cottrell & Boyd are sidelined, and another handful are still on modified duties. History shows that playing catch up with your injuries never works.

I think injuries will be the biggest enemy to our success. The same people are in charge that were in charge last year, so I don’t follow why I should be confident that we’ll have more ‘luck’ with injuries this year - especially based on the injury list as at mid-February.


2 key things.

1. Voss asked Russell to push them last pre season and if some break they break. He was disgusted with some players fitness levels and lack of professionalism
2. This year we have gone to a very individualised program during pre season. eg. McGovern given rests. Marchbank being eased back in slowly as is Cuningham. Neither carrying injuries or have issues just given history we are being conservative

I wonder what the individualised programs for Boyd, Cottrell & Philp looked like?

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2023 7:01 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
aboynamedsue wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:

I can only go by what’s reported - ie. it’s mid-February and Williams, Philp, Walsh, Cottrell & Boyd are sidelined, and another handful are still on modified duties. History shows that playing catch up with your injuries never works.

I think injuries will be the biggest enemy to our success. The same people are in charge that were in charge last year, so I don’t follow why I should be confident that we’ll have more ‘luck’ with injuries this year - especially based on the injury list as at mid-February.


2 key things.

1. Voss asked Russell to push them last pre season and if some break they break. He was disgusted with some players fitness levels and lack of professionalism
2. This year we have gone to a very individualised program during pre season. eg. McGovern given rests. Marchbank being eased back in slowly as is Cuningham. Neither carrying injuries or have issues just given history we are being conservative

I wonder what the individualised programs for Boyd, Cottrell & Philp looked like?


Boyd had a foot that was stood on, Cottrell got stress fracture hot spot and was put in moon boot asap and Philp's body hasn't stood up to anything

Need to be balanced


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2023 10:38 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 23030
Location: Bondi Beach
aboynamedsue wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
aboynamedsue wrote:
Do we fill the vacancy now or wait for the MSD?

I would prefer to wait, but my concern is our diminishing number of available players.

Williams & Philp are gone for the year. And for the first month of the season, we can already rule out:
Walsh
Boyd
Cottrell

The following are still on modified programs so will presumably need to start the season in the VFL until they have caught up:
Cunners
Marchbank
Fogarty
Honey
Pittonet (?)

Then add the players in development who you wouldn’t remotely consider for senior selection early in the season:
Mirkov
HOK
Lemmey
Akuei

There’s five weeks until round 1, and you can bet we’ll lose more before then (paging Drs Martin & McGovern). In that case, we will have less than 30 players who could be realistically considered for round 1. And that >30 includes Binns, Hollands & Cowan.

So I can definitely appreciate why the club might be tempted to roll the dice now on a mature bodied 26 year old who, though unlikely to be on our list next year, can be counted on to have a crack as we work through (another) injury crisis.



Hey abns, not having a crack at you but ...
Like some other posters, you do tend to paint the worst case scenario in many of your posts this summer.
I think, like many Carlton supporters you are scarred from the past 2 decades, and the last 2 games of 2022. I totally get it.

As soon as there's an injury , it seems like the end of the world.
As soon as there's a loss the season is predicted to fall apart like it did in the last 2 decades.

"Injury crisis"? "Diminshing number of available players"? That's a bit of a stretch writing that as fact in your opening lines, when its more like an opinion. Only Williams and Philp have been written off for the year due to injury. Walsh will miss the start of the season and Boyd, maybe first half season.

I notice later in your post you do use the word "presumably" when explaining your predictions, but the truth is none of us outside the 4 walls at Ikon know what the individual programs consist of and what the plan of each program is to write off all the above you list. That is the worse case scenario if the injuries are as bad as you "presume".

This is a different era. This is the Voss, Sayers, Cook era. The team showed plenty in 2022 to have confidence going into 2023.

I believe there's plenty of reasons why Marchbank will be played ahead of Cowan in a Finals like game in Round 1. Baptism of fire is one main reason. Cowan is in his first preseason and on lighter duties than 2nd and 3rs year recruits. Pittonet competes with TDK in every trial game we hear of, and Pitto is winning the dual if training reports are to be believed. There's 5 weeks before Round 1. Lets see if Cottrell gets back for a praccy game, and if he does, do you really think Cottrell will take more than a month to regain fitness?

Looks to me the individual programs this preseason is part of a well thought out plan.

We have to wait to see what happens in the praccy games. Bad luck to Boyd, Walsh and Williams with their injuries; that's footy. They're the only 3 we can write off (and Philp, but he's a developing player like Cowan, Hollands, Lemmey and Binns are, as are the players you mention.

We have a list of 44 players. My money is on more than 30 players will be available for round 1 AFL team, and we only need 23 of the best available. I don't feel I'm over confident, but there's plenty of reasons why the team that runs out to play Tigers in round 1 will be more than competitive, and improved on last years team.

We are not going to win every game: no team will.
Its a long season and Walsh and Boyd will be back too.
If we don't win the Flag this year, its not a failure, but if we improve on last years performance with the "injury crisis" we DID have, and the individual programs benefit the playing group.... :sly:

It would be unseemly for me to defend my posting style - I’ll let others (and time) judge whether my concern about our injuries is founded or not - but the highlighted section of your post is curious to me in that context.

The people you mention have little directly to do with injury management and, in any event, they were in charge last year. What did you think of our injury outcomes last year, and does the current evidence suggest that our injury outcomes will be better this year?

While the Williams injury could definitely be categorised under “that’s footy”, losing three young players to foot injuries in the space of three weeks doesn’t engender confidence in the program. That’s another layer on top of what happened in 2022 under the same regime.

As an aside, do I detect a slight whiff of “the poster doth protest too much, methinks” about your post...? :wink:


I'm sorry abns but I don't really understand your response...especially the last line re "whiff" and the "doth". No capiche. I'm no Shakespearean.

Describing the state of our list as "diminishing numbers" I suggested was a bit of a stretch and I explained why, unless you know more about player injuries.
The names highlighted I feel can't be written off, because club hasn't, therefore not an "injury crisis" till it is.

The highlighted names above are those not yet written off for round 1. That's all.

Boyd refractures his ankle.
Philp breaks down again with foot injury
Cottrell in moon doot for foot injury.

You blame the program? That's the inference. I don't.

As far as this year is concerned. The season hasn't started. Praccy games haven't started, and I'm not writing off the players I've highlighted. I have no reason to. They are in good hands imo. We are carrying injury prone players and we have cover for them.

I think some people are still spooked with the past, and I'm understanding of that, but I'd rather look at each season separately. Only Walsh's injury is lingering from last season. Sure we have some injury prone players on our list, and you can bet, for or against , that they will be injured for a majority of the season, if you like, but that's betting and guessing. You haven't mentioned Martin whose on a modified program too. Is that because he's past previous injuries or you think he's being managed better than others, or you can add him to the list with Pitto and Marchy ???? I don't know and I can't tell.

I think Vossy Sayers Cook (if they are the people in charge youre referring to), will have learned something from last year. There's more of a focus on customised programs. Looks to me they have recruited to fill gaps in the team and for cover in the future. They have conducted their review of the S & C program. I'm sure they would be doing some things differently. None of us know why Marchy, Martin, Cunners to name a few are on modified programs or if they are responding well to a well managed plan.

I was trying to find out if the reason for your outlook was more to do with scarring from the past or something you're expecting because you know something about players in your post, or is it you don't think (guessing) they will not stand up to the rigours of AFL. That's all. Curious, what's fact and what's opinion.

I think you may be right to think we are vulnerable and I feel we cant afford to have 5 players out from our best 23 to perform well, and until are in that spot, I reckon we are right on track for a crack from round 1.

You & I both don’t know what we don’t know.

I can only go by what’s reported - ie. it’s mid-February and Williams, Philp, Walsh, Cottrell & Boyd are sidelined, and another handful are still on modified duties. History shows that playing catch up with your injuries never works.

I think injuries will be the biggest enemy to our success. The same people are in charge that were in charge last year, so I don’t follow why I should be confident that we’ll have more ‘luck’ with injuries this year - especially based on the injury list as at mid-February.


Gotcha. Logical. Injury interupted preseasons are not ideal. Hopefully they join the team when they are fit and strong after doing the work.

Can lightning strike twice?

I'm not expecting the same injury crisis we had last year.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2023 11:44 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Location: Half back flank
I wish I had your optimism bondi. It's felt like injury crisis has been a way of life here not just last year but the last 5, at least. Us & GWS seem to be the 2 clubs hardest hit, always.

Right now our injury/mod program list looks more like June/July to me, than Feb.

If we can get through the next 5 weeks of training without any more, that would be a win. That's about how low the bar is set :grin:

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2023 12:40 pm 
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Robert Walls
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CK95 wrote:
I wish I had your optimism bondi. It's felt like injury crisis has been a way of life here not just last year but the last 5, at least. Us & GWS seem to be the 2 clubs hardest hit, always.

Right now our injury/mod program list looks more like June/July to me, than Feb.

If we can get through the next 5 weeks of training without any more, that would be a win. That's about how low the bar is set :grin:


this is sad but true.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2023 1:12 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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I'm your dream, mind astray
I'm your eyes while you're away....

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2023 2:26 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:22 am
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I hope it's not as bad as last year. But last year it wasn't only the injuries. It was that they were often concentrated in one area so any depth we had was decimated.

Having said that, even with injuries I still expect us to perform strongly.
West Coast won a grand final without NicNat (arguably their most influential player), Gaff and Shepphard, and with McGovern and Shuey under significant injury clouds.
And need I remind anyone of the 1994 final against Geelong!

We now should have the depth and the game plan to win even with significant injury woes.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2023 2:36 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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17th Premiership wrote:
West Coast won a grand final without NicNat (arguably their most influential player), Gaff and Shepphard, and with McGovern and Shuey under significant injury clouds.



That's a fair point, was thinking about this just the other day actually. Their preseason for 2018 was terrible.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:56 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 23030
Location: Bondi Beach
CK95 wrote:
I wish I had your optimism bondi. It's felt like injury crisis has been a way of life here not just last year but the last 5, at least. Us & GWS seem to be the 2 clubs hardest hit, always.

Right now our injury/mod program list looks more like June/July to me, than Feb.

If we can get through the next 5 weeks of training without any more, that would be a win. That's about how low the bar is set :grin:


Its not blind faith CK.

Optimism imo is to believe we can win the flag if our Best 23 were available.

I'm looking at any improvement on the previous year; every year. What I see gives me optimism that will happen again.

I believe success for Carlton is making the Finals.

I can see that happen without Walsh, Williams & Boyd (who is expected in the snd half).
I can still see us making Finals without Marchbank/McGovern, Cuningham, Fogarty, Honey and Pittonet too.

Cottrell and walsh will be back, but we will lose someone else ... or some of Cuningham Marchbank McGovern and Pittonet stand up and stay on the park.

Those out of my Best 22 but are reliable enough to be part of the squad of 30 who can fill a void are Newman, Cottrell, Silvagni, C.Durdin, OBrien, Owies, S.Durdin, Plowman and Ed Curnow.

Its not a bad list. It can take us to Top 4. I can't see us suffering the same injury toll as last year, with Carlton missing 109 games from Best 22 (iI reckon its more and depends on your best 22).

What if 2 of Hollands Kemp Carroll Cowan, Cuningham and Dow have a break out year? Anyone doubt at least one will?

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2023 6:00 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Location: Bondi Beach
I dont expect Injury to decimate every KPD like it did last year, nor have 3 of our best 5 midfielders out like last year.

I reckon its worth following Carlton this year, and I'm booking myself in to follow them interstate.

Did you know there's 800 on the Legend Lounge Membership waiting list, and more for other Reserved seating.

I mustn't be the only optimistic fan out there...about injury and the team. There's going to be more wins than losses in 2023.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2023 9:23 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 6021
Blue Vain wrote:
keogh wrote:
Top shelf players
Cripps
McKay
Docherty
Walsh
Weitering
Curnow
Saad
That’s 7
Next level
Hewett
Kennedy
Next level
Acres
Fisher
Cerra
That’s 12
Durdin
Motlop
DeKoning
Have shown potential
That’s 15
Whose are next best?
Granted our age demographic is younger than Collingwood but relying on 15 blokesisnt going to give you a top 4 spot
Losing Kennedy and Hewett showed our lack of depth
Hewett in particular was a massive loss. Best clearance player on our list
At least 15 players on our list have to step up
Please don’t add Martin or Mc Govern to those 15 players
They have been crap


McCreery, Hoskin Elliott, Mihocek, Ginnivan, Lipinski, Nathan Murphy, Ash Johnson, Mason Cox etc etc etc. You don't get it.
As usual everyone else is special and we're shit.


Unlike your good self I won’t go down the personal attack route
Bottom line it’s a wins loss industry
Collingwood were better than us last year in that category
Mc Creery, Hoskins Elliott Mihocek Ginnivan Johnson the guys who you have bagged all played a part in them reaching a Prelim
Something Carlton hasn’t done in 23 years.
I acknowledged that our age demographic is better
I can’t add anything else
Except to say our depth is questionable
The results from last year prove that
Unless our bottom half improve we won’t


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2023 11:14 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 2533
keogh wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
keogh wrote:
Top shelf players
Cripps
McKay
Docherty
Walsh
Weitering
Curnow
Saad
That’s 7
Next level
Hewett
Kennedy
Next level
Acres
Fisher
Cerra
That’s 12
Durdin
Motlop
DeKoning
Have shown potential
That’s 15
Whose are next best?
Granted our age demographic is younger than Collingwood but relying on 15 blokesisnt going to give you a top 4 spot
Losing Kennedy and Hewett showed our lack of depth
Hewett in particular was a massive loss. Best clearance player on our list
At least 15 players on our list have to step up
Please don’t add Martin or Mc Govern to those 15 players
They have been crap


McCreery, Hoskin Elliott, Mihocek, Ginnivan, Lipinski, Nathan Murphy, Ash Johnson, Mason Cox etc etc etc. You don't get it.
As usual everyone else is special and we're shit.


Unlike your good self I won’t go down the personal attack route
Bottom line it’s a wins loss industry
Collingwood were better than us last year in that category
Mc Creery, Hoskins Elliott Mihocek Ginnivan Johnson the guys who you have bagged all played a part in them reaching a Prelim
Something Carlton hasn’t done in 23 years.
I acknowledged that our age demographic is better
I can’t add anything else
Except to say our depth is questionable
The results from last year prove that
Unless our bottom half improve we won’t


Ok, but the margins were pretty minute: 1 point loss in the last round. With a decimated midfield injury toll. If we had won that, I doubt Collingwood would have made it to the prelim either. And there were several games where we clearly did not apply ourselves as we should have. It could be argued that Collingwood, by contrast, squeezed every bit of juice (and arsey-ness) out of their season. Without major injuries.
The point is we are not that far off the pace. And the most significant barriers are addressable (e.g. effort, having a plan B when clearances are not firing).
PS. Just for the record, I would not put Elliott in the same category as the others - I reckon he is one of their most important players. Of course, like Martin and co, he tends to be injured a lot.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2023 4:01 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:06 pm
Posts: 34151
Location: Half back flank
We've signed Cincotta

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2023
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2023 4:01 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:40 pm
Posts: 6049
Is that right that Alex Cincotta has been added ?

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