I think the 2 ruck thing is overblown a lot.
Is it the 2 rucks or is it that we introduced 2 rucks at the same time we lost Gov Cerra Saad and Fogarty

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i agree

I agree, I think our guns running of the half back is the reason for the game style change.

put in saad, gov, with williams (is a vastly different player when he is the 4th defender) and we look a vastly different side coming out of defense. at the moment, it's just not happening quick enough, hence the reliance on the contested game.

conversely, fog (who amazingly seems to be a critical component) and martin in our forward fifty, with a fit motlop, and the ball isn't coming out as quickly ... durdin/owies/cunningham fighting for that last spot, drives performance and expectation ..

I'm starting to sound like abit of a broken drum to be honest, but I really do think, whilst we talk about our depth, its good, but its not as good as we think. None of it is a like for like replacement. Next man up etc.. is one thing, but next 10 up is another discussion

I haven't seen it overblown at all. As for injuries, that's why i said "Since we've played 2 rucks, we've lost 3 of 4 but we've played some good opposition and our injury list is significant."
But it can't be dismissed as inconsequential either. We have 1 less runner, TDK is a poor shot at goal and Pitto clogs the bench up for half a game. We still have to find ways to make it work.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

i wish i could be this hopeful & optimistic. we all agree footy is about winning. not how it looks, and individual stats or any other parameter. just winning.

our record with two rucks over last season and this is:

regular season 2023 lost 9 won 1 - won two finals.

and this season we've lost 3 of the last 4 with two rucks. melbourne abandoned the whole thing and they had no semblance of a forward line, and gawn is a much better forward than tdk. and grundy a much better ruck than pittonet. and they scrapped the idea. bcos. it. just. doesn't. work.



what we all skip over is the bit about how much harder the rest of the team has to work & run when you start the game down one runner in favour for a tall. we've completely stopped running out games. pies ran us off our feet after quarter time. crows rebounded all game long and put pace on the ball and we couldn't keep up, and the cats suffocated (and then spread) the immediate area around the stoppage after we'd won it and shut down our options bcos we couldn't chase for 2 hours.

and that's not even getting into BV's excellent piece about the stoppage game relies on individual performance, over a turnover game which is a team system where everyone plays a role. the turnover game wins premierships, and the stoppage game doesn't.

pies play the latter and really if we're all honest here, they should have won by 4-5 goals. cats should have too, if not for that late burst of goals we scored bcos they were down a midfield rotation (danger) and fell away in the last half of the 4th.

I can't wait to get another crack at this mob .

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Didn’t the pies have two rucks in Cox and Cameron?

Both of those players go forward and play it reasonably well. When one of them is forward, there are only two talls up there (Mihocek + Cox/Cameron).

When we do it, it's Charlie, Harry, TDK. Have you ever seen Pittonet go forward? Lol.

Combine that with Fantasia, Durdin and Owies doing 2 fifths of @#$%&! all and it doesn't work. We are way too slow.

And if we're not winning centre clearance to utiilse the 1 on 1's then we're nowhere, which is where we're at at the moment.

I still can't believe the margin at the end was only a goal

(won't be watching the replay to work out why either)

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pies were wasteful and are horribly out of form, is why. the margin should have been 4-5 goals. but watching the game at the time, it felt like a 50pt loss. we were outworked, outran and outcoached.

horribly out of form.......? they hadnt lost a game since round 2 leading into our game......and yes they should have beaten us by more.

How the @#$%&! did Schulz only get a week for his coward punch from behind???!!

@#$%&! knows. Currently being discussed at: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=37151&start=660#p2206739

i think for them, when they lose 3 to open the season draw to bombers and only beat hawthorn by a kick, they're out of form?

anyway, watched all their games so far, & that suffocating pressure and full ground press and zone was back for the first time and they were working the way it was last season. and when it's on, imo they're still the team to beat.

Agree. Unfortunately.

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There is a lot being made over the tackle count
I watch a fair bit of footy and I can't finds stats on this so it is only a hunch.
If a team gets rewarded early in the game for HTB you generally find that the team at the end of the match has higher tackle count.
You go back and watch the first quarter and there were instances where Carlton should have been awarded free kicks for Holding the ball and weren't - Conversely it seems every time Walsh or Crippa gets caught its paid against them.
I often feel this can have a positive and a negative affect on the tackle count - Get rewarded early and you tackle more - Get nothing for the effort and the tackle count drops.
I think the lack of reward has a bigger impact than the other way .
Its only a hunch and I have seen this work both ways for teams including carlton during the year

In this game we laid 19 , 10, 12 , 13 tackles in each quarter not one of the 19 tackles made in the 1st resulted in a free kick
Collingwood laid 23 tackle in the 1st quarter with 4 being free kicks for holding the ball - they then followed up with 25 tackles in the 2nd quarter where 2 holding the ball were awarded

not saying this is why we lost because we have had our fair share of decisions go our way but the wat HTB is interpreted in the game today you often wonder why you would tackle at all

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Pros:

We always compete and give ourselves a chance.
Forward efficiency was pretty good with such a low number of entries.
Weiters, Harry, Newman, Owies, Cotters and Walsh.
Good result forward for TDK. But he was poor when on ball. And kept turning it over when he got it.
Pretty good effort first up from Cincotta.

Cons:

Seem to have lost our knack at winning the close ones.
Out tackled and pressured.
Early rubbish gift goals to the opposition from the umpires.
Not much rebound out of the defence at the moment. Weiters and Newman are slow. Young is a statue. And Boyd, Cincotta and Cowan are still finding their feet. Williams is struggling.
Acres worked super hard. But had an absolute nightmare with disposal. Continually turned it over.
Cerra couldn't control Daicos. Has been much quieter this year.
Durdin and Fantasia were invisible.
Charlie is a great player and was pretty handy again. But I wish he was more competitive in one-on-ones. He either marks it or allows his opposition to. He needs to halve contests like Harry does. And he never tackles.

I would have thought you answered your own question. We're slower than most teams. We struggle to control teams on transition. So the MC have decided again that we can't afford to play Cripps, Hewitt and Kennedy in the same midfield.

Thanks. That's a useful stat to see. So opposition bursting away from our slow midfielders was the difference.

Yes we got them at the back a few times by kicking quickly in the forward line however Harry kicking so quickly with 2 minutes on the clock was dumb. Scores level, must be smarter than that. Early in the year the players and club were talking about how they trained for the close games. We failed against Adelaide and again against the Pies. Hold the ball, count down the clock and then get it in close to the goals after all we only needed a point. H still played a good game however with the scores level even 2 minutes on the clock we needed to be smarter.

Desperately need some other avenues for goals and better entries. I admire forwards that get a free run to mark the ball, it seems H and Charlie need to take strong contested mark.

Harry played a great game, won't hang him on that moment. Ran 14kms, that's crazy for a tall forward.

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