Yes Waite will be the key. He reminds me of Fraser Gehrig around the same age. If he can strengthen up (both legs & upper body), & further improve on his kicking, he could be a 70+ goal-kicking full-forward.

And Synbad, I was never expecting you'd admit you were wrong re: Michael Hurley. That would be too emotionally intelligent of you wouldn't it? Just another example of how you often get things incredibly WRONG!!!

I reckon Carlton take the punt on the big bastard giant Warnock

Warnock must be fit enough now to rotate with Hammer and leave Kruzer in Forwardline, which would make things a lot harder for teams to drop back on Fev etc.

We get smashed every week in the ruck, we cant go that far without a good tap ruckman. We smashed Geelong in the clearences because we had better ruckmen then geelongs ruckman. Im sick of seeing other teams always get first hands on the ball and that is because we dont have a good ruckman that can tap it.

Take a chance of Warnock, got nothing to lose.

But how would Hurley prove me wrong... ????....

Surely he has to play 10 seasons first... and then we can come back to judge it???

Whoi will ever forget Hawkins first few games?

Or Nick Hollands?Rising star champ...

Hes a big boy... but he is slow.. and right now he is flying under radars....

Remember i did call Hawkins pretty early... when some were having wet dreams "Number 1 pick .. " .. "better than Gibbs".. blah blah....

Heres another one for you... in that genre.... Lance Whitnall... remember his first few games???... even 3 or 4 seasons???


Think youre premature...

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Synbad could be right

If your not an athlete these days , you wont last long.

Its another reason why cloke isn't in the team, too slow. If he was quicker, could jump higher and get hitouts, he would be in Carltons best 22.

I've been hearing some comments that the Carlton players aren't working hard enough on defense and they're all one way traffic. I think this is only half true, one team could spend as much energy as the opponent, but the perception of how hard they worked depends on how they used it. We rely on goals kicked from a wide range of players (Murphy, Gibbs, Judd, Simpson, Carrazzo and Stevens all have 10 or more goals), midfielders, pretty much anyone who can catch their opponent out. You would think most of these goal opportunities come on the run and not from marks. Obviously they take that gamble running forward and if it doesn't pay off you're going to have to run the length the field to fulfill your defensive duties. Is it physically possible to do all this?

Kick inside 50, take a mark and rest for 45 seconds. 45 seconds is a lifetime in the world of elite running...
A structured and settled forward set up can relieve the the responsibilities of others to kick goals. A damning statistic I found out and will share is our marks inside 50, Fev is on 103, Betts is 21, Cloke is 12, Houlihan 11, Bryce Gibbs 10. We have marked inside 50 264 times while 5 players have marked inside 50 10 or more times (League worst). Compare that to the top five sides:

St Kilda (Marks inside 50 (323) and players have marked inside 50 10 or more times (6))
Riewoldt (98)
Kosi (66)
Milne (37)
Schneider (16)
Gardiner (13)

Geelong (377 and 10)
Mooney (84)
Hawkins (50)
Johnson (45)
Chapman (28)
Stokes (26)

Footscray (301 and 10)
Hill (43)
Johnson (37)
Aker (34)
Hahn (25)
Welsh (23)

Collingwood (344 and 10)
Anthony (64)
Medhurst (37)
Cloke (36)
Lockyer (24)
Davis (21)

Adelaide (295 and 9)
Tippett (59)
Porplyzia (41)
Knights (33)
Walker (31)
Dangerfield (23)

I believe our forward set up is affecting other parts of the ground and this has to do with player stamina and positioning.

Comparing an organized structure in Adelaide to us...

Midfielders Chipping in
Players know they have to follow the ball going forward because if Fev isn't open or a mark hasn't been taken they have to be there picking up loose balls or getting on the end of handballs for a scoring opportunity to eventuate. We've scored plenty doing this and and won games because of this. As we don’t have a lot of options up forward, we are asking other players to contribute to the forward part of the ground. (Midfield energy levels –1)

Defensive Zones
With the zone, the opposition aren't following these “bail out forwards” (apart from taggers) from point to point, their set up shifts and they are all sharing the workload and once they win the ball back they have all the energy they need to spread the ground and find the best target up field, looking for a marking option. (Opposition Midfield energy levels Neutral)

Frontal pressure and forward thrusts that don’t eventuate
Players are told to keep the ball inside 50 with frontal pressure, so if we lose possession in our forward half, these players involved in the forward thrusts have to expel additional energy trying to create a turnover. Players could be out of position and are forced to shuffle back into position if not immediately then eventually. If you run an extra 50 meters, that’s 100 meters up and back. You can completely wipe that out by finding a target up forward. (Midfield Energy levels are now –2)

Opposition marks
Of course if a mark is made inside 50, players can rest and set up across the ground and get ready to defend, if a behind is scored, there is no shuffling back to position after a missed opportunity of trying to kick a goal in play. Less risk, less energy. (Opposition Midfield energy levels +1)

It's either we don't have the pieces to play the marking game and Ratts is making the most of what he's got or he's trying to revolutionize football. Right now it's obvious Adelaide have that plan covered, they are known for figuring out how best to tackle the capabilities of their own squad and after the Carlton game, it seems they know Carlton's player capabilities don't include running back and forth without raising a sweat.

That is so true

Some great comments, good stats "samblueboy".

It should be no surprise that one of our best games against Geelong was when Setatnta held his marks, created an option other than Fev, allowed our midfield to sit higher to protect our defence.

Going into the game against Adelaide, I knew the game would be won through the midfield. If we didn't use it wisely our backs would be in trouble (no Jamison, Waite, Austin!!!). It meant that our forward setup changed leaving Fev as the key target.

Like many, do see value in selecting another ruck, would prefer Warnock over Jacobs only due to Mitch Clarkes athletic ability. This should allow Kreuser to sit along side Fev, with Betts and Gartlet generating the forward pressure, along with the Wiggler being hit up as the midsized CHF.

Also very important to select Bentick, the extractor to control the clearances.

Need a little luck against the Lions, we have had two relatively easy games leading into the finals. We should be physically Ok, considering we have lost 5 players for the remainder of the year!!

KOUTA read the post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i did say the first three picks should be key forwards/medium forwards. when does a key forward mean a tall forward????? betts is a key forward is he tall???
thanks for telling that rohan is not a tall forward!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
do we need defenders?
do we need mids?
do we need rucks?
or do we need KEY forwards???? rohan/talia/panos
its clear we only have fev up front and we need others to help out.

I agree with Synbad. What Hurley has achieved so far this season is no different to what Lance Whitnall did for us as a 17 or 18 year old.

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There's a bit of talk around the traps that Chris Tarrant is looking to coming back home. Should we look at him as a KPP option? Nothing wrong with topping up when the window is about to open. We all remember the names Spalding, Clape, Rice and Pearce. Not forgetting Hogg and Manton. All played in our 1995 premiership win. Not everyone has to be a worldbeater to be part of a premiership team. It's all about team balance.

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Yes he's worth a look - but there would be a few other clubs intersted as well. If Freo are prepared to trade, they'll take whoever offers the best deal. Given he's about to turn 29yo, is he worth a mid-late 2nd round pick? Probably not. It might sound crazy but if we could get Tarrant for our 3rd round pick, a 100% fit Russell Robertson for free in the uncontracted players draft, I reckon our premiership window is wide open for 2010.

Wouldn't you say Hurley is more J Brown pace than L Whitnall pace?

Can't compare Hurley's footy maturity and smarts to Hawkins

Youre dreaming.

Brown huge tank and is 196cms not 191 cms..and a massive tank...
Riewoldt huge tank and athletic 196 cms not 191 cms.
Fevola 191 cms but has speed.
Bradshaw 191 cmish but has speed.
Pavlich 192 cmish with speed.
Kozi ... not faast but 197 cms...


Hurley... no real tank.. no real speed and 191 ish....but he is a nice kick.......thats his best asset..


He might be abit faster than Lance was.. but the game is faster than when Lance was around...and getting faster all the time...

Though they were both around 190/191 cm and hoping to play KP without a naturally big motor or any genuine height...

Hurley hasnt been properly AFL tested yet... and he has an AFL ready body.. (much like Lance did)

Where is he going to find his improvement? Pace? Jump? bigger??Hes a man child...


Like i said.. compare Yarran and Hurley later on in their careers not now...


One thing is for sure we have plenty of Key position footballers around that height and even taller...

Pass

Get something else...

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Great post but you missed something re Bradshaw that really sets him apart - Strength - really can out muscle opponents.

Hurley is strong too.. but he isnt as dynamic as Bradshaw...

Look I cant see what Hurley would give us that Austin wont.. theyre not exactly the same but they will be playing similar roles.

The thing with Hurley is he is already a big kid... but without the extra natural tank.. the extra height and the extra speed.. he is what he is and will be what he is...

Austin is more mobile and slightly taller...

You need mobility in todays game... you can still be a good player without it... but you will get expolited for pace in this game that is perpetually getting faster and faster..... and if you dont have the extra height to make up for it... well its harder..

But cant compare hurley to Brown... unless you were one of those comparing Hawkins to a young Lockett...3 years ago... and the "should have been the number 1 pick in the draft"

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Hurley will be a gun and I would have him in my team ahead of a lot of others in our team.

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Hurley will be fine. The more 195cm running machines that are put on him the better it will suit him because he understands the game and he knows how to exploit his opposition be it forward or in defence. Out bodying Reiwoldt is a great example; he nudged him as he was off balance elevating for the mark. Steven Browne could have shifted Reiwoldt with a nudge that well timed, but I can't think of a key defender on our list who would have done anything other than let Reiwoldt climb on top of them while they went for the punch. There's space in the game for all athletic types provided they can do their job somewhere on the ground.

I dont know why people keep saying we have enough KPP to play forward.

Fact is we dont. If Fev went down we are stuffed.

People mentioning the following:

Austin (not being groomed forward)
Setanta (not smart enough)

Everyone else has failed. (Cloke, wiggins(give me a break))

Only possibility is Kreuzer and maybe Waite next year.

Nothing else.

So we need to groom a new full forward (or a couple) fast.

We are too Fev reliant. On Saturday, a few times yarran was alone, yet they still went to Fev. They have no confidence in anyone else and there is nothing better than kicking the ball to a big strong forward.

We only have 1 at the moment. So stop kidding yourselves.

QFMFT.

Spot. On.

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I agree completely- I got very nervous when fev went down briefly on Saturday. Love him or hate him our team currently revolves around him. We were counting on Kennedy, yet we have not found a replacement for Josh. Developing a key forward will take time, but none of our current options are quite right. If fev and Waite had both done their knees we would be finishing around 13th.