What's Buckleys coaching experience?
Surely we're not suggesting we get rid of an inexperienced coach to hire another one?

_________________
Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

I still find it interesting that Sinners refuses to mention just one coach he would prefer to Ratten.

_________________
TC suffers from the social media illness - the death of respect and constructive discourse by keyboard.

mikky... You find my ideas about going through a proper process for the best possible coach more interesting than just appointing Ratten out of obscurity??

Really???

How so????

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

What was the process for hiring Ratts ? I keep asking and it keeps going silent. Let me know each step. No rumours either. Just fact. Not stuff from the papers or a friend told you .None of that. I want to know each step. Give me a timeline. Maybe some quotes from those involved. Someone please give me something! All i know is interviews with Ratts, Bond and Mckenna and meetings with Mathews and Voss.

Please no rants about what 'you' think happened.

There was no process... he always had the job...
He was hired against Pagans wishes to sit in the box next to him... till the time was right...
He had it all along...
(Well there was a moment there when Voss looked semi interested ... cos he had the charisma we thought we needed...) when he was gone... it was Ratts....
No process...

As a matter of fact.... Ratts said he would have to look elsewhere if we didnt hand it over to him quickly.... (As if)

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Righto, some of us get it: you wouldn't pick a name until you have put them through the ringer.

What's your process, roughly speaking?

Do you have an initial list of names?

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

Im pretty sure were in a very professional field.... yeah???

And in a very professional field there are processes and people who can make better choices than i could.. or even Sticks and Brown ... really!!.. there are....

cos if Sticks and Brown and Gleeson were really really really professional... we wouldnt have been shit for this long...

following???

and we have been really really really shit for a period of time none of us want to have ever experienced because we havent been doing alot of things right...

we havent embraced change...

we didnt embrace the salary cap....
we didnt embrace the draft...
it does seem like we havent embraced modern day devlopment and coaching trends...

.. and we surely havent embraced coaching appointments.. (thinking pagan and ratts here)


now.. we are not only supposed to be following modern professional trends like everybody else but... if you wanna go one step forward.. we should be initiating ideas that pther clubs should want to follow ...


... instead we have this 1980s VFL view of the world.... slowly slowly we change... screaming and scracthing cos were forced to... but were always behind everybody else... because our success is now our baggage... our arrogance is a ball and chain...

and instead of looking back at what others in the past initiated for our success and blueprinting and plagarising their stuff.. we need people who can look into the future and be smarter than everybody else..


i want to know we have the best man possible for the job.

A guy who hasnt been an assistant coach in 4 years and is coaching second division suburban grade is not the answer....trust me!!!.... i know... cos im not super dumb to think thats possible...

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Its really unprofessional for a club to make public how they go about appointing a coach. The biggest soccer clubs in the world will never openly discuss it. All you would hear in the news is the clubs decision to name the new coach. And the reasons are obvious. Just look at whats happening with North and Buckley right now. Its become a circus.
Besides, you could have the most rigorous process and the coach could still fail. SO having a process doesn't mean shit.

The way I see it, we took a gamble on a guy who did well with the Demons midfield, went back to a lower level to have a look at running things from the ground up, and took that philosophy on board with his existing knowledge. We also had a team where the strength looked to be coming through in the middle. Good fit in a rough sense.

We then took him on as an assistant, and then he got a trial run as a caretaker. We then tapped a few others on the shoulder, probably put a few calls in to people who were tied to existing deals and took a look at what we could get. THEN we selected Ratts.

I wouldn't describe it as an exhaustive process, but I'm struggling to think of one that ever has been. Essendon* wound up getting their VFL coach. St Kilda had Robert Walls on a 'panel of experts'. Sydney got its favourite son. Collingwood are chasing their favourite son. Richmond will probably wind up with Jade and then surround him with experience.

Head coaches aren't players or lower level staff or other football department people. It takes a lot more than a bit of flash or the right combination of draft picks to get them through the door. You need to see what they can do for you and agree with it, and they need to see what they'll be working with and agree with it. Anything less and it's doomed to failure, of course that doesn't prevent a coach from coming through the door for all the wrong reasons (Pagan with us, Blight with the Saints, Terry at Richmond).

A bad fit for a coach at a club that isn't willing to go with his vision can see him out of a job and with no prospects very quickly.

But back to my actual questions, because if you don't have even a few dot points resembling a plan then all you're doing is telling us the obvious: that we should be clinical and thorough. That's pretty obvious, and there's a myriad of reasons for why that may not appear to have been the case.

Point is we've got Ratts, we're heading towards finals; he's not going to get the sack mid-season.

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

'

Listen.... have a process >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have no process

No matter what it is in life....


Ump.... They dont have a process in Europe cos........ they will sack him in 4 weeks at a drop pf a hat... and pay him his 10 million dollars....

Now if you want to compare it to European soccer.... which clubb would Ratts survive with after his 2 years and 1 game????

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

jimmae if you wanna gamble go to the dogs...

dont gamble with a list of 40 plus footballers and 40,000 members.. and 400,000 supporters or whatever it is...

this is the big time.. do things properly... if you cant youre not taking care of business.

Ratts was not the best man for the job.

He isnt 2 years and 1 game later...

We are not a club that wants to remain mediocre...

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Rats won't be going anywhere soon but I am actually quite interested to see what happens at the end of the year and what if any changes are made at the club in terms. St Kilda made the prelim last year and I suppose could have sat back and said everything is ok but they decided to poach Tudor from Geelong.
I wonder what we will do?

We gambled on him as an assistant...

_________________
29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

the truth is we got alot of knockbacks from the coaches we really wanted ... this was even with Pratt dangling the carrott ... this was pre judd days so things would be different now.

Ratten with a host of inexperienced coaches around him was not a good mix given how far back we started from ... the club should have been smarter and maybe got for example a Neale Daniher as an assistant.

The development has been slow but in some cases it cannot be helped. For example Sean Hampson ... we all know big guys take longer but it takes even longer when you never grew up as a kid with a footy in your hands. In some cases it has been poor recruiting ... if a player can't kick at 18, he won't be kicking at 28.

If you had to ask who I would prefer to coach us I would lean towards Leigh Matthews. Coached two different teams and had success. He didn't waste the talent he had at Brisbane Lions and he coached a team with little talent in Collingwood to a premiership.

dadadadada

We didnt get knock backs... how would anyone knock us back if swann didnt???

money....!!!!

there is a price for everything....and everything has a price

but we didnt go hard...

and everybody knew the outcome...

there were a couple of patsies that were allowed a look in for the sake of openess.. but everybody knew.... most people arent fools...

coaches wont enter a race they have no chance of winning....

so we got ratts... and his merry band of amateurs...

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Getting a CEO and getting a coach are two different things. The coaches we tried to get all won a premiership this decade and the other had never coached. As the saying goes when you are on a good thing, stick to it.

You can be the CEO of a football club that sits near or on the bottom and nobody puts two and two together ... with coaching it is different ... everybody perceives a poor peforming team as being poorly coached. 99% of the football public could not name the 16 CEO's of the club's.

This club still operates as if its in the eighties.

Sticks only idea about success is that its bought.

The only time it's defensible to not have a drawn out process is if there is an outstanding coach at another club that is in demand or isn't keen to burn his bridges at his current club by going through a series of interviews.

Even then, external consultants should be engaged to look at the landscape without prejudice before approaching the "big name" And even then it's a higher risk because the next Clarkson or Lyon isn't on the radar.

Ratten in no way filled the criteria of in demand, gun, big name, big time coach. He should have had to go through the wringer along with a bunch of others.

If it were possible to get an outside group to assess the likes of Malthouse, Buckley and Laidley now, I'd be all for it. Don't know if it's feasible given the industry's propensity for leaking. Unfortunately, we're in the position where, if the club want a big name coach, they have to either: a) guess that Big Name is the right man, and approach him on the quiet, or b) ascertain that more than one big name is keen and available to meet with the public's knowledge (unlikely), and sack the current coach while the season is still on (impossible while finals are probable).

Obviously then, unless you're in the market for a young, fresh coach (I doubt we are) you really have to be willing to bypass rigorous process, which is risky (see Blight at St Kilda, Pagan at Carlton). This probably has something to do with why clubs are going for younger coaches - it's actually safer in a bureaucratic / corporate and PR sense.

All this makes me wonder whether we wouldn't be better off if we had the Rugby League model of current coaches negotiating with different clubs during the season relatively openly, and announcing mid-season they're leaving. At least then clubs might be able to talk to all options. You might end up with a better coached comp - or you might end up with a bunch of conservative old coaches with a lack of fresh ideas.

Do we have a game plan?
What is it?
If our supposed game plan exists, Where Is Plan B or Plan C if Plan A isn't working?

Agree 100%.

To make any organization or business successful, all decisions need to be made in a non-biased and professional manner. A full process needs to be made and followed. People can't be hired because of friendships (e.g. Ratten as coach because he was an ex-teammate of Kernahan).

When Ratten was hired there wasn't an independant process, like the Hawthorn and St.Kilda process for Clarkson and Lyon respectively.

Kernahan's comments last year or the year before, when he said; "We are Carlton, F*** the rest", show's that the 80's style arrogance under the Elliot rein still exists.

We need to make decision's in a professional and non-arrogant manner, rather than an arrogant manner and non-professional manner, by hiring ex-teammates.